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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Job Outsourcing
    #3008536 - 08/16/04 12:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

OUTSOURCING OF
JOBS REACHES THE PRESIDENT

by Staff Reporter Melynda Jill

Washington DC - Congress today announced that the Office of President
of the United States of America will be outsourced to overseas interests
as of June 30th, the end of this fiscal year. The move is being made to
save not only a significant portion of the President's $400K yearly
salary, but also a record $521 billion in deficit expenditures and
related overhead.

"We believe this is a wise move financially. The cost savings should be
significant," stated Congressman Thomas Reynolds (R-Wash). Reynolds,
with the aid of the GAO (the General Accounting Office), has studied
outsourcing of American jobs extensively. "We cannot expect to remain
competitive on the world stage with the current level of cash outlay,"
Reynolds noted.

Mr. Bush was informed by email this morning of his termination.
Preparations for the job move have been underway for some time. Sanji
Gurvinder Singh of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India will be assuming
the Office of President of the United States as of July 1.

Mr. Singh was born in the United States while his Indian parents were
vacationing at Niagara Falls, thus making him eligible for the
position.
He will receive a salary of $320 (USD) a month but with no health
coverage or other benefits. It is believed that Mr. Singh will be able
to handle his job responsibilities without support staff. Due to the
time difference between the US and India, he will be working primarily
at night, when few offices of the US Government will be open.

"Working nights will allow me to keep my day job at the American
Express
call center," stated Mr. Singh in an exclusive interview. "I am excited
about this position. I always hoped I would be President someday."

A Congressional Spokesperson noted that while Mr. Singh may not be
fully
aware of all the issues involved in the office of President, this
should
not be a problem. Mr. Singh will rely upon a script tree that will
enable him to respond effectively to most topics of concern. Using this
tree, he can address common concerns without having to understand the
underlying issues at all.

"We know these scripting tools work," stated the Spokesperson. "Mr.
Bush
has used them successfully for years."

Mr. Bush will receive health coverage, expenses, and salary until his
final day of employment. Following a two week waiting period, he will
be
eligible for $240 dollars a week unemployment for 13 weeks.
Unfortunately he will not be eligible for Medicaid as his unemployment
benefits will exceed the allowed limit.

Mr. Bush has been provided the outplacement services of Manpower, Inc.
to help him write a resume and prepare for his upcoming job transition.
According to Manpower, Mr. Bush may have difficulties in securing a new
position due to limited practical work experience. A possibility is
re-enlistment in the Army National Guard. Should he choose this option,
he would likely be stationed in Iraq, a country he has visited. "I've
been there, I know all about Iraq," stated Mr. Bush, who gained
invaluable knowledge of the country in a visit to the Baghdad Airport
nonsmoking terminal and gift shop.

Sources in Baghdad and Falluja say Mr. Bush would receive a warm
reception from local Iraqis. They have asked to be provided with
details
of his arrival so that they might arrange an appropriate welcome.
Congress continues to explore other outsourcing possibilities including
that of Vice President and most Cabinet positions.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: silversoul7]
    #3008788 - 08/16/04 01:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: Phred]
    #3010224 - 08/16/04 08:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Gee, more crybaby IT geniuses. They were sooooo last century. It must be harsh when you discover that you're not as indispensible as you thought. Well, at least they found out at a young enough age that they can get restaurant manager jobs.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3010300 - 08/16/04 08:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

why so bitter, chum?

The companies who are outsourcing IT pros are also raising prices while reducing wages.. Hmmm. Theyre certainly not putting the excess into R&D, besides which, I'd prefer to have my potential future job inside my country. Not only is outsourcing bad for our economy, but it promotes fragmenting IT professionals into factory laborers...

