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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999357 - 08/13/04 08:40 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Global warming is the fundamental thing that will happen but that doesn't mean all parts of the globe are going to become warmer. There will be a net warming but some parts of the globe are going to become colder. Some parts may even stay relatively the same. People talk about Global Warming not climate change because it's warming is more accurate for most people.
I'm not trying to convince you to think differently, Invertigo, cause I know your type is basically only looking out for number one. You can keep believing everything's fine and as long as there's some water in your well I'm sure you will. It's quite a popular attitude.



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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Tao]
    #2999371 - 08/13/04 08:48 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


2) The Ozone layer has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with global change/climate change




As the climate warms the lower atmosphere the part of the atmsophere that contains the ozone layer cools. A cooler stratosphere could inhibit an important mechanism that protects ozone in the upper atmosphere. Thus future global warming could delay the recovery of ozone layer or even enlarge existing holes.

What happens next? Best case: well, there's lots more skin cancer epidemics. Worst case: increasing amounts of ocean phytoplankton are killed, severely damaging the base of the planet's food chain.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: deafpanda]
    #2999441 - 08/13/04 09:20 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Most global warming models predict that extreme weather will become more common




Really? Are those the same models that have been opposed by experts? For every one expert that says that Global warming is a reality there is another that says it's BS, saying the sky is falling does not make it so.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: question_for_joo]
    #2999471 - 08/13/04 09:30 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Global warming is the fundamental thing that will happen but that doesn't mean all parts of the globe are going to become warmer.




wait, so you're saying that global warming is real but it will not affect the globe? Is that correct? What exactly does global WARMING mean then?

Quote:

There will be a net warming but some parts of the globe are going to become colder.




That goes against the greenhouse effect then. I was under the impression that the global warming "scare" would melt the ice caps and the world would flood. Now i'm confused.

Quote:

eople talk about Global Warming not climate change because it's warming is more accurate for most people.




The climate changes naturally all the time, it's not that big of a stretch. What caused the Ice age before and what caused the ice to melt? Man? Industry?...or was it nature?

Quote:

I'm not trying to convince you to think differently, Invertigo, cause I know your type is basically only looking out for number one




People like me question scare tactics (don't pretend that you know me). I don't deny that there is a posibility that there could be global warming but it seems awfully suspicious that the "sky is falling" crowd discounts nature. I'd suggest you go see the video "The greening of planet Earth".

Quote:

You can keep believing everything's fine and as long as there's some water in your well I'm sure you will. It's quite a popular attitude.




and please, continue running around with your head cut off because someone says we're all going to die. It seems that the global warming people never seem to come out in the winter time...hmmpphh.



self portrait?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999482 - 08/13/04 09:32 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

huh? Global warming is just what it means, warming. Are you confusing el nino with global warming?

No I am not, El Nino is thought to be a natural cycle that has been working on a 5 year cycle for ages, however seems to be changing in frequency and nature. Its now reckoned to be running closer to a 3 year cycle.
While a lot of these changes can not be proved to down to global warming, I think it foolish to think that a global change in temperature would have no effect on weather.

energy level in what "system"? What would you base this prediction on? Weather has always been erratic and violent. How does global warming fit in here?

The planet is a thermodynamic system, it is not a closed system. It has solar input, and looses energy by thermal radiation into space. The theory is that, if the composition of the atmosphere changes so that more heat trapped and not lost to space, the overall energy level of the system rises.

EDIT: If you want a demonstration of in increase in thermal energy resulting in a more chaotic system, check out a lava lamp.


Edited by psilomonkey (08/13/04 09:41 AM)


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: question_for_joo]
    #2999494 - 08/13/04 09:36 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

My prediction: We'll see another ice advance before it gets a whole lot warmer.
:snowflake:


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999516 - 08/13/04 09:47 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Far, far, FAR more experts know that climate change is a real threat.

And not all of the world will get hotter - for example, the UK and France will get colder as the gulf stream (a warm current that keeps our climate mild) is pushed south due to melting ice caps.

The climate does change naturally, but it is highly unlikely that it would do that in the forseeable future. If it did, we'd be fucked. THat doesn't negate the problem of man-made warming.

Go and read up on it, please. You'll find that there is a huge scientific consensus on this.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: psilomonkey]
    #2999531 - 08/13/04 09:51 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I think it foolish to think that a global change in temperature would have no effect on weather.




