Home | Community | Message Board


Sporeworks
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Tom Ridge tells it like it is
    #2996289 - 08/12/04 05:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Press: ?Mr. Ridge, how do you respond to charges that this security alert is really a scare tactic being used for political purposes by the Bush administration??

Ridge: ?Christ almighty, what is it with you people? You?ve spent a couple of years asking why we didn?t prevent 9/11, calling for an investigation, asking ?how much did Bush know and when did he know it?? You blamed us for something we failed to prevent after eight months in office, and yet to this day you give the Clinton admin a free pass, even though he had eight years?eight fucking years, people?to do something about al Qaeda and didn?t do one goddamned thing.

?You finally get your investigation, the results of which confirm most of what we?d been saying all along, but you don?t want to hear that any more than you wanted to hear about the fact that one of the Democrat commissioners, Jamie Gorelick, was responsible for the so-called ?wall of separation? prohibiting information-sharing between the FBI and CIA, which nearly everyone now acknowledges was one of the biggest problems preventing any effective defense against terrorist networks. You do deign to acknowledge that problem, but the part you originally claimed to be most interested in?who was responsible?is suddenly not so interesting anymore the moment you realized you couldn?t reasonably blame us for it.

?You insist that Condi and Bush must testify publicly to the commission (even though Condi had already testified once), but it doesn?t seem to bother you when Clinton gets to testify behind closed doors. You laud Richard Clarke?s and Joe Wilson?s credibility, but when it?s clearly shown that they?re liars you don?t seem to want to bring it up anymore. You hint at all sorts of sinister skullduggery on our part, but when Sandy Berger openly admits to stealing classified documents for God only knows what reason, you couldn?t care less.

?Meanwhile, al Qaeda continues to plot and scheme, and we all know that these major attacks aren?t something that Osama and a few others cobble together over tea and crumpets on Wednesday afternoon and then perpetrate the following Friday lunch. We go to no little trouble to get what information we have out there in hopes that people will be more alert and perhaps be of some help in their own defense, and also in hopes that al Qaeda will know we?re awake to the threat and will possibly cancel out. And damned if you people don?t find some way to bitch about that.

?You piss and moan about everything we?ve done to deal with the threat?and when you?re not complaining about how little we?re doing about it, you?re complaining that we?re either doing too much, doing the wrong things, or even worse, you try to claim that there isn?t a threat in the first place.

?We go after al Qaeda and its sponsoring government in Afghanistan?and you complain about it. We identify an emerging threat in Saddam?s Iraq?and everybody but you Einsteins and those who still swallow your thin gruel whole knows he was a threat not only to us but to his neighbors in the Middle East; hell, he?d only been shooting at our pilots for ten fucking years, which is apparently not enough to qualify as a threat for you security experts?and you take time out from the last several years? worth of bitching about how awful the sanctions against him are (sanctions which were on the way to collapsing completely, by the way) to complain about the fact that we actually had the temerity to not just identify the threat, but do something about it.

?You still insist that a Democrat, any Democrat, would do a better job of defending the country than we have, but in the meantime there have been no?repeat, no, zip, zero, nada?successful attacks on US soil since 9/11, and we both know that ain?t because of the fine job Clinton did in scaring them off, or because John Kerry spent four months in Vietnam on his way to a career as a professional political nonentity. We free 50 million?that?s 50 with six zeros behind it for you economics-beat reporters?oppressed Muslims and you guys don?t notice anything but a handful of prisoners with panties on their heads and a shitload of illegal combatants in Gitmo getting fat and sloppy from their ?inhuman? bondage.

?You care about the Geneva Conventions?irrelevant in this war because our opponents have certainly neither signed on to it nor abided by it?only when you think you might be able to use it to help pour another bucket of shame and contrition over American heads. You care about freedom and liberty and democracy only when you?re whining about ?stifling of dissent? here at home?even in the middle of dissenting at the top of your lungs with no repercussions beyond the ridicule of the still-sane?and not about the fact that 90% of eligible Afghans are now registered to vote. You worry about civilian casualties in the war, but not so much that you can?t find a way to hint now and then that maybe three thousand office workers in the WTC might?ve had it coming in some small way because Reagan thought the Sandinistas sucked. You paint us as the enemy, when most Americans know we?ve got enemies aplenty without having to waste time fooling around with nut-job Art Bell-like conspiracy theories to find them here at home.