Not that I have anything against factory laborers, seeing as how I currently am one for a little while. But IT will simply not be *good* taking that approach.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: vampirism]
    #3010397 - 08/16/04 09:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Outsourcing is good for the economy of everyone who's job is not outsourced. Are you saying that the companies outsourcing jobs are also colluding to raise prices? Or are the prices rising IN SPITE OF outsourcing and would rise more (prices of what, exactly, are you referring to). IT "professionals?" Anybody who gets paid is a professional. At the age of 12 I was a professional landscaper (I mowed lawns). Now that job has been outsourced to Latin American businessmen. Message to unemployed IT "professionals"; find another career. You are having trouble being employed because you pursued training in a field that was very popular (the training, not the field), the business was somewhat of a sham (see price/earnings ratios of infinity) and, frankly, it wasn't that tough, apparently, if any third world country can produce milions of workers in such a short period of time who can adequately do the job. Don't bother whining about how they do such a shitty job, I haven't noticed any more complaints than before. If it costs the companies business then they will change back. I wouldn't hold my breath. Try construction, it's booming and not many youngsters are choosing it. People will always need houses. IT "professionals" are just not as important as they think they are.


--------------------


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: vampirism]
    #3010420 - 08/16/04 09:23 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The 'Exporting Jobs' Scam

by Harry Browne

March 13, 2004

The burning issue of the day is the "exporting of jobs" to foreign countries by corporations.

As the prevailing wisdom would have it, greedy corporations are taking advantage of lower wages in foreign countries ? taking jobs away from Americans and giving those jobs to foreigners who will work for much less money.

In other words, American companies make their products overseas and then bring them to America to sell to Americans who were denied jobs producing those wares.

The politicians who are upset about this practice rarely suggest any specific solution; they just promise to put a stop to it. The TV commentators who are exercised about it also are short on solutions; they just seem to enjoy viewing with alarm.

The only concrete solution that's been offered (that I've come across) is the introduction of state laws to require any companies doing business with the state government to produce their products within the U.S.

Economic Illiteracy

Politicians are notoriously economically illiterate. And even when they know what would be the right thing, we don't really expect them to do it.

But we do expect financial and economic reporters and "experts" who appear on television to have some grasp of whatever they're discussing. Thus, when these "experts" join in the chorus of outrage over greedy corporations exporting jobs, it's easy to believe there must be something to the complaint.

But just once I would like to see someone on television ask one of these politicians, reporters, or "experts" the following question:

Since American wages have always been much higher than wages in Thailand, India, Indonesia, and other Asian countries, why weren't American companies exporting jobs to those countries 30 or 40 years ago?

Or:

Since wages in African countries are even lower than those in Asian countries, why aren't American companies exporting jobs to Africa?

Or:

Since wages in America are lower than those in Japan, why don't Japanese companies export jobs to America? Yes, they have factories here that employ Americans, but those plants make products that are sold here. They don't ship the products to Japan to be sold. American companies build factories in foreign countries but don't sell the products there; they bring the products here for sale.

If you think about these questions, you can't help coming to the conclusion that jobs aren't being "exported" because of wage differentials, but rather for some other reason.

Chasing Companies Away

What is the reason?

Most likely, companies are heading overseas because U.S. regulators just won't quit heaping more and more demands on American corporations. . . .

? About the only sure way a company can avoid discrimination suits by government regulators or individuals is to hire by quotas, which certainly isn't the most efficient way to build a workforce.

? EPA officials can make a company's life miserable by demanding changes in the way a product is produced ? changes that conform to government rules but don't make the environment any safer.

? At any time a company might have to make major changes in its facilities to accommodate new rules for dealing with disabled employees or customers.

? In addition to the wages paid to employees, companies must collect and contribute to payroll taxes that grow bigger and bigger over the years.

These are just a few examples of the many regulatory problems companies face. Every little regulation, every demand, every new policy imposed by the government costs money. And at some point, it simply becomes too expensive to continue operating within the United States.

It's interesting that some of the politicians and reformers who have demanded the above impositions on business are the same folks who are condemning the companies that move some of their production facilities offshore.

The Solution

And what solution do they propose to stop the "exporting of jobs"? More government, of course ? which will chase more companies overseas.

If they really want to bring those jobs back, there's a simple way to do it: repeal all the regulatory legislation that's driven companies to export the jobs.

How soon do you think that will happen?

If your answer is "never," you're probably right. So the "exporting jobs" problem will be with us for a long time.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3010444 - 08/16/04 09:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

well I must tell you screw off, as I am a CS major and would like to have a job.

