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Offlinepaddo
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U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever...
    #3009259 - 08/16/04 04:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

What do guys think....


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009265 - 08/16/04 04:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i think it may be a bit of a stretch


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Anonymous

Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009274 - 08/16/04 04:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:smirk:


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009323 - 08/16/04 04:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:yawn:

have you been here before?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinepaddo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3009338 - 08/16/04 04:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yes i have....


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009349 - 08/16/04 04:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

how long


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinepaddo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3009363 - 08/16/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

For 6 months, but i dont know what this has to do with the topic title....


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009370 - 08/16/04 04:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I just figured if you think we're facist you'd have a few examples of your experiences, since I've been here 33 years I haven't seen much of it, enlighten us with your knowledge of the United States.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinepaddo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3009385 - 08/16/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

c'mon, open you eyes....
1/3 of all people in detention worldwide is incarcerated in the u.s. only....

Thats one for ya


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009394 - 08/16/04 04:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

that's your example? I figure you'd of learned a little more than that in 6 months. I'm all for locking up people who harm others. If you're talking about our drug laws, i'm with ya, but that's not even close to facism. Unfortunatly a majority (sad to say) don't support legalizing drugs.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (08/17/04 06:51 AM)


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Offlinepaddo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3009403 - 08/16/04 04:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I dont have to spend one day in de u.s to know that...

And what about all the so called wars and conflicts the U.S. had now and in the past...(For defending human rights world wide...Yeah wright)


Edited by paddo (08/16/04 04:41 PM)


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009410 - 08/16/04 04:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

from the Cambridge Dictionary:

fascism
noun [U]
a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control of social and economic life, and extreme pride in country and race, with no expression of political disagreement allowed


US = Fascist? No, but I do think the state shows its fascist tendecies now and again.


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Offlinepaddo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: Vvellum]
    #3009430 - 08/16/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
from the Cambridge Dictionary:

fascism
noun [U]
a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control of social and economic life, and extreme pride in country and race, with no expression of political disagreement allowed


Well thats my defeniton of facism to yes...
And its al aplyable to the U.S.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: Vvellum]
    #3009605 - 08/16/04 05:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

There are some elements there...
Quote:

bi0 said:
from the Cambridge Dictionary:

fascism
noun
a political system based on a very powerful leader,



this one isn't actually present, the system is much more diffuse. There's obviously a ruling class and a ruling principle (money), but no personified strong and permanent leader. Coming up, maybe? Personally, I don't think so, it's proven inefficient, they wouldn't make such a mistake again.
Quote:

state control of social and economic life,


One just has to admit this is increasing. Nothing to explain about social control, there've been many threads about it.
As to economic control, there's nothing like a centrally planned economy, but there are ways of control that are economical. One could easily argue that key economic sectors (energy, pharmaceutics, armament, etc) are permanently represented at the highest levels of power. With this administration it just goes without saying, but as long as there's no restriction and control of industrial funding of political parties, it's going to remain the same, even if it's sometimes more subtle than right now.
In fact, it's not the state that controls the economy, it's the other way around. But then, some people would argue in favor of that. :shake:
Quote:

and extreme pride in country and race,


Well of course there's nothing like an American race (the arms race, maybe?  :grin:), but the Americans make up with extreme nationalism and patriotism. Really, few countries match the present American level of nationalism.
Quote:

with no expression of political disagreement allowed


This one's coming up fast (see: social control). Of course, one incident doesn't make a system, but when Moore reports about a guy who had the FBI on his doorstep for casually saying the real terrorist is the Bush administration, I think it's time for dissenters to move the hell out or hit the closet.

So yes, there definitely is some fascism in there, but in a very new dress. I think the problem is people lack imagination to label things, they always refer to the past, while reality is constantly evolving and repressive systems are constantly refining themselves and putting on more clever disguises. Why call it fascism, when it's just brand new American imperialism?

One day, if there are still people around, the Americans among them will feel like Nazi Germany after WWII: extremely ashamed and empty. :sad:


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009641 - 08/16/04 05:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The US isn't even close to facism. Our leaders are gone every 4 or 8 years,

"state control of social and economic life"

The last I knew we were a capitalis society

Quote:

nd extreme pride in country and race




I find nothing wrong with having pride in a country but as far as a race, we are very integrated. Try being a different religion in a majority of countries and see how far you get.

Quote:

with no expression of political disagreement allowed




we wouldn't be having this discussion if this were true.

I think you know very little about our country from your responses. Do we make mistakes? Sure. Are we Facist? Absolutly not.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009655 - 08/16/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

If there was anything in the world that could make me a right winger, it'd be the number of looney lefties that think America is facist or that Bush is like Hitler. Then again.. democrats get called commies alot.

Taking political moderates and comparing them to extremes is fun, but pointless...


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Anonymous

Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009681 - 08/16/04 05:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato",

"Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."

-Benito Mussolini

that is fascism.


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Anonymous

Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: ]
    #3009688 - 08/16/04 05:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"As a political science, the philosophical pretext to the literal fascism of the historical Italian type believes the state's nature is superior to that of the sum of the individual's comprising it, and that they exist for the state rather than the state existing to serve them. The resources individuals provide from participating in the community are conceived as a productive duty of individual progress serving an entity greater than the sum of its parts. Therefore all individual's business is the state's business, the state's existence is the sole duty of the individual. In its Corporativist model of totalitarian but private management the various functions of the state were trades conceived as individualized entities making that state, and that it is in the state's interest to oversee them for that reason, but not direct them or make them public by the rationale that such functioning in government hands undermines the development of what the state is. Private activity is in a sense contracted to the state so that the state may suspend the infrastructure of any entity in accord to their usefulness and direction, or health to the state."


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3009737 - 08/16/04 05:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The only facist (and there could be more) that have poked their heads up in the last 50 years or so has been European countries....hmmph. I wonder if there's a pattern?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: U.S. biggest facist country of the world, ever... [Re: paddo]
    #3010159 - 08/16/04 07:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism, because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
[benito mussolini]




the fact that big oil is sending us to war shows the extent of this condition in bushs' amerikkka...and the specifics of the "merger"..ie whether the govt or the corporations is "on top"..dont matter...


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