?You show endless repeats of that panty-on-the-head video because it?s awful and Americans have a right to know the whole truth, but atrocities committed by our enemies are carefully hidden away. Hell, you won?t even show footage of 9/11 anymore because Americans might actually remember it and wonder who the hell?s side you?re on in the first place. Shit, you people don?t even have the stones to show videos of Islamist whackjob imams calling for our destruction at wholesale rates in mosques all over the world. But if Falwell offered Muslims the choice between conversion or violent death you?d be all over it with both feet?and you?d blame Bush for the fact that Falwell was nuts.

?You complain about divisiveness and uncivil discourse, but Bush is a Nazi and all Republicans are extremist right-wing religious maniacs. You call Dick Cheney Bush?s ?hitman? but Howard Dean is just a reasonable Democrat floating interesting ideas about terror alerts. Israelis are genocidal monsters for building a security fence to keep murderers from their midst, but the Palestinian killers they?re trying to thwart are ?militants.? Terrorists in Iraq trying to kill not only our servicemen and women but any civilians they can get within machete?s reach of are ?gunmen? or ?extremists??when a handful of you aren?t gushing outright about how they?re no different from George Washington. Who owned slaves, let?s never forget, the dirty terrorist.

?Wonder how awful you people would think it was if any Al Jazeera reporters ?destroyed their credibility and objectivity? by wearing little pins identifying them as jihad supporters in their lapels? I bet it wouldn?t bother you nearly as much as Fox News reporters? wearing American flags in theirs seems to.

?You bitch about how horrible and irresponsible SUVs are and drive them yourselves. You complain that Bush misled the entire world, and applaud the ?importance? of a movie that is nothing but a steaming, stinking pile of innuendo-laden propaganda. Politicians who have money are ?oligarchs,? unless they?re Democrats. Campaign finance reform is a wonderful thing, until it works against Democrats. American gun owners are talked about as if they were terrorists, and terrorists are talked about as if they were simply misunderstood children. And the only time you even use the word ?terrorist? at all anymore is when they?re attacking the hotel in Baghdad where you all cower and file reports from.

?You decry the importance of cheap oil to the world?s economy and complain about what a terrible thing higher gas prices were earlier this year?and it?s all Bush?s fault again, of course. You talk about how vital it is to have France?s support in the WoT when France said in no uncertain terms that they would never, ever support enforcing the UN?s own resolutions against Saddam. You talk about our ?unilateralism? when we went to Iraq with the support of nearly 40 countries, and you lament the ?rush to war? when we spent more than a year at the UN begging for them to make themselves useful for once.

?You bitch about how awful corporate corruption is, and can?t be bothered with reporting on a UN oil-for-bribes scandal that makes the gang at Enron look like a bunch of half-assed pikers, like kids toilet-papering a suburban lawn on Halloween. You talk about how the Bush admin calls its opponents ?unAmerican??not bothering at all with the fact that we?ve never actually done it?but when your choice for future first lady does precisely that, you get pissed off because an actual journalist has the audacity to ask her for a clarification.

?Al Gore tried his damnedest to steal the election in 2000 and failed, and you guys still claim that Bush not only tried to, but did. Gore failed because the Supreme Court finally stepped in to put a halt to Gore?s shenanigans, and you guys lament a supposed ?activism? on the part of the Supremes that you?ve spent the last thirty years applauding.

?You complain that Bush has no ?exit strategy? in Iraq, no plan for ?winning the peace??as if any plan ever survives first contact with the enemy, as any first-year West Point cadet knows?but you don?t go after Kerry when he refuses to talk about his ?secret plan? to get us out of there ? a Nixonian subterfuge if there ever was one, and we all remember how much you guys liked him. You take the word of insane dictators on simple blind faith, but if Bush mentions that he took a dump this morning after two cups of coffee you?ll claim he?s lying and call for an investigation.

