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OfflineLearyfan
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Conservatives and racism
    #2991574 - 08/11/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Of course all conservatives are not racists, but for some reason most racists are conservative.

Why???






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InvisibleDieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 28,165
Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2991621 - 08/11/04 04:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well I think the classic definition of "conservative" is preferring old ways over new. By this definition America as a whole is a very liberal nation. The rebels of the south, though democrats, were very conservative...and they preferred the old ways of europe. Of course modern political pop culture dosent adhere to classical definitions. The most racist people i know are liberal (most people i know are liberal) and it is liberals who like so-called "positive racism".


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2992044 - 08/11/04 06:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have a Democrat freind who used to belong to the Green Party who was always complaining that the Jews were controlling the country...

Also, the guys who think college admission should be determined by the color of your skin are not conservative.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2992051 - 08/11/04 06:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I have a Democrat freind who used to belong to the Green Party who was always complaining that the Jews were controlling the country...





ive heard of that, i just wouldnt refer to them as jews.
just evil fuckin people.

their religeon/nationality/hair color/ fecal matter color.... doesnt really have any meaning.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2992317 - 08/11/04 07:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Conservatives aren't the ones sending out the message that black people can't compete without the government adding some built in advantage. That type of "soft" bigotry is pervasive among liberals, and don't think for a moment that people can't pick up on that. The only racists that I know are liberals. I have no idea what information you use to back up your assertions. On second thought, maybe I do...

Maybe you should stop letting comic strips and political cartoons define your ideology. How pathetic is it that you found another little picture and just needed to start a post about it? "Conservatives are racists, and I have the cute little photoshop to prove it!" Spare me the useless tripe.

If someone says they are for "States Rights", liberals get in a hissy fit and start talking about "racial code words". I personally think that our Federal Government is too big, and that more of the money and the decisions on how that money is spent should be brought about on a state and local level. That doesn't make me a racist.

I am against Affirmative Action and the Welfare State, and virtually everything that the Great Society has brought to us though enhanced and enlarged government programs. I think that these programs do more harm than good to the target community. These things can also be statistically measured over the past 4 decades if you look at the black family, black employment rates, black literacy levels, and black incarceration rates. It is time to stop the madness.

Malcom X once said that as long as black people continue to take the white man's money (welfare), they will always be slaves. I side with Brother Malcom!

Affirmative action in colleges causes black students to drop out at higher rates, and we could never imagine to measure the indignity of living one's life around people who just by a glance presume that the only way you got there was because of the color of your skin.

The University of Michigan is one of the finest Universities in the nation. The Michigan Law program is even more exclusive. Let me clue you in on a little secret, the black kids going to Michigan Law aren't coming from the hood, they are coming out of the suburbs, complete with all the class advantages that white enjoy in the burbs. Their parents are professionals, doctors, lawyers, computer programers etc. In my town, major construction projects are given to huge companies that happen to be owned by black people in the name of affirmative action. Giving a milionare more millions is a way liberals have conceived of racial reconciliaton. Jesse Jackson goes to Atnea insurance and sells them on the idea that they can rectify the sin of once insuring black slaves by giving Jesse Jackonson a bunch of cash. Black people (and white people) that owned shares of Atnea lost value because they had to give some of it to Jesse Jackson. Black people (and white people) probably had to pay higher premiums to try and compensate for the cost of paying off Jackson. Who did this help outside of Jesse Jackson? Stop the insanity!

I think it is past time to ask the hard questions of who these programs really benefit. The liberal initiated "War on Poverty" has gone on for decades with deplorable results. We need to take an honest and fresh look at the impact of the policies of the Federal Government. In my opinion the worst part is not that we waste money or that the programs are ineffectual. The worst part is that the programs have done more to harm the intended beneficiaries than doing nothing at all.

But hey, you have a cute cartoon. As with many liberals, you prefer style over substance and elitist "enlightened" intentions over actual real world results.