Besides that, what justifies raising prices if the cost of production goes down ?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3010475 - 08/16/04 09:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

One of the biggest burdens on any employer is being forced to act as a tax collector for the government. Endless reports and checks to write to 3 different agencies, at different deadlines. No wonder companies are going toward subcontractors.


--------------------


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: silversoul7]
    #3010539 - 08/16/04 09:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Did anyone besides pinky actually read what I posted? It was just a funny article.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: silversoul7]
    #3010545 - 08/16/04 09:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, it was, but its on a topic people get heated about :p

i wish theyd outsource bush to some asian dude they can fire at any time..


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: silversoul7]
    #3010561 - 08/16/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Did anyone besides pinky actually read what I posted? It was just a funny article.



The artticle is not nearly as funny as some of the responses.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: vampirism]
    #3010573 - 08/16/04 09:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Demand is what justifies raising prices, up until enough of the consumers will cease to pay more that it is unprofitable. Do you think your CS major ENTITLES you to a job? Au contraire, little one. All you get is an opportunity to compete with all the other CS majors for a limited amount of jobs. There are far too many of you out there and your jobs will mostly be low paying because of it. You may have fucked up in your choice of major if you thought it was job training. You're young yet so you have a chance to adjust.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3010589 - 08/16/04 09:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well actually, I'm a little bastard so I already have multiple connections, even before an internship, and, well, those are sort of guarantees in this world.

Besides which, I was making the point that yes, it IS profitable, but is it in the LEAST moral? Well, no.. But hey, money!


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: vampirism]
    #3010650 - 08/16/04 10:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

MORAL?????? What does morality have to do with it???? The only morality I see here is that no one person or group be put above any other except strictly in their ability to compete for a job. Do you think that you, the great Morrowind, should be favored above any Indian who can do your job. You are entitled to nothing my friend. And if money means so little to you because of its inherent immorality, well you can work for minimum wage. Or do you want MORE. The only immorality here might be your use of your "connections" to your own personal advantage, which definitely will come at the expense of someone else, who might possibly be more deserving and may well have a greater need. How would you feel about bumping an equally qualified 30 year old with 2 kids out of his job just because you have better connections? Careful with the M word, junior.


--------------------


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3010670 - 08/16/04 10:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well OK pops,

If I have to choose between working minimum wage because all the jobs are in India, or working a good salary because of connections ( which I wouldnt use if not for the goddamn companies exporting my jobs ), which do you think I would be right for choosing? In that case its not about morality - minimum wage would not be a way of repaying debt from heavy loans. So, I can either starve, or ask someone for a job. Hell of a lot of immorality there, huh?

Instead, it's moral that large US-based companies can export jobs so that management gets even more money and bonuses? Do you have any idea how much software companies fuck the programmers, and promote idiotic CEOs who run the companies into the ground? Here is a secret you are unaware of: members of boards of directors are ALL friends. Cross-company, whatever. They make major decisions which affect MANY people over the results of GOLF GAMES. crissake

And it is immoral that I ask a friend for a job, right. Is it OK that I "take" the job way from the equally qualified 30 year old? Honestly, I wouldn't care if they imported indians to work in America. Whatever, that competition is fine. But when they underpay and overwork programmers in other countries to make some more money, I will NOT support that.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3010853 - 08/16/04 11:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm an IT professional and my job hasn't been exported. But that's what happens when you pursue quality for your customers and choose a niche that is not easily exported. I have had customers who tried outsourcing to a firm with workers in India, they came back because the quality of the product, speed of turn around and responsiveness to their demands was seriously lacking in farming out the work to someone across the globe - we actually save them money because we do a better job and do it faster, with better attention to the needs of the end users.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3012787 - 08/17/04 12:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

>> Outsourcing is good for the economy of everyone who's job is not outsourced.

thats very obviously wrong..since there will be more competition for those jobs from all the ex- IT ppl...the only beneficiaries are the board members...

>> Are you saying that the companies outsourcing jobs are also colluding to raise prices? Or are the prices rising IN SPITE OF outsourcing and would rise more

outsourcing can cause a price to go up even if it actually goes down..when the decline in purchasing power is taken into account...for example..if prices go down 50% while wages go down 75%..then the price has effectively been doubled...

>> IT "professionals?" Anybody who gets paid is a professional. At the age of 12 I was a professional landscaper (I mowed lawns).