?You people are, frankly, full of shit. It?s damned if we do and damned if we don?t with you Clymers, and I?m beginning to wonder why we even bother at all. No wonder nobody but yourselves and those pitiful few poor saps you still manage to fool pays much attention to you anymore. It?s too damned bad it?s come to this, but it?s your own damned fault.

?No more questions. Shove it.?


************************************

Some links to a few of the talking points are at the URL I cut and pasted this from: http://coldfury.com/index.php?p=4713



pinky



ps -- This is a satire. Unfortunately, Tom Ridge held no such press conference. Too bad he never will.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Phred]
    #2996359 - 08/12/04 05:57 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think I just came in my pants.

May God Bless America.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Phred]
    #2996411 - 08/12/04 06:16 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Too bad he won't actually say those things.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Phred]
    #2996453 - 08/12/04 06:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

?You still insist that a Democrat, any Democrat, would do a better job of defending the country than we have, but in the meantime there have been no?repeat, no, zip, zero, nada?successful attacks on US soil since 9/11

Um, there have been no successful attacks on US soil prior to 9/11 since Pearl Harbor, repeat, no, zip, zero, nada - guess Clinton (and others) did an amazing job in preventing them. The only attack was on Bush's watch and he should be commended for that?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Swami]
    #2996503 - 08/12/04 06:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Swami writes:

Um, there have been no successful attacks on US soil prior to 9/11 since Pearl Harbor, repeat, no, zip, zero, nada - guess Clinton (and others) did an amazing job in preventing them.

I guess that depends how you define "success", doesn't it? I seem to recall reading something about a big-ass ole truck bomb being successfully detonated by Al Qaeda members at the World Trade Center on Clinton's watch. Was that in 93? *scratches head*

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEd1
member
Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 150
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Phred]
    #2996543 - 08/12/04 06:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

How to play with Islam
By Sher Khan



It?s a dangerous and tricky game. Unlike Gladiatorial combat or bull fight this game must be played with tact and composure. It?s more like a chess game where one may have to plan up to 20 moves ahead. According to Sahi Bukhari Mohammed prohibited Musilims from playing chess. Hence we definitely have an advantage of having a weak opponent.

I wish I had a magic wand that could wipe out Islam! But, I don?t. So, what are the options?

Some people comments?? ?Nuke all Muslims! Kill them! Maim them!?

Quran says?? ?Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them? (9.5).

Do I see a pattern here? The idea of killing all Muslims is unrealistic, unethical and a clear reflection of Mullah?s attitude! Are they echoing the same tenets that we are fighting against? Should they degrade themselves to Quranic Level?

I am not a vegetarian and I am all for war if situation compels. Ironically, history teaches, war may become inevitable at times to restore peace and uphold humanistic values. But the concept of killing all Muslims is not an option rather a disruption of the strategy. Islam is not an entity; it?s a shadow of an evil ideology. You can?t fight with a shadow unless you expose the source.

Is it not an interesting fact that European Union (EU) is by far the largest donor to Palestine with almost $380 million dollars and brethren Arab League being the second largest donor with $318 million dollars in 2002? Even USA has pledged $75 million a year, thus creating a corrupted Palestinian Authority and a lot of suicide bombers. Donating money is a benevolent act but donors will have to carefully judge the intention of the recipient.

America and western countries painfully remain hostages of oil politics; Middle Eastern countries take full advantage of this situation and tactfully spread Islamic imperialism. When Muslim community of a western country requests to build a mosque, authorities rub their hands with glee and irrevocably grant the permission. When they ask for permission to yell on the loudspeaker and call Muslims for prayer, they don?t hesitate to say ?yes?.

Essentially, it?s a good idea to allow Mosques to use the loudspeaker in western countries. However, there must be two preconditions that Muslims should meet. All Friday sermons must be translated in English or in the native language of the country. Secondly, one Surah a day must be recited with its translation. Imagine an Imam (Muslim priest) singing over a loudspeaker at five o?clock in the morning,

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day??(9.029)

And fight them on until?.. there prevail?faith in Allah;(2.193)

Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you (9.123)

Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah (3.028)

I have no doubt in my mind that this process will work like a boomerang and help illustrating real Islam!