I'm not debating that, that's pretty obvious. What i'm saying is that scare tactics that the global warming" crowd have no credable evidence to back it up their assertion that the earth is warming.

Quote:

The theory is that, if the composition of the atmosphere changes so that more heat trapped and not lost to space, the overall energy level of the system rises.




Theory? Is global warming a Theory or fact? I agree with how the system works and what affects that system, I'm with you there. It's just that I don't believe that there is enough evidence to say that we are experiencing Global warming. Supply me with some evidence and i'll provide things on the contrary, who do you choose to believe?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999532 - 08/13/04 09:51 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Today's News:
Scores killed by Chinese typhoon

A powerful typhoon has struck eastern China, killing at least 115 people.
More than 1,800 others are reported to have been injured after the typhoon hit the coastal city of Wenling, in Zhejiang province.

Officials had already evacuated 415,000 people from coastal areas to escape the storm, which happened at 8pm local time (1200GMT) on Thursday.

"Shop signboards were flying out and hit people's arms and legs like knives," said a doctor in Wenling.


"The wind was really very, very strong and we have rarely seen this," he said.......


Hey no big deal, China's like ten thousand miles away, right Verti!


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: deafpanda]
    #2999558 - 08/13/04 10:00 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
the UK and France will get colder as the gulf stream (a warm current that keeps our climate mild) is pushed south due to melting ice caps.





This is crucial though. Keep in mind what happens when you get volatile temp changes in the Northern Atlantic. There's a good chance that if Greenland melts, the Golf Strem will essentially disappear. That will completely fuck up the ocean conveyor belt. And as a result, it's gonna get a whole lot colder. Worldwide.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: deafpanda]
    #2999573 - 08/13/04 10:05 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Far, far, FAR more experts know that climate change is a real threat.




Noone is debating that climate change is a real threat, the problem is is that many of these climate changes are natural occurances with absolutly no proven link to man.

Quote:

And not all of the world will get hotter - for example, the UK and France will get colder as the gulf stream (a warm current that keeps our climate mild) is pushed south due to melting ice caps.




Is that speculation or fact? This whole assertion that certain parts will get cold and others will not relies ONLY on whether or not there is indeed the Greenhouse Effect (which says that the Earth will rise in temp). It's starting to sound a tad conflicting. A theory that's based on a theory that will onlty happen if another theory is true.

Quote:

The climate does change naturally, but it is highly unlikely that it would do that in the forseeable future




What? Why is it highly unlikly to happen in the future if it has happened before? This is where this argument falls apart. There has been numerous Ice ages that cycle in and out, causing the earth to cool and heat up.

Starting Age

[million years ago]
Geologic Period

1,700 to 2,300 mya
the middle of the Huronian Era in Precambrian time

670 mya
the end of the Proterozoic Era, in Precambrian time

420 mya
the middle of the Paleozoic Era, between the Ordovician and Silurian Periods

290 mya
the late Carboniferous and early Permian Periods, late in the Paleozoic Era

1.7 mya
the Pleistocene Epoch of the Quaternary Period (Cenozoic Era)

Quote:

If it did, we'd be fucked. THat doesn't negate the problem of man-made warming.




Nature dosn't care if we're fucked or not. The problem is that Volcanoes and the Ocean put off more Greenhouse Gasses then all of mankind's industry combined.

Quote:

Go and read up on it, please. You'll find that there is a huge scientific consensus on this.




I have read up on it and that's the reason why i'm opposing these "theories".


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Posts: 16,296
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: question_for_joo]
    #2999592 - 08/13/04 10:12 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

A powerful typhoon has struck eastern China, killing at least 115 people.
More than 1,800 others are reported to have been injured after the typhoon hit the coastal city of Wenling, in Zhejiang province




wow, a typhoon. Did you know that there has never been a year go by since the beginning of record keeping that there hasn't been a typhoon? What about the Hurricain that hit the US in 1906? 8,000 people died.

using this as evidence is not only sad but desperate. I'd suggest you do a little reading on this topic because you are making no sense.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblevampirism
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999600 - 08/13/04 10:13 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

do you know what the problem with ice ages is? We're supposed to be entering one. Have been for 200 years now... Sure doesn't seem colder, I wonder why?

*ahem*


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: vampirism]
    #2999644 - 08/13/04 10:20 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

you apparantly don't live in Michigan. This summer has been pretty cool. Hell it was in the 50's last night.

do you think that an Ice agae happens over night? I'm not implying that we are going into or out of one but all the "evidence" (and i use that term loosly) has been based on pure speculation.

