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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Disagreeing with Tim Leary
    #2990588 - 08/11/04 12:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think Leary's brilliant and a must-read for any tripper but I'm writing this paper right now tying him into a novel that mentions LSD, and anyway, I re-read Turn on Tune In Drop Out last night so I could have a better grip on it while writing today, and I have to say that sometimes it's hard to see where he's tongue-in-cheek and where he's not. I definitely appreciate the foreword to this book where the dude compares him to classic Trickster figures, which makes it easier to not react with audacity to some of his comments.
Most notably, his take on homosexuality seems a little closed-minded for someone who was otherwise so open:

"Do not attempt to establish clan relationships with persons of a different sexual persuasion. There is no value judgment here. Sex is sacred. People of like sexual temperament must form their own spiritual cults. Homosexuality is not an illness. It is a religious way of life. Homosexuals should accept their state as a religious path. [all of this is fine, until:] Homosexuals cannot join hetereosexual clans. [...] Hetereosexual clans can support, help, learn from, teach homosexual clans, but the difference must be preserved - with mutual respect."

I always find it easy to understand what Leary's getting at in the big picture even when he's being vague in his descriptions, but I just can't agree with this AT ALL.

Also, do you think he had a seriously belief in his foretellings of the future? Some of them are quite far-fetched.


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleAdom
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #2990599 - 08/11/04 12:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I never cared for much of his stuff. He has alot of intelligent things to say but I don't know, he never did much for me. I never really got into any of the 'guru's' at all. I'll be my own guru.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Adom]
    #2990600 - 08/11/04 12:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

He bounces back and forth between egotism and selflessness so quickly, so often, it's hard to keep track.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #2990603 - 08/11/04 12:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Whenever I listen to Come Together, knowing that John wrote it for him, I always love the line "hold you in his arms yes you can feel his disease - Come Together!" makes me wish I could have tripped out with Leary hardcore and, seriously, just have him give me a hug.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflinePhishgrrl
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Adom]
    #2990606 - 08/11/04 12:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I have never read Tim Leary....just quotes of his from other books, and about him. That is interesting. Did he write some kind of manifesto on how to live communally or something?


--------------------
Once in awhile you can get shown the light

In the strangest of places if you look at it right...



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InvisibleAdom
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #2990608 - 08/11/04 12:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I wonder what was up with Lennon hating Leary later in his life. Seems he was alot better off with LSD and Leary than he was with herion and depression.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Phishgrrl]
    #2990611 - 08/11/04 12:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Turn On Tune In Drop Out is a guidebook on how to form a psychedelic spiritual community...a close-knit group of people committed to each other on all levels: social, spiritual, financial, physical (though he stresses monogamy is a very important factor in human evolution, which I praise him for saying in the midst of a free love fest.)


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Adom]
    #2990614 - 08/11/04 12:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

He hated Leary later in life? I didn't know that.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleAdom
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Phishgrrl]
    #2990617 - 08/11/04 12:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Sweet jesus????

He was a harvard proffessor who got turned onto lsd in the 60's. Started doing all kinds of research and got fired and then became the movements 'high priest'. He wrote all kinds of articles, told the nations youth to "tune in, turn on and drop out" . He lived one hell of a life, I'd do a search and get a good bio on him, he's insanely interesting to say the least.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Adom]
    #2990628 - 08/11/04 12:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Books by Leary worth reading are:

The Psychedelic Experience
High Priest (Amazing.)
Turn On Tune In Drop Out

The grea tthing about him is that he was an outcast before he ever encountered psilocybin in Mexico in the 50's. See, psychology was strongly Freudian then (as it is unfortunately today) but he embraced a lot of Karl Jung's theories, namely that we all exist together as a collective unconscious and that is why "archetypes" surface in all cultures all across the globe, and why different myths from different cultures have common themes. Leary believed group therapy was the best kind of therapy, and he would not try to control the group or any of his patients the way the other psychologists would. He was very adamant about the fact that psychiatry is practiced in a twisted way where the doctor thinks he is in a power position.
He was ready to let go of control before he ever tripped.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleAdom
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Phishgrrl]
    #2990631 - 08/11/04 12:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleAdom
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #2990642 - 08/11/04 12:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe I was a little to immature the last time I read his work. Maybe it was out of my grasp I think I might purchase some of his books. I've only read parts of my friends. Skimming around today has resparked my interest.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Adom]
    #2990657 - 08/11/04 12:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The foreword to Turn On Tune In Drop Out is great, just comparing Leary to people like the fox in Native American tales and in other cultures like the Sufis and even the Greeks (Leary identified himself with Hermes the messenger).
A lot of his stuff really is tongue-in-cheek because it sounds so serious but he's just sort of making fun of the status quo. Even the "Drop Out" part of his slogan he knew would be misinterpreted.In that book actually there are two interviews from magazines with him and he explains what he means by each part.
High Priest is 16 trip reports, his sixteen most important trips of his life. 14 involve drugs.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineVulture
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #2990666 - 08/11/04 12:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

havent read a whole lot by him....i jsut watched timothy learys last trip and i enjoyed it. I tend to lean towards Ram Dass (dr. richard alpert) more than i do leary.

but i dont know much about what learys said except for what everyone else knows.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineHooty
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #2990669 - 08/11/04 12:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I could have sworn the quote about homosexuality was from create your own religion, or maybe I'm just knowing that book by a different name for some reason (?) But I always thought they were two seperate books.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Vulture]
    #2990672 - 08/11/04 12:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think he's an important firsthand read, so you can hear his ideas the way HE wrote them down. He was really an excellent wordsmith, and writes in a really poetic style. In High Priest he does some brilliant Burroughs-esque descriptions of tripping.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Hooty]
    #2990673 - 08/11/04 12:26 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

His books get shuffled around and mixed together a lot, so Create Your Own Religion is chapter 1 of Turn On..


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #2990746 - 08/11/04 12:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Here's how I look at it:

His good stuff is absolutly brillant, and certainly revolutionary at the time.

His bad stuff is laughable, including his prophecies.

I love a lot of Leary's stuff, and I think he acknowledged that there was a good chance he was wrong on a lot of stuff. His main interest seemed to be getting people to question authority, including his own. It's really a shame too, because it seems as if the major problems in politics could be solved if people were more apt to question authority rather than be moved by pandering to values and pretty ballons.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflinePhishgrrl
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: Adom]
    #2990755 - 08/11/04 12:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I know who he is silly, reread my post- I've read about him, a lot- just never read any of the books he wrote. :smile:


--------------------
Once in awhile you can get shown the light

In the strangest of places if you look at it right...



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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Disagreeing with Tim Leary [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #2990760 - 08/11/04 12:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Homesexuality viewed as religious? HAHA  :rotfl:

I like this guy already!


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