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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD
    #2984219 - 08/10/04 02:08 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Isn't this one of the main, if not the main criticism leveled against Bush? That he knew they weren't there and just wanted to fatten his buddies pockets. Why then would Kerry say he would still have went even if he positively knew no weapons would be found?

GRAND CANYON, Ariz. (Reuters) - Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry said on Monday he would have voted for the congressional resolution authorizing force against Iraq even if he had known then no weapons of mass destruction would be found.

Taking up a challenge from President Bush, whom he will face in the Nov. 2 election, the Massachusetts senator said: "I'll answer it directly. Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it is the right authority for a president to have but I would have used that authority effectively."

Speaking to reporters from the Powell's Landing on the rim of the Grand Canyon above a mile-deep drop, Kerry also said reducing U.S. troops in Iraq significantly by next August was "an appropriate goal."

"My goal, my diplomacy, my statesmanship is to get our troops reduced in number and I believe if you do the statesmanship properly, I believe if you do the kind of alliance building that is available to us, that it's appropriate to have a goal of reducing the troops over that period of time," he said.

On that timetable, Kerry's aim would be to pull out a large number of the 138,000 U.S. troops in Iraq in the first six months of his administration.

"Obviously, we'd have to see how events unfold," he added. "I intend to get more people involved in that effort and I'm convinced I can be more successful than President Bush in succeeding in doing that. It is an appropriate goal to have and I'm going to try to achieve it."

Kerry refused to say if he had any private assurances from Arab or European nations that they would help with security and reconstruction in Iraq but said "right now the administration ... is scrambling and struggling to try to find a way to do that."

"All of this should have happened in the beginning, all of these things should have been achieved beforehand," he said. "American presidents should not send American forces into war without a plan to win the peace."

BUSH CHALLENGE

Bush last week challenged Kerry, who Republicans accuse of flip-flopping on Iraq by voting for the war resolution and against the $87 billion request to fund operations, to say straight out if he would have voted the same way if only to eliminate the danger that Saddam Hussein could have developed weapons of mass destruction.

"Now, there are some questions that a commander-in-chief needs to answer with a clear yes or no," Bush said. "My opponent hasn't answered the question of whether knowing what we know now, he would have supported going into Iraq."

"I have given my answer," Bush said. "We did the right thing, and the world is better off for it."

Kerry challenged Bush to answer some questions of his own -- why he rushed to war without a plan for the peace, why he used faulty intelligence, why he misled Americans about how he would go to war and why he had not brought other countries to the table.

"There are four not hypothetical questions like the president's, real questions that matter to Americans and I hope you'll get the answers to those questions, because the American people deserve them," he told reporters.

Kerry, who is on day 11 of a two-week coast-to-coast campaign trip, used the majestic backdrop of the Grand Canyon to criticize Bush for neglecting America's national parks system and pledged to restore $600 million he said the president had cut from the budget.


http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/381249|top|08-09-2004::17:46|reuters.html


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2984262 - 08/10/04 02:22 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The man in his nomination speech accused Bush of 'misleading' the country into war, but then he says he would have made the same decision? Not only this, but on the senate intelligence committee he had all the information Bush had about Iraq, came to the same conclusion, and accuses Bush of misleading. Well, if Bush mislead he did so with a little help from Kerry among others.
I am really not convinced with Kerry's logic "If I'm president I'll do the same things as Bush but for me they will magicaly work out perfectly" Criticizing Bush for not making a bigger coalition Kerry seems to have missed the message, Germany, France and Russia supported Iraq, not us. Bush's personality had nothing to do with it, it was about geopolitics and oil. John Kerry couldn't have changed this one damn bit.
Then he accuses Bush of not planning for the peace in Iraq, which is also absurd. The Bush Administration spent a long time on their plan, problem was everything turned out differently. If Kerry had the same expectations, he'd have the same plan, the same allies, and the same problems.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2984337 - 08/10/04 02:40 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

"If I'm president I'll do the same things as Bush but for me they will magicaly work out perfectly"




im seriously considering withdrawing my vote for john kerry until he gives an honest answer as to why he thinks it was a good idea...if he says its because of oil..thats fine...otherwise he cannot take his liberal constituency for granted..especially when he makes such a rediculous statement...


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2984520 - 08/10/04 03:35 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Isn't this one of the main, if not the main criticism leveled against Bush?

I think the main criticism is that he insisted they were there when they wern't. That he made the decision to invade long before there was any new evidence about the non-existent WMD.

Why then would Kerry say he would still have went even if he positively knew no weapons would be found?

Is he really saying that? Or is he saying he would have supported the presidents authority but expected the authority to be used effectively? That americans should not be sent to war without a proper plan?