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Anonymous

Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2992339 - 08/11/04 07:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

the left\right spectrum of liberal <-> conservative has less to do with politics in theory than it does with politics in practice.

does that make sense?

there is nothing in political theory that should make capitalists, firearms owners, homophobes, and christians all join together on the same side. it's just a quirk caused by the political situation and how the power game gets played.

the 2 dimensional diamond scheme we've all seen is much better, though i really don't think that a political continuum of any sort is really accurate or necessary.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2992419 - 08/11/04 08:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

what.... you thought they were trying to solve problems?

how do u make money when everythings perfect?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2992563 - 08/11/04 08:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There's fiscal conservatives and then there's social conservatives. Libertarians tend to be fiscally conservative while socially liberal. Social conservatives are people who hold on to traditional values and resist any attempt to change those values. Racism is a socially conservative idea. I think you'd actually be surprised how many social conservatives are fiscally liberal. If you look at working-class whites, particularly those in unions, I think you'll find a lot of them are fiscally liberal while being socially conservative. Racism tends to be highest in the white working class because other races and particularly immigrants compete with them for their jobs.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: silversoul7]
    #2993513 - 08/12/04 12:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

^^^^ exactly


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2993829 - 08/12/04 01:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The only racists that I know are liberals.




...and what of those minorities who are liberals themselves? Do all the millions of black and latino liberals hate themselves? Perhaps they are misguided and hurting their community (if you're logic is correct), but how exactly is this racism and not simply being misguided or wrong?

You're really stretching the definition of racism.

Quote:


Maybe you should stop letting comic strips and political cartoons define your ideology. How pathetic is it that you found another little picture and just needed to start a post about it? "Conservatives are racists, and I have the cute little photoshop to prove it!" Spare me the useless tripe.




lame :thumbdown: maybe you should quite making grand assumptions. Learyfan always includes images in his posts - no matter what the subject. I think it's pretty cool.

Quote:


If someone says they are for "States Rights", liberals get in a hissy fit and start talking about "racial code words".




They do? Who? Post some quotes where liberals equate state rights advocacy as being racist.

Quote:

I am against Affirmative Action and the Welfare State, and virtually everything that the Great Society has brought to us though enhanced and enlarged government programs.




...and that doesnt make you a racist, in my opinon (and im sure in the opinion of many, many liberals). Being a conservative doesnt equate to being ignorant and hateful and prejudiced - and this is coming from a liberal. I disagree with the original poster/premise that conservatives = racist. I will, however, argue that racism and homophobia is more alive and accepted among some circles of the rightwing (look at all the neo-nazi and white supremacist groups for example), just as anti-semetism and classism exists and is accepted in some circles of the left-wing.

Every barrel has its bad apples. Every populace has its idiots. No one group has a monopoly on either virtue or ignorance.


Quote:


Malcom X once said that as long as black people continue to take the white man's money (welfare), they will always be slaves. I side with Brother Malcom!




Funny that you reference an actual racist...

Quote:

Affirmative action in colleges causes black students to drop out at higher rates




stats?

Quote:

Let me clue you in on a little secret, the black kids going to Michigan Law aren't coming from the hood, they are coming out of the suburbs, complete with all the class advantages that white enjoy in the burbs. Their parents are professionals, doctors, lawyers, computer programers etc.




stats?

Okay, I understand why you would be opposed to social programs. I got that part. What I dont understand is why conservatives as yourself seem to always point to social programs first before pointing, say, the military-industrial complex and its massive subsidies. I would take conservatives more seriously if ya'll were more consistant (or at least more vocal) for reduction of government spending in all spheres of government activity. All I hear is welfare this, affirmative action that. Why arent you complaning (more often) about the billions that are handed over to Lockheed-Martin to produce the latest greatest enablers of empire expansion? Why does it seem the conservatives are the ones who support the evolution of the republic into an empire and nearly always support global-police actions? Why do conservative "representatives" are first to vote against acts of welfare, but turn a blind eye to all the other non-social spending?

Why are conservatives more in support of "nation-building" and can more easily accept the incredible haavoc that comes with war (the basis of arguement being the Federal governement has a duty to invade nations and "liberate"), but are so reluctant to support sending massive food supplies (because, as they argue, the government shouldnt exist to provide such things)?

At least Pat Buchannon speaks out about this - he wrote a book called (if I remember correctly) A Republic, Not an Empire. Cheers to that.

Libertarians seem to be the most consistant, however. And I respect them for that. But conservatives, man, I just dont understand, especially when they start pointing fingers (and have three pointing back at them  :wink: )


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Vvellum]
    #2993840 - 08/12/04 01:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There's more than one kind of racism at work here

There's the "We dun LAHK yer kahnd 'round heah" type of racism

That really isn't nearly as bad as it's portrayed to be on TV. On the east coast at least, I can say that if anything it's worse in the North than in the South. Why? Well, in the North minorities are concentrated primarily in the larger cities.. and nobody likes city folk. They've got crime, they're rude, so on and whatever.. in the South there's minorities allll over the place. Country folk, city folk, there's going to be some black folk and probably some mexicans within earshot wherever you go.