*ahem*


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999652 - 08/13/04 10:21 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
the problem is is that many of these climate changes are natural occurances with absolutly no proven link to man. 




And I doubt there ever will be. Climate change is chaos to a ridiculous extreme. They've got the world's most powerful computer working on it in Japan and it's doing a shit job. So should we just wait around and find out who's right?

Quote:

Is that speculation or fact?  This whole assertion that certain parts will get cold and others will not relies ONLY on whether or not there is indeed the Greenhouse Effect (which says that the Earth will rise in temp).




This actually is fact. They did some ice core drilling in Greenland during the eighties and came up with pretty solid evidence that the Gulf Stream radically changes as Northern Atlantic temp and salinity change.

Quote:

What? Why is it highly unlikly to happen in the future if it has happened before?  This is where this argument falls apart.  There has been numerous Ice ages that cycle in and out, causing the earth to cool and heat up.

Starting Age

[million years ago]
Geologic Period

1,700 to 2,300 mya
the middle of the Huronian Era in Precambrian time

670 mya
the end of the Proterozoic Era, in Precambrian time

420 mya
the middle of the Paleozoic Era, between the Ordovician and Silurian Periods

290 mya
the late Carboniferous and early Permian Periods, late in the Paleozoic Era

1.7 mya
the Pleistocene Epoch of the Quaternary Period (Cenozoic Era)





I agree with you here. But not during any of those periods is there evidence for warming at the rate we're seeing it.


Quote:

The problem is that Volcanoes and the Ocean put off more Greenhouse Gasses then all of mankind's industry combined.




Where's you get this?

Quote:

I have read up on it and that's the reason why i'm opposing these "theories".




Read some more
:cheers:


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999658 - 08/13/04 10:23 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

it has to do with net global warmth, regional temperature doesn't matter.

Consider this: If Global warming is a very real threat, we will be beyond *all* hope within 50 years. If it is an unreal threat, we'll just have a friendlier environment after prevention. Do you really want to play russian roulette?


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: vampirism]
    #2999694 - 08/13/04 10:29 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
do you know what the problem with ice ages is? We're supposed to be entering one. Have been for 200 years now... Sure doesn't seem colder, I wonder why?

*ahem*




What what I've read and been taught, we've been holding one off for about 10,000 years. They just did ice core samples in Antarctica last summer and came up with some crazy shit.

Quote:


If it is an unreal threat, we'll just have a friendlier environment after prevention. Do you really want to play russian roulette?




Well said!


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Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2999733 - 08/13/04 10:37 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The greenhouse effect itself is not debateable. If there was no greenhouse effect, the earth's temperatures would never be above 0.

It is the extent of the greenhouse effect that is debateable.

Past CO2 levels correlate with temperatures to a great extent.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: Gijith]
    #2999752 - 08/13/04 10:40 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

So should we just wait around and find out who's right?




that depends on what you intend to do? Do I think we should pollute less? Sure. I believe we should but using "Global Warming" as the reason why is nothing but a scare tactic.

Quote:

This actually is fact. They did some ice core drilling in Greenland during the eighties and came up with pretty solid evidence that the Gulf Stream radically changes as Northern Atlantic temp and salinity change.





So this has happened before? Naturally ofcourse...right?

Quote:

I agree with you here. But not during any of those periods is there evidence for warming at the rate we're seeing it.




really? how did the caps melt then and how fast was it. The last I heard the average temperature actually fell 1/10th or 1/100th of a degree (i can't remember which one). People here are basing one or two centuries (half of which are shotty stats) to predict what has been happening for 4-5 billion years of existance.

Quote:

Where's you get this?




It's common knowledge that the Oceans give off methane, CO2 and other greenhouse gasses the volcanoes give off sulfur and other toxins into the air. I'd suggest seeing the documentary (they mention the methane in oceans) "the greening of planet earth".

My link apparantly is old but here is one that discusses it (methane). http://www.eces.org/articles/000649.php

Quote:

Read some more




why? noone here has made a valid or factual statistic. I'd suggest looking at the evidence again.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Global warming nothing but pretend communist conspiracy [Re: question_for_joo]
    #2999793 - 08/13/04 10:48 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.ems.org/climate/pentagon_climatechange.pdf

as one of the communist conspirators who happens to live in the northeast...i can already see the ice age scenario happening.. even more so in the northern planes and great lakes...


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