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OfflineHerbanShaman
I am the Walrus

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 233
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Things we aren't meant to know?
    #2993554 - 08/12/04 12:32 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

During many of my trances I have visions which seem to provide insights that are almost otherworldly. I am often overwhelmed with the sense that these things are not meant for me to learn just yet, or that I am gaining some dark secrets. Does anyone else have these feelings. Furthermore, many times these insights will seem dramatically important for a proper understanding of the world. Ideas like "why didn't I see that before" come into my mind... then the trip ends and I can't remember the lesson or lessons that were so important to me during my visions. Perhaps this is nature's way of of keeping its secrets; or maybe it was all an illusion in the first place.


--------------------
"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me. When I return from the trip that I have taken with them, I tell what they have told me and what they have shown me."
-- Mazatec shaman


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #2993812 - 08/12/04 01:10 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've come to my personal decision that unless revelation make sense sober, being logical and all, that they are just delusions. The same way tripping might distort shape, it distorts logic. I don't take my revelations too seriously, but rather the way I react to them, and how I feel about things. Then I think about it sober. Then I think about it again. I've been wrong about things I thought of while tripping, so I'm skeptical as fuck now


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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Offlinegreypoe
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #2993991 - 08/12/04 01:45 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have had this experience before. You say you dont exactly remember what it ment? My mind blocked it out right after my first experience. Right before the trip I was noticing that there was a pattern everything was entwind in. We all seem to be a part of it, completely synchronized with everything around us. As I was tripping the pattern seemed very familiar. I felt that all these mathmatics in my head was a part of someones dream, my dream. I was seeking the meaning of life, and found it. We are all here to witness this dream. How do all the memories stack up together? If you were witnessing the life of every creature that ever lived, and everything that ever happened all at once how would it stack up?
The synchronization of events linked together create a song with some sort of message. It was like the message hangin in the air but i couldnt catch it, like i was experiencing it at another time.

I think we will know, its in our memory somewhere.
Speaking of, do you remember anything about your experience?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: greypoe]
    #2994326 - 08/12/04 03:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Why don't you tell me some of these things you've learned that we're not supposed to know.. I am always interested in obtaining information that is being kept from me.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlinetheknighterrant
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: entiformatie]
    #2994363 - 08/12/04 03:38 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

New here, but have had much experience with entheogens. Your skepiticism is healthy, but i believe you are missing the point of altered states of conciousness. the fact that the 'trip' distorts your logic is one of the high points. the revelations you receive are not logical in your non-altered state because you are not altered. this does not make them less real or meaningful. the demarkation that most people have between the altered state and non-altered state of thought forces them to choose one or the other as the 'more real'. since we cannot function in our society well when in an altered state of conciousness, most people see their non-altered state as being 'real'. the trick is to understand that these two states are not antithetical but contiguous; both are 'real' and movement between them is of primary concern to the shaman. any received information from an altered state is just as real as cold sober logic, provided that it has a emotional 'truth' or impact to it. the recognition of emotional/experiential truth of an experience can help in sorting them from the more hallucinogenic experiences of the altered state.
in short, which i should have done instead of rambling, do not discount your revelations out of hand. to do so is to reduce the experience to a mere drug trip. skepticism is good, but too much is bad.

tke


--------------------
The oldest and strongest emotion of man is fear. The oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.
--H.P. Lovecraft

Demented Piper Press


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #2994993 - 08/12/04 11:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've heqard that line before.... I was reading the logs of a very very intelligent man... he was convinced he had brought back something he was not meant to know.

But then again, I've read the logs of a good friend of mine (whom wasnt the sharpest crayon in the box).... he was tripping on LSD... he saw everything, absolutely everything, but KNEW he couldnt take anything back with him.

I have to wonder what that feels like...


--------------------


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OfflineEntropic
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #2995462 - 08/12/04 01:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've found that keeping a microcassette recorder with me while I'm tripping works well, but sometimes it is a bitch to sort through all of the stuff that I record while tripping. If you don't have one of those you couldn't always use the voice recorder on a cell phone, almost all of them have that capability.


--------------------
No .sig for me, I'm trying to quit.


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: theknighterrant]
    #2995483 - 08/12/04 02:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

But the logic from my unaltered state still remains true while I'm tripping, although it sometimes shows me different things, and I take these to be my revelations.

what i figure, when tripping, absorb the new reality, apply it to the trip (kind of like an f(x) function, where x is my state of mind). That way I can recognize the outcome, and using math-based logic, I can come to terms with the original equation. I don't know if that makes sense, but I can't put it into words any better than that. But thank you very much, because you're reply is what allowed me to come to this conclusion.