Governments and citizens of western countries will have to understand the threat of real Islam. Their appeasing attitude comes from two factors, one is oil and another is the concept of freedom of faith. Freedom is an unknown word in Islamic book; it does not carry any value in the world of Islam. Freedom of faith gives Islam the freedom to kill and freedom to hate. Western world still has no clue of what Islam can do. Sikhs and Muslims are followers of different faiths, with a history of long-term hostility. When some bigots attack Sikhs because they cannot differentiate Muslims from Sikhs; it becomes clear that western people have no knowledge of other religions, specifically Islam.

Hypocrite Muslim intellectuals have successfully created a rosy image of Islam, far away from actual Islamic teachings. Many western scholars fell in this trap and made comments that favored Islam. When some Muslims carry ?Islam will rule the world? placards, people of western countries fail to get the message.

Western countries are smart enough to find alternatives of Oil and fight with Islam. However, this urge will not arise until they know what Islam is all about. Paranoid political leaders are afraid of calling a spade a spade. News Medias are scared to publicize horrendous Islamic news. Non-Muslim citizens avoid this sensitive subject of Islam.

I wish I had a time machine that would take this world to 7th century and have everyone watch Mohammad?s actions. The Majority of Muslims are nice people and they are nice because they don?t follow Islam religiously. They take religion loosely and their conscious plays an effective role to overrule Islamic decrees. Still, why do they remain captives of Islam? Can they overcome the fear of hell and the greed of heaven that drives them crazy?

Crows are notorious birds and famous for stealing small stuffs. These birds are abundant in some of Asian countries and often their nests are filled with key chain, sunglasses, pencils and what not! It is said that these crows close their eyes when they hide stolen things in the nest. They assume no one has seen because their eyes are closed.

The complexity of this analogy denotes the minds of Moderate Muslims. They know what is hidden in Islam but they keep their eyes shut pretending no one else has seen it. The brutal teachings bother their conscious but they also like to enjoy the benefits of Islam after life. It?s the same conscious that a freethinker uses to disapprove Islam. They find excuses to white wash violent verses and Muslim Intellectuals write thousands of books in this regard. This is where our mission starts.

Bookstores and libraries are flooded with phony and twisted Islamic books that help moderate Muslims and western countries to get the message of unreal Islam. Very seldom they read the translation of Quran or Ahadith, where the real picture of Islam is hidden. Reading Quran is no fun; one may have to empty a bottle of Aspirin after going through a few verses. Inconsistent verses and hodgepodge thinking of a crazy man make no sense to a sane person. Not too many people read porno type Ahadith and other authentic Islamic books. Merely 23% of Muslims understand Arabic and rest of the Muslims read the Quran like magic spells. They memorize the Quran in Arabic and depend on politically correct books to find the answer. Over the years, these books have built a sand castle of deception and lies.

Are there enough books available to expose the real Islam? Until recently, no one dared to write against Islam. Those who opposed Islam in Mohammedan age have been smashed mercilessly. The same trend continues today. Islam is extremely vulnerable to criticism because it is based on lies and deception. Bats see better in darkness and light makes them blind. Islam does fairly well when the darkness of ignorance prevails but it?s fragile under the light of truth.

To educate the world we need more books, movies and websites that will expose Islamic vandalism. An international awareness of Islam will help to burry this cult. So, start writing whenever you can. Write to your political leaders, write to News Medias, and write a book or an article. Keep writing and things will change.

Are you in?


http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/SherKhan40810.htm


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Phred]
    #2996545 - 08/12/04 06:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The explosion was successful in that the chemicals did actually ignite and expand and six people were killed with negligible financial repercussion.

National Interest, Winter, 1995/96

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMB:
Who is Ramzi Yousef? And Why It Matters
by Laurie Mylroie

ACCORDING TO THE presiding judge in last year's trial, the bombing of New York's World Trade Center on February 26, 1993 was meant to topple the city's tallest tower onto its twin, amid a cloud of cyanide gas. Had the attack gone as planned, tens of thousands of Americans would have died.