Then there's "Oh you poor thing, how could you EVER accomplish anything on your own, let ME help you so you can be just as good as the white man!"

How about we let everybody help themselves.. I assure you, minorities are quite capable of doing it themselves. How much you can do in life is more determined by your own drive to succeed in something and by the economic situation you come into than anything else. About in that order. Your race comes in to play, I'd say, less than your hair.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2994417 - 08/12/04 04:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think intolerance is just generally a feature of the right-wing. Be it of drug-users, gays or other races.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2995066 - 08/12/04 12:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
Conservatives aren't the ones sending out the message that black people can't compete without the government adding some built in advantage. That type of "soft" bigotry is pervasive among liberals, and don't think for a moment that people can't pick up on that. The only racists that I know are liberals. I have no idea what information you use to back up your assertions. On second thought, maybe I do...

Maybe you should stop letting comic strips and political cartoons define your ideology. How pathetic is it that you found another little picture and just needed to start a post about it? "Conservatives are racists, and I have the cute little photoshop to prove it!" Spare me the useless tripe.

If someone says they are for "States Rights", liberals get in a hissy fit and start talking about "racial code words". I personally think that our Federal Government is too big, and that more of the money and the decisions on how that money is spent should be brought about on a state and local level. That doesn't make me a racist.

I am against Affirmative Action and the Welfare State, and virtually everything that the Great Society has brought to us though enhanced and enlarged government programs. I think that these programs do more harm than good to the target community. These things can also be statistically measured over the past 4 decades if you look at the black family, black employment rates, black literacy levels, and black incarceration rates. It is time to stop the madness.

Malcom X once said that as long as black people continue to take the white man's money (welfare), they will always be slaves. I side with Brother Malcom!

Affirmative action in colleges causes black students to drop out at higher rates, and we could never imagine to measure the indignity of living one's life around people who just by a glance presume that the only way you got there was because of the color of your skin.

The University of Michigan is one of the finest Universities in the nation. The Michigan Law program is even more exclusive. Let me clue you in on a little secret, the black kids going to Michigan Law aren't coming from the hood, they are coming out of the suburbs, complete with all the class advantages that white enjoy in the burbs. Their parents are professionals, doctors, lawyers, computer programers etc. In my town, major construction projects are given to huge companies that happen to be owned by black people in the name of affirmative action. Giving a milionare more millions is a way liberals have conceived of racial reconciliaton. Jesse Jackson goes to Atnea insurance and sells them on the idea that they can rectify the sin of once insuring black slaves by giving Jesse Jackonson a bunch of cash. Black people (and white people) that owned shares of Atnea lost value because they had to give some of it to Jesse Jackson. Black people (and white people) probably had to pay higher premiums to try and compensate for the cost of paying off Jackson. Who did this help outside of Jesse Jackson? Stop the insanity!

I think it is past time to ask the hard questions of who these programs really benefit. The liberal initiated "War on Poverty" has gone on for decades with deplorable results. We need to take an honest and fresh look at the impact of the policies of the Federal Government. In my opinion the worst part is not that we waste money or that the programs are ineffectual. The worst part is that the programs have done more to harm the intended beneficiaries than doing nothing at all.

But hey, you have a cute cartoon. As with many liberals, you prefer style over substance and elitist "enlightened" intentions over actual real world results.




Oh-ho! Somebody is harboring lots of racist tendencies here aren't we?

If you read my original post, I said "not all conservatives are racists, but most racists tend to be conservative". You are obviously a closet racist and you're mad at me for making you feel wrong for thinking that way. That's the only reason I can think that you'd be so offended by my post.

And you didn't even answer my question. I was simply asking why rednecks, KKK, skinheads, etc.. tend to be socially conservative. That's all i'm asking. You don't have to unload your built up racial angst on me for simply asking a question. BTW, that picture has been uploaded to The Shroomery server since March 4th. I see it hit a nerve.




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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2995407 - 08/12/04 01:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I was simply asking why rednecks, KKK, skinheads, etc.. tend to be socially conservative.



That's like asking why bananas tend to be fruits. Racism is by definition a socially conservative idea, unless it's reverse racism, which liberals seem to have a monopoly on.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2995427 - 08/12/04 01:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I was simply asking why rednecks, KKK, skinheads, etc.. tend to be socially conservative.

that's like asking why vegetarians tend to prefer vegetables over meat, or why people opposed to the use of violence tend to be pacifistic.