*ROTFLMAOTIPIMP* and i suppose that a spatula operator is a "manufacturing job" too...i must confess..ill never be good at neocon logic...


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: silversoul7]
    #3013126 - 08/17/04 01:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Another point to consider is that its not just low wages that attracts companies to outsource, it also a tax dodge.

My crude understanding of this is that multinationals can put profits made outside the US in tax havens such as the Caymen Islands, avoiding any federal tax. Of course with 'modern accountancy methods', profits can be transferred to the overseas operations.

here is an quite interesting article about it:

http://www.populist.com/04.9.oleary.html

ps: I am an IT professional, and outsourcing does not really bother me. Outsourcing works well for people that know exactly what they want, and it happens to be pretty standard. If a client can't write a rock solid specification, which most I work with can't, running an overseas project with vague and shifting requirements is one very expensive nightmare.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: psilomonkey]
    #3014958 - 08/17/04 08:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

So many children to respond to

Morrowind: you raised a morality issue, I didn't think it belonged here but I posed what I thought was a good question about getting a job because of "who you know not what you know." Hey, I got no problem with you looking out for #1, just with you thinking you're anybody else's #1. Seems to be some hipocracy when you complain about others looking out for their #1 when it's not you.

Software companies can fuck programmers because they are "a dime a dozen." If you don't like what they have to offer they can always go get another one. Superstar programmers can write their own ticket but most of you guys are easily replaceable, and it's because there are so many of you. Didn't it ever occur to you guys that the market was being glutted by all you guys who thought it was cool?

Evolving: actually makes my point. If you really do have worth in the job market it will be recognized. The bottom line is the bottom line and Morrowind's paranoia about boardrooms aside that is what pretty much rules all corporations.

Annapurna: your insanity makes it difficult for me to respond to you. I usually avoid your threads because I think they're just too far gone. A professional is someone who is paid. That's it. A burger flipper who gets paid for it is a professional burger flipper. A gynecologist who gets paid for it is a professional gynecologist. As an amateur gynecologist I love your sig.

As to the outsourcing thing your response is disingenuous. Your example only has merit if 75% of the people's jobs are outsourced. Insanity. Are you proposing that we close the borders and not purchase any goods from other nations? If so, then say so. I think IT "professionals" are no more special than textile manufacturing "professionals".

I work in an industry (construction) that is screaming for intelligent people to join. Some of the smartest people I have ever met are master carpenters, plumbers and electricians. If you're smart and ambitious you can own your own company with a minimal financial investment before your thirty. If you're just smart you can make a damn good living doing it and write your own ticket. I never had to kiss anybody's ass because ability gets rewarded and all my employers knew who made them money, which is what ALL employees' responsibility.

Psilomonkey: You're quite right about the tax code fucking businesses in this country. There is no reason why there should be any corporate tax per se at all. The profits which go to the owners should be taxed as income and they should pay property tax on the property they own at exactly the same levels as religious institutions. The extra layer of taxation is a serious handicap to competition for US workers.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Job Outsourcing [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3015111 - 08/17/04 08:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

>> Annapurna: your insanity makes it difficult for me to respond to you. I usually avoid your threads because I think they're just too far gone. A professional is someone who is paid. That's it. A burger flipper who gets paid for it is a professional burger flipper. A gynecologist who gets paid for it is a professional gynecologist. As an amateur gynecologist I love your sig.

oh..so now its up to the neocon twits to lay down the law..and simply dismiss any refutation of their position..however obvious it may be..as "insanity"...but unfortunately for the neocons..in the real world.."spatula operators" are not "manufacturing professionals".. similarly..there is no such thing as an "amature gynecologist" either...

>> As to the outsourcing thing your response is disingenuous. Your example only has merit if 75% of the people's jobs are outsourced. Insanity.

are you trying to tell me that the victims of outsourcing *wont* apply for the remaining jobs (and as such push their wages downward)??...if thats not insane..then i dont know what is...as for my 75% example..anyone but a pompous neocon could tell that it was meant as a metaphorical answer to your ? about companies colluding to raise prices...


Edited by Annapurna1 (08/18/04 05:01 AM)


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