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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: vampirism]
    #2999807 - 08/13/04 10:53 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

it has to do with net global warmth, regional temperature doesn't matter.




I know, but many here find the need to tell me how hot it is in their neighborhood as if that's actually evidence.

Quote:

If Global warming is a very real threat, we will be beyond *all* hope within 50 years.




where are you coming up with these stats? 50 years? who told you that? why 50 years and not 40 or 30. This is what I mean. People just assume things based on baseless data.

Quote:

If it is an unreal threat, we'll just have a friendlier environment after prevention.




Prevention? How in the hell can you prevent a natual occurance? (if you answer anything, answer this) With all the technology in the world we can't stop a simple thunder storm. If you're saying we should pollute less or not at all I agree 100%, but this is not what's causing this "fictionous" warming.

Quote:

Do you really want to play russian roulette?




russian roulette? with what? There is absolutly nothing we can do to stop nature. I don't pollute nor support comapnies that do, how am I playing russian roulette?


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999822 - 08/13/04 10:57 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Actually, those ice drillings were for millenia, not centuries.

No-one is denying that nature has an effect on this aswell, but we are making the problem far worse.

Look at this - it's a US government report. You think the US government wants to pressurise people to stop polluting? Of course not, look at the Kyoto protocol.

Global warming could scorch US regions

A government FAQ


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: deafpanda]
    #2999866 - 08/13/04 11:09 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Please don't use the Kyoto protocal to make any example, it was a flawed and not very well thought out plan. Like I've said, we should ALL make the environment cleaner and put businesses that pollute OUR water out of business and not just fine them. With that aside, using global warming (or other catch phrases that tend to mean different things) as a scare tactic gets those who are thinkers a bit in a tizzy. Call it what it is, a anti-polution push. I'd be on board.


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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999890 - 08/13/04 11:18 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Theory? Is global warming a Theory or fact? I agree with how the system works and what affects that system, I'm with you there. It's just that I don't believe that there is enough evidence to say that we are experiencing Global warming. Supply me with some evidence and i'll provide things on the contrary, who do you choose to believe?

Its a theory, but the evidence is mounting up to support it. Here is some of that evidence.

CO2 Levels and global temperature are linked.



CO2 levels are rising faster than ever before, and they started rising when mankind industrialized, and the rate of change trend is upward too.



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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999912 - 08/13/04 11:25 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

What was flawed about the Kyoto protocol?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: psilomonkey]
    #2999924 - 08/13/04 11:30 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

That first graph shows a pattern of naturally fuxuating CO2 levels, it doesn't say anything stunning. The second one, shows a breif period in time but atleast shows a correlation to todays events. Here's my question. Many here have said that Global warming is not local, what were the CO2 stats for the south pole or here in the US. I won't discount the CO2 levels in that graph but what does that tell us? Can one core sample in the N. Pole predict weather worldwide?

Quote:

CO2 levels are rising faster than ever before




I don't see where it says that CO2 levels are increasing higher than ever before. From the first graph it appears that we have the same CO2 levels as 400,000 years agao, why is this? Saying that we have the most CO2 than ever before is contradicted by the first graph, apparantly 125,000 and 325,000 years ago we had higher levels. Anyone care to enlighten me why the CO2 levels were higher?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999960 - 08/13/04 11:49 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Because, as you have pointed out many times, a lot depends on nature. The point is that back then the climate wouldn't have been hospitable. Even though nature changes its climate, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try not to change it ourselves.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999987 - 08/13/04 11:59 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Like I've said, we should ALL make the environment cleaner and put businesses that pollute OUR water out of business and not just fine them.

Careful inny, you're coming off like some damn treehugger.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Xlea321]
    #3000093 - 08/13/04 12:29 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I've always been for a clean environment. I don't know anyone on this site that isn't.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3000099 - 08/13/04 12:31 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I thought you were the guy who used to brag about driving an SUV whenever someone brought up the environment. Must have been someone else.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Xlea321]
    #3000144 - 08/13/04 12:41 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well I have an SUV, a rather nice one thank you very much. It doesn't mean i'm for polution. Give me something that can pull my boat that gets better gas milage and i'll be all over it if the price is right. What was your point anyway?

So what's your position on global "warming"?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3000165 - 08/13/04 12:48 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Ah..but you're not that concerned about the environment to get rid of the SUV?

My position on global warming? I think man is making an enormous contribution to it. Driving SUV's ain't helping much either.

Tony Blair now identifies climate change as "the single most important issue we face as a global community". The main cause of climate change is the production of carbon dioxide. The fastest- growing source of carbon dioxide in Britain is transport: its emissions increased by 50% between 1990 and 2002. Flying accounts for most of this, but another reason is that the market for large 4x4s more than doubled in this period. Every year, 150,000 British people now buy one of these monsters, mostly to drive around our cities.

Officially, the biggest 4x4s can manage 12 or 13 miles to the gallon in urban areas. Unofficially, US journalists found that the Ford Excursion was doing 3.7. Switching from an average car to a big 4x4, the Sierra Club calculates, uses as much extra energy in 12 months as leaving your television on for 28 years.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1254763,00.html


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Xlea321]
    #3000212 - 08/13/04 12:56 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ah..but you're not that concerned about the environment to get rid of the SUV?




nice try Alex, try again.

Quote:

My position on global warming? I think man is making an enormous contribution to it. Driving SUV's ain't helping much either.




I like how the ignorant claim it's SUV's and not other combustion engines. SUV's are described now as an entity.