But you're right, Kerry is no Gandhi. But at least he's not Bush.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2984545 - 08/10/04 03:43 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I once saw Bill Clinton on Larry King Live saying that he agreed that Saddam needed to be taken out. All he disagreed with Bush about was the timing. Even if you support the war, it seems that Bush needs to work a little bit on his strategery.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD [Re: silversoul7]
    #2984629 - 08/10/04 04:09 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Think you're misunderstanding the nature of politics. Clinton had 8 years to "take out Saddam" and didn't even get near invading Iraq.

Once it's been invaded it's a different situation. You need to say things in order not to be painted in the press as a peacenik and a "weak".


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OfflineHoodedForestDwellr
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD [Re: Xlea321]
    #2984710 - 08/10/04 04:40 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD" -who fucking cares, Bush did. People are getting killed, why? what? huh?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD [Re: HoodedForestDwellr]
    #2984802 - 08/10/04 05:43 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

who fucking cares



Those of us able to recognize hypocrisy.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2984887 - 08/10/04 06:42 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

So how much power do presidents really have? I can't believe that Bush makes any real decisions. Surely you're voting primarily for the party, and secondarily for the president?

I know in the UK Blair has teams of advisors and thinktanks that decide what to do, and Blair has no choice but to follow.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD [Re: HoodedForestDwellr]
    #2985015 - 08/10/04 09:30 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Bush did

What else can they say tho? Bush was responsible for slaughtering and maiming thousands of innocent people on the basis of non-existent "WMD". How do you defend the indefensible? So instead they have to try and attack Kerry.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: Xlea321]
    #2985094 - 08/10/04 10:25 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

So killing and maiming thousands of innocents on the basis of non-existant WMD's is acceptable as long it was disclosed first? What do you think would have actually happened differently?

Is this the only thing that makes the war unjust in your view - that the reason he said compelled him turned not to be as extensive as was claimed? If Kerry had been in charge and simply said "Saddam is a madman and we're going to liberate the Iraqi's" everything would be ok?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2985144 - 08/10/04 10:45 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Kerry has no core beliefs that I can discern. That scares me.

It is tough to follow Kerry and find out where he stands on anything. He is the master of doublespeak. I simply can't trust Kerry to do anything that he says.

Divided Sky is right on. The centerpiece of Kerry's war policy is involving France, Germany and Russia and getting them into the mix. I think every American thinks that is a great idea, including George Bush. In fact, that is why we went to the United Nations in the first place.

The German Chancellor won on an anti American campaign. They are not about to turn around and send kids in harms way. Chirac in France has been the wars biggest opponent. He would look like a two faced liar if he turned around and started sending a significant amount of young Frenchmen. It simply won't happen. Russia has so much internal instability at the moment that Putin's political life is in jeapordy. That country is closer to a political and economic collapse than most people care to let on. It is an issue that doesn't get much attention in a time of war.

Quite simply, Kerry's promise to involve these people is either a boldfaced lie or it is an honest view that is so detached from reality that the man is genuinely incompetent. They aren't coming to the party. Kerry complains about Bush's plan, but his own plan is not feasible. He might as well enlist the help of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2985230 - 08/10/04 11:10 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Two sides of the same coin.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/12/99
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: MOTH]
    #2986829 - 08/10/04 05:51 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

^ what she said.

are you all aware that Kerry has WORKED FOR THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION in the past.
plus Kerry and Bush BOTH went to Yale and were initated into the same occult fraternity.

also, the reason we went to War so quickly.
is because Saddam started an archaeological dig,
in an ancient Sumerian city, where alien technology was found.

the US has now build 20-foot brick walls w/ barbed wire, around the site.

yes, the Truth IS stranger than phiction... how could it NOT be?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: Middleman]
    #2988260 - 08/10/04 10:17 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jinx said:
also, the reason we went to War so quickly.
is because Saddam started an archaeological dig,
in an ancient Sumerian city, where alien technology was found.



Ok, ya lost me there.  Let me put my tin-foil hat on.  :shiftyeyes:


--------------------


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Offlined33p
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: silversoul7]
    #2988286 - 08/10/04 10:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Modern day:
Saddam Hussein claimed himself to be the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar after discovering an ancient relic underneath the catacombs of the ancient palace. He was excited that if his scientists could discover its power he would then conquer the world. Now this made the Knights Templar (modern day Masons) uneasy. A plan was devised to get George W. elected as President and go to war in Iraq. The war was successful and the relic was covertly recovered and sent to NASA for analysis. The ancient tablets are being analyzed by the best minds on our planet.

edit: right after posting this my IE mysteriously crashed


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: Middleman]
    #2989134 - 08/11/04 02:12 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Jinx, any more information or sources on that site?


