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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/17/01
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Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own)
    #3004466 - 08/14/04 03:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Democracy obviously isnt a sure fire way to live. And this value for freedom seems to backfire in the strangest ways.
Now the goverment cant help but cut down some civil liberties in the name of "The war on Terror" and for the sake of protecting the country.

There are many weakneses with democracy. Yes, the freedom we have is great, but how long will it survive?
Can we really compete (for the long run) with other countries that dont give a damn about the rules of war, and keeping track of thier citizens?

More and more, we discover ways that the goverment bends the rules, and sneaks away quietly with passing certain bills to make it easier to protect the country because the only way is to ignore democracy some times.

Can anybody point of a few more down sides to democracy? Any political scientist or joe shmoe can come up with some pretty good observations I'm sure!


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When it comes
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Anonymous

Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3004475 - 08/14/04 03:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

majority rule alone is not a sufficient limit to the scope and scale of government authority.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
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Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3004478 - 08/14/04 03:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

A lot of people seem to confuse democracy and freedom. The majority can be just as tyrannical as a single dictator. Thank God we don't live in a true democracy.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: silversoul7]
    #3004497 - 08/14/04 03:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

no, thank james madison.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3004527 - 08/14/04 03:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Somebody put up a great post about some economics (I think) professor who said that a democracy will collapse when the people realize they can vote themselves almost endless entitlements from the government kitty. The tyranny of the majority is not some nebulous concept. "The people is an ass," Pogo, a long time ago.


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3004574 - 08/14/04 04:12 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

People are mainly ill-informed about things

Smooth-talkers will often win out over well-thought out policies.


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Anonymous

Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3004737 - 08/14/04 05:21 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Somebody put up a great post about some economics (I think) professor who said that a democracy will collapse when the people realize they can vote themselves almost endless entitlements from the government kitty.

a truth that has been known for quite some time.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury".
- Alexander Tytler


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: ]
    #3004754 - 08/14/04 05:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

That's a weakness. Will probably be the fatal one. Oh well, all good things must pass. America will endure for a while longer than it should because of overwhelming might and may actually become an empire. Historians, if there are to be any left, will surely discuss the "Golden Age of America." Right now is a good time to be alive, although I believe there is an old Irish curse that goes "may you live in interesting times." The Irish clearly have no sense of humor, only of tragedy.


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InvisibleAntiMeme
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Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3004905 - 08/14/04 06:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

To reach the top of any system you have to cut corners. Those who don't get left behind. That again means that the real rules of the game often are quite contrary to the stated goals of the system. And that is why all top level politicans are scumbags in my book (they might be great people to socialize with or be aquainted with, that's not what I'm talking about). To get to where they are, they've had to play the game, and they've had to play it well.

As the main goal of any system is to preserve itself (those who don't perish), to reach the top of the system also means modulating your politics to match the staus quo. This means there will never be any radical change in politics within the system when it's first established, it's almost impossible. The difference in politics between the different players at the top level will also be quite neglible (look at Kerry and Bush for example). Ever followed the career path of a politican from young and ideologic to older and homogenized?

The systems are also far too large and complex for any one person to have any kind of oversight. Even for those who work in the business, it's impossible to fully understand what's going on. So how can the individual voter make an insightful decision? (This is an argument for a limited amount of parties, like the de-facto two party system in the US)

To counter these kinds of problems, which are inherent problems with any large systems, I think there has to be a decentralization of power. The US used to have strong states, but as an outsider looking in, it looks as if the federal government has grown much stronger in the last decades. Even state level might be too large for really effective democracies. Of course you will always need some kind of centralized power which ensures basic equality between the regions, but this should also be the sole responsibility of that power.

I don't think we'll ever see antyhing like this in our lifetimes though, and I also think that before we can reach this kind of decentralized democracy there has to be a centralization of power (like what is happening with the EU).

Sorry for rambling.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
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Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3004926 - 08/14/04 06:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The antiwar movement in Vietnam was heavily supported by the people we were fighting. Totalitarian regimes can curtail public scrutiny in their own countries and channel resources to wage a war in public opinion in our open democracy. Some of the people with the Antiwar movement during Vietnam were working hand in hand with the communists, and we didn't do anything to stop it. They succeeded in shaping public opinion, and millions of people were either slaughtered or live in oppression today as a result.

Personally, I think we made a mistake when we let women vote.

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time.'"
-Sir Winston Churchill


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OfflineCrobih
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Registered: 11/04/98
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Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: silversoul7]
    #3004928 - 08/14/04 06:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
A lot of people seem to confuse democracy and freedom. The majority can be just as tyrannical as a single dictator. Thank God we don't live in a true democracy.




Actually, in true democracy people have to take responsibility for their actions, so they do not let stupid things happen this often.


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OfflineTao
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Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
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Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3004989 - 08/14/04 07:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Personally, I think we made a mistake when we let women vote.




:what:


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OfflineSource
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation
Male

Registered: 07/28/03
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Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3005783 - 08/15/04 12:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury".
- Alexander Tytler

...or until a minority of the super rich discover that they can buy the government and steal the public treasury through corporate welfare.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
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Re: Democracy's Weakness List (Please contribute your own) [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3006730 - 08/15/04 10:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Liberal Democracy has two main problems, freedom of press can be turned against the democracy itself and the public can swayed by the press and demagogues. It's no surprise that democracies are the most self-critical types of countries, free speech enables people to speak ill of their government, and even influence the voting electorate.

This is how western nations lose wars: although they have military superiority, far more recources and far better coordination, they can defeat themselves with the press. All a dictator has to do use civilians as human shields and instantly the western press is sending pictures home of carnage caused by their own army and in effect becomming propagandists for the other side which has no representitive government or free press. Ugly pictures discourage the electorate, and when the public is discouraged the nation gives up or caves in, even if all odds are in their favor.


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