Quote:

Tony Blair now identifies climate change as "the single most important issue we face as a global community".




WOW, now you agree with Blair? I thought he was the devil's helper?

I'm not arguing the need to cut down, i'm trying to see what people are basing their "facts" on when it concerns global "warming" (apparantly global warming doesn't involve the globe warming at all.). This conversation has switched from temperature rises to and Ice age. So far not one person has made a point based on fact. Hell the two graphs above made my point. Nature dictates climate change, man is pompous if they think they have control over it.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3000273 - 08/13/04 01:05 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

nice try Alex

Gee thanks.

Just wondered whether you ever get a sense of irony sitting in your SUV saying "I'd like a clean environment".

I like how the ignorant claim it's SUV's and not other combustion engines

No-one is claiming that inny. The article says flying is a big factor. It just states the fact that SUV's arn't helping any.

WOW, now you agree with Blair?

You do know that I'm not George Monbiot and didn't write the article don't you?

But yeah I agree with Blair on that. It's just a shame he stays firmly in the pocket of the corporations instead of doing something about it.

Nature dictates climate change, man is pompous if they think they have control over it.

So you honestly believe if there were only a few thousand cavemen in the world today, global warming would still be taking place at the same rate?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Xlea321]
    #3000342 - 08/13/04 01:18 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Just wondered whether you ever get a sense of irony sitting in your SUV saying "I'd like a clean environment".




I wonder if you're thinking of the same thing when you're in an automobile...I'd also like to cut down on CO2 but i don't plan on holding my breath.

Quote:

The article says flying is a big factor. It just states the fact that SUV's arn't helping any.




so is it only planes and SUV's? When you fly do you ever get a sense of irony sitting in your seat saying "I'd like a clean environment"?

Quote:

But yeah I agree with Blair on that. It's just a shame he stays firmly in the pocket of the corporations instead of doing something about it.




he's not my leader, that's your problem to take care of that.

Quote:

So you honestly believe if there were only a few thousand cavemen in the world today, global warming would still be taking place at the same rate?




look at that graph above and get back to me. Why is it that the CO2 levels are higher then then it is today?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3000440 - 08/13/04 01:36 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I wonder if you're thinking of the same thing when you're in an automobile

No, but I wouldn't go out and buy a gas guzzling SUV either. We can all do a little bit can't we.

so is it only planes and SUV's?

Are you saying we should all just go "Fuck it" and not do anything? Can't each of us try and do our bit however small?

look at that graph above and get back to me.

I'm looking at it. It's still not convincing me man has had no effect on global warming.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Xlea321]
    #3000483 - 08/13/04 01:44 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

No, but I wouldn't go out and buy a gas guzzling SUV either. We can all do a little bit can't we.




ofcourse you don't think about the irony because that would make you just as guilty as those you acuse, suggestion: don't throw rocks.

Quote:

Are you saying we should all just go "Fuck it" and not do anything? Can't each of us try and do our bit however small?




not even close to what I said nor meant...Care to comment on the graphs above and the CO2 levels?

Quote:

I'm looking at it. It's still not convincing me man has had no effect on global warming.




feel free to add some facts to this discussion then.  Never during this discussion have I ever implied that we don't pollute nor that it doesn't affect our environment.  My argument is that there has been nothing but opinion and spectulation as to the reasons for global "warming" (which i've learned that is doesn't really mean the globe is warming :rolleyes:)

If you want to discuss what man is doing to the environment through pollution please start a thread, i'd be more then happy to talk about it.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSource
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3000541 - 08/13/04 01:57 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
That first graph shows a pattern of naturally fuxuating CO2 levels, it doesn't say anything stunning. The second one, shows a breif period in time but atleast shows a correlation to todays events. Here's my question. Many here have said that Global warming is not local, what were the CO2 stats for the south pole or here in the US. I won't discount the CO2 levels in that graph but what does that tell us? Can one core sample in the N. Pole predict weather worldwide?

Quote:

CO2 levels are rising faster than ever before




I don't see where it says that CO2 levels are increasing higher than ever before. From the first graph it appears that we have the same CO2 levels as 400,000 years agao, why is this? Saying that we have the most CO2 than ever before is contradicted by the first graph, apparantly 125,000 and 325,000 years ago we had higher levels. Anyone care to enlighten me why the CO2 levels were higher?




Take another look at those graphs with me. Unless I'm wrong, the first graph ends in 1950 at 285ppm. The highest concentration of CO2 occurred about 325,000 years before 1950 at 300ppm.

The second graph goes beyond the timeframe of the first - to approximately the present. In 1900 we matched the previous record of 300ppm. From then on there appears to be a very sharp rise in CO2 to the present at 350 ppm...way above the previous record...and it doesn't look like it's slowing down.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3000597 - 08/13/04 02:09 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Also...The the world's leading atmospheric scientists insist that global warming is real and that it is caused by man.

There are special interst groups whose sole purpose is to try to make it sound as if the jury is still out on this issue. Of course you can guess who gives funding to these groups.

Now let me ask you something, when two sides are saying opposing things would you agree with the experts with little to gain or with non-experts who get rich keeping things status quo?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Source]
    #3000602 - 08/13/04 02:10 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

It is above all other Peaks but as for the steepness of the rise it looks as though it's quite similar to 125, 325 and 220,000 years ago. But remember that that was a core sample taken from one local place and apparantly it has been previously mentioned that the climate will not be the same globally.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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