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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OfflineHerbanShaman
I am the Walrus

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 233
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Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: entiformatie]
    #2996060 - 08/12/04 04:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I often do remember aspects of what I've gone through or seen. For instance, once while meditating I was thinking of a friend whose recent actions I couldn't understand. I remember a sudden force overwhelming me and giving me a sense that it could not be more wrong for me to judge him, or anyone else in the fashion that I had. Another instance involved religion. I have always been somewhat of an athiest but unaware of the impact of my belief's. I felt unbelievably guilty for trying to influence the beliefs of others as I had, or making them feel ignorant for having faith. I still love to discuss religion, but I am now much more careful not to preach, only to open new paths of thought.

But perhaps one of the most important visions I had was similar to what you describe grey poe. I had some sense of being aware of patterns that I didn't normally percieve. I could see how everything was related, and felt I knew exactly why. I remember it could not have been more clear at the time, almost mathematical as you stated. I did not, however, feel that it was in any way a dream of myself or anyone else; if anything it seemed awkwardly real. I also remember trying desperately to hold onto this knoweledge, but as my mind returned to normal it was too weak to comprehend it all.
The whole string of events started when for a reason I don't recall left my camp and went about 20 feet to a log, I probably just wanted to examine some morels there. On the log or next to it was a tiny box turtle. I picked him up thinking he was incredibly cute, and wanting to save him for when my girlfriend picked me up. To my horror he had been hurt somehow, his shell was cracked on both sides. I would not call what followed a bad experience, but intensely sad and heavy. I could not stop sobbing for at least 20 minutes thinking about how I could help him. Eventually I sat down exhausted back at my camp knowing I couldn't do anything for him except leave him alone. I still feel that it was this trauma that sent me into my more intense visions and sometimes think of the visions as a gift from the little guy.
I do think of bringing pen and paper, or a tape recorder with me in the future. I am reluctant though, feeling that this would dampen my experience - or even that I'd be unable to express them properly. Often, when my girlfriend comes to pick me up I want to tell her so much, but I find that I'm completely at a loss for words. I almost feel stupid for saying the things I do, so I stay quiet. Expressing only half of what I percieve seems pointless, but I always feel the need to try to make it all more tangible and stable and when I can't I'm quite upset that I can't somehow save what seems like precious knoweledge. I often wonder if we all touch on different aspects of the same truth, since our accounts seem similar. What it is we are looking into is what I ultimately hope to discover or at least understand to a greater degree.


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"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me. When I return from the trip that I have taken with them, I tell what they have told me and what they have shown me."
-- Mazatec shaman


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Offlinecherokee
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #2996077 - 08/12/04 04:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

IME, you can't bring back the things you learn unless you're ready for the knowledge at that point in your life. Mushrooms have guided me through some really difficult things in my life. Life is a continual lesson, not everything will be revealed at once.


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OfflineHerbanShaman
I am the Walrus

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 233
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: cherokee]
    #2996110 - 08/12/04 04:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

That is definately the feeling I got, that I wasn't meant for that particular knoweledge yet. That the time hadn't come. I did feel though that it might not be earthly knoweledge and that I'd only ever truly understand everything when I died. As someone who hasn't ever put much stock in an afterlife, that disheartens me - I hope I'm wrong though. I think maybe the meaning of life isn't meant for us until death, but maybe god or whatever realizes that sometimes we need just glimpes of that knoweledge to help us get through life.

BTW what does IME mean, I'm ready to know that.


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"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me. When I return from the trip that I have taken with them, I tell what they have told me and what they have shown me."
-- Mazatec shaman


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Offlinecherokee
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #2996137 - 08/12/04 05:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

in my experience(s)


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OfflineHealingVisionary
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Registered: 07/27/04
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: cherokee]
    #2997706 - 08/12/04 11:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I was ready to know that too, it would appear.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #2999673 - 08/13/04 10:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

