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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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What good is the constitution...
    #3004484 - 08/14/04 03:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

if the government refuses to follow it?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3004563 - 08/14/04 04:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What good are races if people refuse to accept their difference and superiority or inferiority.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: cb9fl]
    #3004579 - 08/14/04 04:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What?!


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 191,500
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3004626 - 08/14/04 04:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
if the government refuses to follow it?




the problem isnt that the government refuses to follow it, it's that the people are failing to make them follow it...


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Invisiblevampirism
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3004631 - 08/14/04 04:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Thats a valid point, but what about the fact that many political leaders can be bought out fairly easily through special interest groups.


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
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Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3004814 - 08/14/04 05:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It's just the inevitabity of this country. The government knows they can get away with breaking the constitution nowadays, and they have no reason to follow it

This is not the America of the revolutionary founding-fathers anymore. Money is valued more than freedom, and security more than liberties

Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance.
-Woodrow Wilson


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: Ravus]
    #3004836 - 08/14/04 06:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Money is valued more than freedom, and security more than liberties




ahh the wonders of capitalism


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: cb9fl]
    #3004895 - 08/14/04 06:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Money is freedom and there are no liberties without security


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3004919 - 08/14/04 06:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Money embodies power and power is the root of all evil.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3005028 - 08/14/04 07:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Money is more often enslavement than freedom to the individual, and to the whole of society is valued more than the individual

Liberties and security are necessary, but liberties should be valued over security, not vice versa. The government poses more threat to the American people's liberties with security than any terrorist group in the Middle East could hope to.

?Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.?
-Ben Franklin


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: Ravus]
    #3005128 - 08/14/04 08:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

lack of money can possibly be considered as limiting of one's freedom but I cannot see how using it can be considered limiting. Do you think I should GIVE you a refrigerator? I realize that people can become overly wrapped up in the pursuit of a dollar but I do not believe that is any more inherent in the nature of the dollar than I believe you can blame obesity on the fact that some food tastes really, really good. You have the freedom to opt out of this society if you wish, there are plenty of wild places left where you will have the freedom to struggle for life's bare necessities if you wish. I suspect, however, that your idea of freedom involves other people supplying you with those necessities so that you can flit about as you wish.

And I say again, without security, there is no liberty. If it wasn't for the police and government, people like you would be owned by people like me


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
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Registered: 11/17/02
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: silversoul7]
    #3005182 - 08/14/04 08:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

people interpret the constitution how they want to read it just like the bible


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3005194 - 08/14/04 08:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You have the freedom to opt out of this society if you wish, there are plenty of wild places left where you will have the freedom to struggle for life's bare necessities if you wish. I suspect, however, that your idea of freedom involves other people supplying you with those necessities so that you can flit about as you wish.




Other people should not supply me. I should however be able to trade the wealth that I produce for the wealth that others produce in an open market. That is all I desire to do.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: z@z.com]
    #3005218 - 08/14/04 08:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What wealth (I think you might better say good or service) do you produce and why do you think you can't trade it on an open market?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: What good is the constitution... *DELETED* [Re: silversoul7]
    #3005241 - 08/14/04 09:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Annapurna1


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Anonymous

Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3005320 - 08/14/04 09:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Wha????


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OfflineLumocolor
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Registered: 08/03/04
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3005322 - 08/14/04 09:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You have the freedom to opt out of this society if you wish, there are plenty of wild places left where you will have the freedom to struggle for life's bare necessities if you wish.



That sounds very Brave New World'ish to me. An extreme way of looking at the situation. We do not have to go back to the stone age in order to obtain freedom. Infact there are many points you could draw to claim that it is no more free than we are now. It would however take a world very different to todays.


Edited by Lumocolor (08/14/04 10:17 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: Lumocolor]
    #3005396 - 08/14/04 10:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

My point is and always has been that the benefits of civilisation come with a price. You don't have to pay it but then you can live a stone age life. There is no tylenol in a cave. Is our current situation perfect? No, of course not, Doctor J is not in charge, but there are a great many foolish pronouncements about the inherent failure of the systems that have evolved that it sometimes needs to be pointed out that you can always go to Alaska and eat bear (or be eaten by....). Go if you wish. I prefer it here and I could probably survive up there, after a short training period. TC Boyle wrote a great book about hippies moving to Alaska called "Drop City" check it out. Most people here have no idea how good they have it.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
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Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3005436 - 08/14/04 10:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Noam Chomsky:

Quote:

Our role, as citizens of a free society, is not to give grades for performance, but to change and improve what we think is wrong.




[url]http://www.chomsky.info/debates/20031126.htm[/ur]


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineLumocolor
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Registered: 08/03/04
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Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: What good is the constitution... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3005443 - 08/14/04 10:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I wasn't so much trying to point out how bad our society is, the jury is still out on that one as far as I'm concerned. More to suggest that you don't need to be so city-or-the-bush about the situation. Just because someone makes a statement expressing there dislike for the current system doesn't mean that the only alternative is to take off into the jungle and eat raw fish all day. Yes I do see were you are coming from, but there is no need to have an enjoy it or shut up mentality when it comes to these topics.


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