"socially conservative" pretty much means "intolerant". why being intolerant and being in favor of free exchange are both labeled as "conservative" (one "social", the other "fiscal") is beyond me.

the whole conservative\liberal, left\right thing really doesn't apply very well to people who think for themselves.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Registered: 02/19/04
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2995595 - 08/12/04 02:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:

Oh-ho! Somebody is harboring lots of racist tendencies here aren't we?

If you read my original post, I said "not all conservatives are racists, but most racists tend to be conservative". You are obviously a closet racist and you're mad at me for making you feel wrong for thinking that way. That's the only reason I can think that you'd be so offended by my post.

And you didn't even answer my question. I was simply asking why rednecks, KKK, skinheads, etc.. tend to be socially conservative. That's all i'm asking. You don't have to unload your built up racial angst on me for simply asking a question. BTW, that picture has been uploaded to The Shroomery server since March 4th. I see it hit a nerve.






I don't think that I am a racist. We are all part of the human race. I see myself more as a realist.

Also, I reject some of these definitions of social conservatism. You lump people that oppose abortion and gay marriage with people who want to burn crosses and hang black people from trees.

If someone believes that killing a baby in a last minute late term abortion is wrong, it takes a great leap of faith to also believe that they are racist and hate black people. I can't take that leap myself.

Likewise with gay marriage. Marriage is an institution that has been ingrained in our culture for thousands of years. Today, marriage has taken quite a hit with divorce, and the family unit has been under attack with the number of single parent homes rising. Those single parent homes cause a lot of societies problems. The convention of marriage led to stable families over the course of history. It kind of seperated us from the animal kingdom in a way. Marriage would have been one of the very first social contracts that man had, if not the very first. It can be argued that it is at the heart of civilization.

Personally I am for Gay marriage. I don't think it will make any difference to my family or my children. Those people are already living together and calling themselves married. Giving them a slip of paper stamped by the government really doesn't change much in my opinion. That is not my point though. My point is that the people trying to "defend marriage" should be allowed to state their case. They shouldn't be denounced or equivocated with being racist just for their beliefs.

Everybody is allowed to believe what they want, and that makes this country great. Some people out there think that killing babies is wrong, and that we need stronger families. Those people are socially conservative. I would seriously doubt that those same people are part of some evil racist horde that some of you envision.

And I don't know what your definition of redneck is. I know plenty of people from small towns in middle america, and they are good people. As far as the klan goes, they really aren't a significant factor today. I doubt many Americans are members.

Liberals are the ones who support government policies that discriminate, not conservatives. You like to throw out little cartoons with bush being either Hitler or a member of the KKK. You couldn't find a harsher way to insult him, or you would use that too. It is not fair to conservatives to live with those labels. As a conservative it offends me. Things like that poison the well of public debate, and they also hurt our ability to heal real and legitimate wounds.

So many people cry racism today you have a "boy who cried wolf" effect. Whenever I hear the word "racism" today my first reaction is to assume that somebody is using the term either for personal or poltical gain. It would be hard to estimate the number of actual incidents of real racism are overlooked because prominent people play the race card incessantly for their own advantage. People call George Bush or Bill O'Reily racsits without any credible evidence, and they don't realize that they are demeaning actual victims of racism when doing so. Either that or they don't really care about them. Nobody ever holds those people accountable either.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: silversoul7]
    #2997258 - 08/12/04 09:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Oh-ho! Somebody is harboring lots of racist tendencies here aren't we?"

Typical shit-for-brains liberal response.

No, I'm being serious. It's on a list I think they distribute.

If the institutions that liberals have put into place to deal with racism are challenged, it MUST be because the challenger is racist. BEGONE YE RACIST AND CHALLENGE NOT WHAT THE LIBERALS HAVE DEEMED TO BE RIGHT! BY NOT AKNOWLEDGING THIS, YOU ARE A RACIST BY DEFAULT AND WE DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN! NYAH-NYAH-NYAHNYAHNYAH



When in fact it is those very liberals and their ideas that harbor racism -- obviously, without their help, the poor black man would NEVER be able to pull his way out of the mire! obviously without the liberal, blacks as a whole would still be wandering around the cotton fields confused! Certainly no person of color has actually ever improved their OWN lives, no, that can only be accomplished by holding Unkie Sam's hand so he can help you cross the street.

"Whenever I hear the word "racism" today my first reaction is to assume that somebody is using the term either for personal or poltical gain. It would be hard to estimate the number of actual incidents of real racism are overlooked because prominent people play the race card incessantly for their own advantage."