In my opinion in dealing with these allies, I came to the conclusion that shrooms test you all the time, and don?t give all the secrets to just any body you have to earn there respect.
Once the a spirit of the "shrooms" appeared to me and told me that now I was "ok" and that had many things to show me, since that encounter the nature of my trips changed completely (for the better), I need fare less dosage to have deep trip, I am able to retain a lot of the memories of the things I see (not all of them of course), and almost always I reach a state of "nirvana" or union with the universe.
And as crazy as it sounds these spirits of the shrooms (there are many)communicate and play with me more and more lately, all tell you what the communicated to me, and this is in my opinion the mayor clue to establish friendship with them.
....They really don?t like people who take them selves to "seriously in a fake way" in other words big "ego" you need to be humble and approach them innocently and playfully like a child, they really like when you can see and analyze your dumb "normal" behaviors and laugh out loud at your self, you will hear there laughter then, and eventually see them, they are like fairy like things but not 100% like in the movies or books.
You see entheogens will show you something about your self but if you don?t use what you have learn they wont show you the next chapter (I believe this is actually your self censoring it), It all starts in decreasing the size of you "ego" you need to make your self lighter, plus it makes life much more agreeable.
The second important lesson I learned is about energy, low energy=low experience, I noticed that the shroom experience opens up your energy centers one by one, but if you have resistances and blockages in your centers you are in for a rough time, and may not reach the higher levels, so I highly recommend you learn some type of chi-gong, I makes a huge difference.
Also don?t trip to often, tripping is a huge expenditure of energy, save and accumulate your energy, and then trip in a nature environment.
Well this is just my opinion after years in dealing with shrooms take it as it may, but I consider them one of the best things I have encountered in life.
Peace
LOBO


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OfflinePaintedDeath
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: LOBO]
    #3000975 - 08/13/04 03:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

while i was on a solo, i had a crazy revelation.

it did seem like everyint just came together, and it was all so clear.

what i percieved was that, everyone is the same. and that no one is different. but then we take these egos, and we wear them as masks to differeniate ourselves. when we eat these shrooms however, these masks come off, and we dont need to wear the masks. because in a way, wearing the masks is like hiding, so when we take these masks off, we no longer need to hide from each other, and we are finally free of the bullshit that society puts us through. we no longer need to play the part in this huge play we are in, no longer do we need the costumes and masks, but we are finally just ourselves. almost as if we withdraw from reality into another where we dont have to be our egos amd personas and what not.

i also came to the realization that, in life we can never be truly happy. we can be happy with out lot and we can be just generally happy, but not ever truly and finally happy. because satisfaction is the death of desire. and we will always, ALWAYS, because we are living and breathing, desire to live. if we were to lose the desire to live, we would die. and echoes from ourselves, way back when we were still single one celled organisms, do not allow us to stop wanting to live. because all life is, is a stuggle for survival, since the beginning of life. so with each and every single one of our cells, we are SCREAMING to continue living, scrapping to keep alive. its much like the shrooms as they colonize the substrate. we are just inching, and creeping till we consume everything. and its as if the spores of the shrooms are the eggs in a womb. as the eggs fertilize and begin growing, they grow and grow and grow until they are ready to produce their fruits, which are the shrooms, just as we grow and grow inside our wombs till we are ready to produce our fruits, which is ourselves. just as the cake is birthed from the jar, so are we birthed from our mothers.

it all seemed to make perfect sense, and was all so clear at the time.


--------------------
I wanna cross The Rainbow Bridge, and see my fathers in The Golden Hall. They beckon me, to join their feast. In my dreams, I hear their call.


Edited by PaintedDeath (08/13/04 03:41 PM)


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Offlineshamanality
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #3007132 - 08/16/04 12:08 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

beautiful thread all.

i can also attest to these experiences.

often there appears to be a conversation going on in my head. the participants seem to be enlightened self perspectives, i am on a path to discover, leaving clues, tidbits for pondering. the feel and urgency seems to fade over time, as i try to inigrate what i can take from these experiences.

very cool.


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OfflineHawkeye2
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #3007213 - 08/16/04 12:23 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It is my opinion that incredible "revalations" while tripping are pretty much due to the fact that your thought pattern and logic is completely twisted, so things that are like "WTF" when you're straight are like "OMG" when you're high. I can never remember any of my revalations after a trip because they were never really revalations, they were just twisted and bizarre thoughts. You think they're revalations when you're tripping because you are, for lack of a better word, delusional. You're in an alternate reality where inane and strange thoughts are startling revalations.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: PaintedDeath]
    #3010008 - 08/16/04 06:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have experienced this.

Excellent write up!

Indeed those are some very real revelations from the shroom.


--------------------


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Offlinetheknighterrant
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: entiformatie]
    #3012826 - 08/17/04 12:24 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i am not very adept in math, but i see where you are going with this. there is an inherent logic in alter states of mind, and when that logic can be integrated with normal state logic, the outcome can be very interesting. there is a tension produced within the mind that can cause some deeply involved investigation of the world around you. keep it up!

tke


--------------------
The oldest and strongest emotion of man is fear. The oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.
--H.P. Lovecraft

Demented Piper Press


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Things we aren't meant to know? [Re: theknighterrant]
    #3013447 - 08/17/04 02:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

do not discount your revelations out of hand

When the Mantid appears and tells you to torch your neighbor's house...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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