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: d33p]
    #2989199 - 08/11/04 02:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
  Modern day:
Saddam Hussein claimed himself to be the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar after discovering an ancient relic underneath the catacombs of the ancient palace. He was excited that if his scientists could discover its power he would then conquer the world. Now this made the Knights Templar (modern day Masons) uneasy. A plan was devised to get George W. elected as President and go to war in Iraq. The war was successful and the relic was covertly recovered and sent to NASA for analysis. The ancient tablets are being analyzed by the best minds on our planet.

edit: right after posting this my IE mysteriously crashed




if you pulled that out of ur ass, its pretty good sci-fi , you should write a moviie....if u didnt link to where that came from :smile:


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Offlined33p
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Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without W [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2989213 - 08/11/04 02:40 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

O sorry it's not a d33p original.

Quote:

Ancient technologies of the ?gods? in those days were usually hidden in common household items such as pottery and idol statuettes. Their real purpose for use was concealed from those ignorant, but in the hands of those sanctified (most were called priests) these serve as miraculous charms or talismans. Most are of ancient Sumerian and Egyptian artifacts. Unfortunately, they are in countries, which do not allow archeologists to dig such as Iraq. Now, I will mention an artifact that I believe the world has heard about.

History:
After conspiring a plan to loot the wealth of Egypt (mainly gold) and becoming masters of a slave race, the outcast ?gods? who were forbidden to return home without sufficient quota of gold employed a former Egyptian Royalty. These ?gods? were highly temperamental because they were extremely eager to make a name for themselves and prove themselves competent. They succeeded in plundering Egypt but more gold was needed and so they must loot more cities.

Now preparation needed to be made by the ?gods? for the voyage home, but the liberated slaves who behaved like children, always needing to be attended to, were constantly distracting them. The ?gods? came up with an invention to give the slaves so they can communicate with them when they needed help. The ?gods? wanted to tract the slaves progress without always interfering. To the slaves this invention was nothing more than a beautiful relic to be carried around. They were not aware of the magnitude of its power. Indeed, the ?gods? had hidden their complex technology within two precious stone tablets, which made the relic a potential weapon of mass destruction. It took the ?gods? forty days and forty nights (some extent of time) to fabricate them. The ?gods? were to access the invention remotely when the slaves cry for help.

But to make matters worse for the ?gods?, the former Egyptian Royalty who was in charge of the slaves destroyed the stone tablets in anger. This defeated the whole purpose of the ?gods? invention since without the stone tablets it was useless. This made the ?gods? angrier because replacements parts for their invention was not readily available except on their home planet. This meant that the ?gods? had to trade gold with the other ?gods? who had not left the realm for replacement parts.

Anyways, the slaves prospered into a mighty nation and the ?gods? having sufficient gold returned home. Then after some time the Babylonian (former Sumerian, present Iraq) King Nebuchadnezzer II heard about the power of the relic and invaded the Holy City to clandestinely capture the relic and much gold. However, to his dismay King Nebuchadnezzer II and his sages did not know how to work the relic. So the Babylonian King took the elite educated hostages in hopes that they will reveal the secret of the relic.
Among the hostages were Ezekiel and Daniel.

Well, the ?gods? after some time returned for their invention fearing its secret might be discovered and their technology compromised. After they learned that it had been taken to Babylon, they were furious. The ?gods? then met up with Ezekiel by the river of Chebar in Babylon and instructed him on what needed to be done. But the ?gods? were unsuccessful in locating the relic and believing their invention to be neutralized, they departed.

Modern day:
Saddam Hussein claimed himself to be the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar after discovering an ancient relic underneath the catacombs of the ancient palace. He was excited that if his scientists could discover its power he would then conquer the world. Now this made the Knights Templar (modern day Masons) uneasy. A plan was devised to get George W. elected as President and go to war in Iraq. The war was successful and the relic was covertly recovered and sent to NASA for analysis. The ancient tablets are being analyzed by the best minds on our planet.

This may all sound absurd but knowing this information will not make any one a better person any more or any less.




http://www.alien-ufos.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2998.html

good site


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Kerry would have still approved Iraq operation without WMD [Re: deafpanda]
    #2989769 - 08/11/04 05:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
So how much power do presidents really have?



Eneough to effectivly destroy life as we know it.

Quote:

I can't believe that Bush makes any real decisions.



I have no doubt he makes most of the decisions.

Quote:

Surely you're voting primarily for the party, and secondarily for the president?



No. If I was voting strictly party I'd vote libertarian.

Quote:

I know in the UK Blair has teams of advisors and thinktanks that decide what to do, and Blair has no choice but to follow.



No choice? I doubt it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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