Does't sound successful to me in the the goal was not even remotely achieved.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEd1
member
Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 150
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Phred]
    #2996566 - 08/12/04 06:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Why not say it bluntly? Islam is an aggressive, violent political ideology

By Zev Chafets


The two men arrested in Albany for allegedly taking part in a terrorist plot were men of G-d. So friends and neighbors have been telling reporters. Mohammed Mosharref Hossain was a pillar of the local congregation. Yassin Muhiddin Aref was a prayer leader. They called their mosque the House of Peace.

The mosque belongs to the North American Islamic Trust, which runs many other mosques in the U.S. The trust is funded mostly by the Saudis. It has other enterprises, too, including a book club. One of its featured offerings is "Jihad: A Commitment to World Peace."

Or if you are not a reader, you can express commitment to jihad in action. Like the Albany warriors who, the government charges, signed up to help gun down a senior Pakistani diplomat on the streets of New York City, using a shoulder-fired surface-to-air missile.

The upstate jihadis are not unique. On the contrary, they are just the latest in a long and growing list of local Islamic "spiritual leaders" and national Muslim leaders who have been implicated in terrorist activity.

Take Abdurahman Alamoudi, for example, founder of the American Muslim Council (hailed in 2002 by FBI chief Robert Mueller as "the most mainstream Muslim group" in the U.S.).

Alamoudi faces up to 23 years in prison for "engaging in illegal business deals" with Libya. What kind of deals? According to court documents, he was part of a plot to murder the Saudi crown prince.

Then there are the three leaders of America's largest Muslim charity, the Holy Land Foundation. They are awaiting trial in Dallas on a 42-count federal indictment for funneling millions of dollars to Islamic terrorist groups in the Middle East.

The head of another major Islamic charity, Benevolence International Foundation of Illinois, was recently convicted of sending funds to Islamic terrorist groups in Bosnia and Chechnya. And so on and so forth.

At this point, I'm supposed to add The Caveat: Most American Muslims are peaceable, law-abiding, terror-hating folks. Islam itself is a "religion of peace."

Sorry, but I'm no longer convinced. It may be that Islam in its true form is as gentle as a lamb. But in the real world, it is an aggressive, violent political ideology. It may also be that a majority of U.S. Muslims object to the jihad being waged against infidel Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, agnostics and democrats of all denominations. But if so, they are keeping it
to themselves.

After Abdurahman Alamoudi's confession of guilt, his lawyer, Stanley Cohen, warned that "there are those people who will seek to manipulate this plea into an attack on the entire Muslim community."

The Muslim establishment in America uses this form of intellectual jujitsu every time one of its leaders gets caught conducting holy war. Mosques and Muslim schools and institutions are hotbeds of agitation and terrorism? Why, just making the charge is a hate crime.

This trick has worked amazingly well on Americans who pride themselves on pluralism and good manners. For years, it kept the feds away from mosques and the politicians insisting against all evidence that Islam is nothing more than another path to the G-d of Us All.

But almost three years after 9/11, this hocus pocus is losing its potency. "There are terrorists among us," Gov. Pataki said after the Albany jihadis were arrested. He didn't specify because he didn't need to.

If America's Muslims don't want to be identified with America's enemies, they are going to need new leaders and loud voices. Slapping the word "peace" over the door of the mosque just isn't going to do it anymore.

Source: www.jewishworldreview.com |



http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/ZevChafets40809.htm


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Swami]
    #2996596 - 08/12/04 06:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Swami writes:

The explosion was successful in that the chemicals did actually ignite and expand and six people were killed with negligible financial repercussion.

Six dead, over a thousand injured, over 500 million dollars damage plus lost time in how many businesses? Sounds like a successful attack to me.

And, by the way, just what actions did the Clinton administration take that resulted in the terrorists not achieving their goal? Did they somehow secretly sneak into the garage where the truck was stashed before the attack and spirit away most of the explosives load or something? Or did the FBI beam special "confusion" rays into the heads of the terrorists to make them miscalculate?

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Phred]
    #2996625 - 08/12/04 07:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup: It would be the greatest day if he actually said that. The thing that pisses me off the most about the Bush Administration is that they never address their critics.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Phred]
    #3000131 - 08/13/04 12:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Six dead, over a thousand injured, over 500 million dollars damage plus lost time in how many businesses? Sounds like a successful attack to me.

