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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
i dunno if this was posted before
    #2992538 - 08/11/04 08:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

but I jsut got done watching the Moore vs. O'reilly debate, and something occured to me. why is a journalist actively making the case for bush?? I asked my buddy who I'm living with and he told me that isn't what it was like 30 years ago during watergate, when a president had been accused for misleading the public, or even clinton regarding the "i didn't have sexual relations.." scandal. Rarely would ANY kind of anchor, especially ones with the audience such as O'Reilly "supposedly has" make a case for someone who is being accused of misleading the public on such a large issue.

When skeptics like former weapons inspector Scott Ritter doubted Bush?s case or when foreign allies such as the French asked that U.N. inspectors be given more time, they were hooted down by the conservative media, including Fox News, as well as much of the "mainstream" press.

Then, after the invasion with no WMD caches found, Fox News was back hectoring critics, such as Michael Moore, who supposedly have voiced their criticism of Bush a decibel too loud or took it a notch too far. O?Reilly and other conservative media stars were enforcing an unwritten rule in recent American politics: the Bush family always gets the benefit of the doubt, no matter what the context.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: kaiowas]
    #2992688 - 08/11/04 08:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
but I jsut got done watching the Moore vs. O'reilly debate, and something occured to me. why is a journalist actively making the case for bush??



Because he is a political commentator not a news anchor.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 17 hours
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: kaiowas]
    #2992807 - 08/11/04 09:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
but I jsut got done watching the Moore vs. O'reilly debate, and something occured to me. why is a journalist actively making the case for bush?? I asked my buddy who I'm living with and he told me that isn't what it was like 30 years ago during watergate, when a president had been accused for misleading the public, or even clinton regarding the "i didn't have sexual relations.." scandal. Rarely would ANY kind of anchor, especially ones with the audience such as O'Reilly "supposedly has" make a case for someone who is being accused of misleading the public on such a large issue.

When skeptics like former weapons inspector Scott Ritter doubted Bush?s case or when foreign allies such as the French asked that U.N. inspectors be given more time, they were hooted down by the conservative media, including Fox News, as well as much of the "mainstream" press.

Then, after the invasion with no WMD caches found, Fox News was back hectoring critics, such as Michael Moore, who supposedly have voiced their criticism of Bush a decibel too loud or took it a notch too far. O?Reilly and other conservative media stars were enforcing an unwritten rule in recent American politics: the Bush family always gets the benefit of the doubt, no matter what the context.




maybe cuz politics and economics are synonemous...(sp?)


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Anonymous

Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: BleaK]
    #2992838 - 08/11/04 09:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)


maybe cuz politics and economics are synonemous...(sp?)


can you expand on that a little?


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 17 hours
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: ]
    #2992851 - 08/11/04 09:23 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:

maybe cuz politics and economics are synonemous...(sp?)


can you expand on that a little?




govt exists as a means to controll resources.

ie; if we dont take it someone else will.
then we'll have to pay them for it.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


Edited by BleaK (08/11/04 09:25 PM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: BleaK]
    #2993085 - 08/11/04 10:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
govt exists as a means to controll resources.



Not really.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 17 hours
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: z@z.com]
    #2993345 - 08/11/04 11:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

well what do u think?


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: BleaK]
    #2993372 - 08/11/04 11:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
well what do u think?



I believe it is only there to protect us from the initiation of force. Cops, courts and military should be all they do.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 17 hours
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: z@z.com]
    #2993384 - 08/11/04 11:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Quote:

BleaK said:
well what do u think?



I believe it is only there to protect us from the initiation of force. Cops, courts and military should be all they do.




that makes 0 sense.

cops, courts, and military initiate force.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: BleaK]
    #2993393 - 08/11/04 11:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
that makes 0 sense.

cops, courts, and military initiate force.



Ok. let me clarify. The only time we should initiate force is when someone is going to or has initiated force against another person or group of people.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: BleaK]
    #2993394 - 08/11/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

cops, courts, and military initiate force.

not necessarily. they can also use force defensively, which is their only legitimate role in society.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 17 hours
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: ]
    #2993403 - 08/12/04 12:00 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

defensive force IS still force.
i refuse to belive someone would initiate force without force first being initiated upon them.

dogs dont attack for no reason.


i just opened a thread in the politics forum about the causes of violence if anyone would like to get in on that.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Anonymous

Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: BleaK]
    #2993410 - 08/12/04 12:02 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i refuse to belive someone would initiate force without force first being initiated upon them.

when most people talk about initiating force, they mean using primary force. they mean using force in a situation before anyone else does.

people do it. that's why we're here talking about politics. that's why politics exists.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 17 hours
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: ]
    #2993447 - 08/12/04 12:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i refuse to belive someone would initiate force without force first being initiated upon them.

when most people talk about initiating force, they mean using primary force. they mean using force in a situation before anyone else does.

people do it. that's why we're here talking about politics. that's why politics exists.




i dont believe it.

the cycle of inflicting force has been going for tooo long.

everyone has forces inflicted upon them from the day their born.

everything is a reaction from that point.

but suposing we stop initiating force on our own people, and our neighbors..
would the cycle stop?


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Anonymous

Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: BleaK]
    #2993491 - 08/12/04 12:17 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i'm talking about a relationship between two or more people that starts out peaceful and then one or more of them causes it to become violent. if i walk into a liquor store, the clerk at the counter and i have a peaceful relationship between ourselves. if i try to rob him, i've initiated force against him. if he then uses force in defense of himself or his property, he has not initiated force.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 17 hours
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: ]
    #2993499 - 08/12/04 12:20 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i'm talking about a relationship between two or more people that starts out peaceful and then one or more of them causes it to become violent. if i walk into a liquor store, the clerk at the counter and i have a peaceful relationship between ourselves. if i try to rob him, i've initiated force against him. if he then uses force in defense of himself or his property, he has not initiated force.




im questoining why you would try to rob him then.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Anonymous

Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: BleaK]
    #2993547 - 08/12/04 12:30 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i'm guessing that most people who rob liquor stores do it because they want money.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 17 hours
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: ]
    #2993560 - 08/12/04 12:33 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i'm guessing that most people who rob liquor stores do it because they want money.




and i would say people want money because they are cohersed into using it to suport their life.

and i call that an initiation of force.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Anonymous

Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: BleaK]
    #2993583 - 08/12/04 12:36 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

and i would say people want money because they are cohersed into using it to suport their life.

and i call that an initiation of force.


people are not coerced into using money to support their lives. it is a choice. most of us choose to involve ourselves in specialization and exchange because it allows us be far more productive than if we had to build our own house, grow our own food, etc.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 17 hours
Re: i dunno if this was posted before [Re: ]
    #2993595 - 08/12/04 12:38 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
and i would say people want money because they are cohersed into using it to suport their life.

and i call that an initiation of force.


people are not coerced into using money to support their lives. it is a choice. most of us choose to involve ourselves in specialization and exchange because it allows us be far more productive than if we had to build our own house, grow our own food, etc.




i wasnt aware i could build my own house and grow my own food.

where should i go to do that?


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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