Which is sadly almost always correct.

There were only about a half dozen black kids at my high school, and even with such a low ratio I got very sick very quickly of hearing "You're only doing this because I'm black" as an excuse to escape punishment.

No you stupid shit, you're getting suspended because you punched some Freshman in the face. The only thing your color affects is your ability to make people feel bad enough for you they'll let you continue being a jackass -- though it's mainly through fear of being labelled a racist by the liberal left and forcibly ostracized from society.

Doesn't happen? Ya right.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2997291 - 08/12/04 09:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
"Oh-ho! Somebody is harboring lots of racist tendencies here aren't we?"

Typical shit-for-brains liberal response.

No, I'm being serious.  It's on a list I think they distribute.

If the institutions that liberals have put into place to deal with racism are challenged, it MUST be because the challenger is racist.  BEGONE YE RACIST AND CHALLENGE NOT WHAT THE LIBERALS HAVE DEEMED TO BE RIGHT!  BY NOT AKNOWLEDGING THIS, YOU ARE A RACIST BY DEFAULT AND WE DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN!  NYAH-NYAH-NYAHNYAHNYAH



When in fact it is those very liberals and their ideas that harbor racism -- obviously, without their help, the poor black man would NEVER be able to pull his way out of the mire!  obviously without the liberal, blacks as a whole would still be wandering around the cotton fields confused!  Certainly no person of color has actually ever improved their OWN lives, no, that can only be accomplished by holding Unkie Sam's hand so he can help you cross the street.

"Whenever I hear the word "racism" today my first reaction is to assume that somebody is using the term either for personal or poltical gain. It would be hard to estimate the number of actual incidents of real racism are overlooked because prominent people play the race card incessantly for their own advantage."

Which is sadly almost always correct.

There were only about a half dozen black kids at my high school, and even with such a low ratio I got very sick very quickly of hearing "You're only doing this because I'm black" as an excuse to escape punishment.

No you stupid shit, you're getting suspended because you punched some Freshman in the face.  The only thing your color affects is your ability to make people feel bad enough for you they'll let you continue being a jackass -- though it's mainly through fear of being labelled a racist by the liberal left and forcibly ostracized from society. 

Doesn't happen?  Ya right.


:thumbup:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineEd1
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Learyfan]
    #2997414 - 08/12/04 09:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)



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OfflineLumocolor
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Re: Conservatives and racism [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2997529 - 08/12/04 10:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
"Oh-ho! Somebody is harboring lots of racist tendencies here aren't we?"

Typical shit-for-brains liberal response.

No, I'm being serious. It's on a list I think they distribute.

If the institutions that liberals have put into place to deal with racism are challenged, it MUST be because the challenger is racist. BEGONE YE RACIST AND CHALLENGE NOT WHAT THE LIBERALS HAVE DEEMED TO BE RIGHT! BY NOT AKNOWLEDGING THIS, YOU ARE A RACIST BY DEFAULT AND WE DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN! NYAH-NYAH-NYAHNYAHNYAH



When in fact it is those very liberals and their ideas that harbor racism -- obviously, without their help, the poor black man would NEVER be able to pull his way out of the mire! obviously without the liberal, blacks as a whole would still be wandering around the cotton fields confused! Certainly no person of color has actually ever improved their OWN lives, no, that can only be accomplished by holding Unkie Sam's hand so he can help you cross the street.

"Whenever I hear the word "racism" today my first reaction is to assume that somebody is using the term either for personal or poltical gain. It would be hard to estimate the number of actual incidents of real racism are overlooked because prominent people play the race card incessantly for their own advantage."

Which is sadly almost always correct.

There were only about a half dozen black kids at my high school, and even with such a low ratio I got very sick very quickly of hearing "You're only doing this because I'm black" as an excuse to escape punishment.

No you stupid shit, you're getting suspended because you punched some Freshman in the face. The only thing your color affects is your ability to make people feel bad enough for you they'll let you continue being a jackass -- though it's mainly through fear of being labelled a racist by the liberal left and forcibly ostracized from society.

Doesn't happen? Ya right.




I couldn't agree more. In Australia it is, im sure, a different situation than in the states. However it has been very obvious to me that the discussion of racism, and mysoginism is the main driving force behind discrimination taking place. If the topic never came up, why would a 5 yr old even begin to think lowly of another race? It is beyond me.

Any way, back to the thread. I agree with the others, you answered your question in the original post. Very true racism is a old-school conservitive mind structure, brought on by many different factors that we rarely experience nowadays.


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