And even in the face of such an attack Bush still didn't take Al-qaeda seriously enough to prevent 9/11.

Pathetic.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Phred]
    #3000472 - 08/13/04 01:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Six dead, over a thousand injured, over 500 million dollars damage plus lost time in how many businesses? Sounds like a successful attack to me.

When you perform any endeavor and achieve less than 1% of your goal, do you truly consider that successful?

PSM: "I planned on making $150,000 this year and made only $1,500, but I still consider that a success!"

If the goal was, in fact, to take down the building and kill thousands, if was far from successful. Of course, you do the dance of shifting to whether or not it had any impact whatsoever, which is a different topic altogether.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Ed1]
    #3000480 - 08/13/04 01:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Why not say it bluntly? Islam is an aggressive, violent political ideology

Why not say it bluntly? Christianity is an aggressive, violent political ideology with the bloodiest history of ANY religion.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Swami]
    #3000633 - 08/13/04 02:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Six dead, over a thousand injured, over 500 million dollars damage plus lost time in how many businesses? Sounds like a successful attack to me.

When you perform any endeavor and achieve less than 1% of your goal, do you truly consider that successful?

PSM: "I planned on making $150,000 this year and made only $1,500, but I still consider that a success!"

If the goal was, in fact, to take down the building and kill thousands, if was far from successful. Of course, you do the dance of shifting to whether or not it had any impact whatsoever, which is a different topic altogether.




The bomb went off, people died, large sums of money were lost, that is success enough. I dont see how you can try and downplay the attack just because the Terrorists were stupid.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: d33p]
    #3000679 - 08/13/04 02:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Downplay? I think it was atrocious, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it was successful. Seems I am one of the few that knows what words ACTUALLY mean or has the capacity to look them up, but here ya go:

Webster

suc?cess?ful ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sk-ssfl)
adj.

Having obtained something desired or intended.


The results were not what was intended. Simple.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Swami]
    #3000733 - 08/13/04 02:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

They wanted people to die, they wanted to cause terror, and they wanted American's to lose money. Something that they desired to happen, happened.

Let it go.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Swami]
    #3000757 - 08/13/04 02:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hey Swami, the flight that ended up crashing into an obscure Pennsylvania field on 9-11 was meant for either the White House or the Capital Building...I suppose that wasn't a success either?

Give it up dude.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3000785 - 08/13/04 02:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You guys must excuse personal failures as high success. That form of denial is quite sad.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: Swami]
    #3000802 - 08/13/04 02:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
You guys must excuse personal failures as high success. That form of denial is quite sad.




suc?cess?ful ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sk-ssfl)
adj.

Having obtained something desired

You are denying they obtained something they desired. Success can be measured, it is not black and white.

And the point is that it failed due to their own stupidity. I have no idea what you are arguing anymore.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Tom Ridge tells it like it is [Re: d33p]
    #3000829 - 08/13/04 03:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

And the point is that it failed due to their own stupidity. I have no idea what you are arguing anymore.



That makes two of us. He threw out a blanket statement that happened to be false and now he's trying to save face by playing the semantics game.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Islam’s Torture of Lebanon Luddite 543 0 07/23/06 10:31 AM
by Luddite
* The Threat Posed by Islam
( 1 2 3 4 ... 15 16 all )
unbeliever
18,088 300 01/25/07 09:26 AM
by Alex213
* Internet jihad Luddite 969 5 07/24/07 06:13 PM
by Luddite
* strategically destroying islam looner2 928 9 01/07/06 03:36 PM
by Annapurna1
* Islamic State of Iraq makes good on promise to attack Shiias The_Red_Crayon 949 8 12/04/06 11:09 AM
by fireworks_god
* Jihad and rape go hand in hand
( 1 2 all )
Evolving 1,721 32 09/26/04 11:53 PM
by Phluck
* American Made Jihad somebodyelse 655 6 06/28/03 09:11 PM
by shakta
* The threat of Political Islam LSDempire 436 0 08/16/05 10:58 AM
by LSDempire

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
1,998 topic views. 1 members, 0 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Phytoextractum
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.155 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.