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Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: re-elect george w. bush?? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2976275 - 08/07/04 06:06 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I am for welfare for the disabled and elderly.

I am against welfare for those who can work. If they can't find jobs then I would like to see the government swapping food and accommodation for menial tasks. Whatever the arrangement, there are better ways than just giving out money.

As for taxes, I would like them to reflect the cost to the state of the individual. Ideally, people could opt-out of paying various taxes if they did not impose their own costs on society in those areas.

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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: re-elect george w. bush?? [Re: deafpanda]
    #2976303 - 08/07/04 06:20 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I am for welfare for the disabled and elderly.

I am against welfare for those who can work. If they can't find jobs then I would like to see the government swapping food and accommodation for menial tasks. Whatever the arrangement, there are better ways than just giving out money.




Definitely a more respectable position than most.

Quote:

As for taxes, I would like them to reflect the cost to the state of the individual. Ideally, people could opt-out of paying various taxes if they did not impose their own costs on society in those areas.



The problems I see with that(and there may be more) are twofold:

1) I personally have no concern with this, but it has no basis in the reality of government run projects. The 'point' of public schools is supposed to be to provide cheap(or free) education to families who would otherwise not be able to afford private education. If people not using this service(and again this hypothetical has nothing to do with my personal beliefs) are allowed to opt out, the poor will have to foot the bill. Same deal with the handicapped and disability welfare you exclaimed support for above...that kind of completely defeats the purpose of 'welfare' for certain people if those people are the ones paying for the welfare. I could apply this to many other issues as well.

2) Why should government be running a multitude of voluntary services in the first place? How does the federal government acquire the authority to meddle in public schools, or grant farm subsidies, or give foreign aid. My point is, why should government set up organizations to do these things run on a pseudo-voluntary basis when history has shown us that, barring a few exceptions, anything government can do the private sector can do better?


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: re-elect george w. bush?? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2976344 - 08/07/04 06:36 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I'd keep inheritance tax, and I would tax products according to their social/environmental costs, as accurately as possible. People who cause a certain amount of environmental damage are costing society as a whole, and should be taxed.

And as for the second point, that is why I would like to see taxes reflect people's cost to the world. I don't like the idea of forcing taxes on people, but if they are causing financial loss to the state, then they should be taxed.

It's not at all true that history has shown that whatever the public sector can do, the private sector can do better. It has been the case in America, but Europe, the UK especially, have had totally different results.

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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: re-elect george w. bush?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #2976537 - 08/07/04 08:04 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

All politics is logical in design, yet unfortunately it is all run with a lot of emotion :smirk:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: re-elect george w. bush?? [Re: deafpanda]
    #2977702 - 08/08/04 08:07 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
I am against welfare for those who can work. If they can't find jobs then I would like to see the government swapping food and accommodation for menial tasks. Whatever the arrangement, there are better ways than just giving out money.




In Japan they make people work to get benefits. That at least has the benefit of giving someone the pride and sense of accomplishment. It gives them a chance to do something and do it well, and not feel so much like a leech. We pay people to sit in air conditioned public housing, drink alcohol and watch cable tv.

You get free cable where I live if you are on welfare, because they don't want to deny the "educational" aspects of television. That is outrageous. Free internet access can't be far behind, because you can use the internet for "education".


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

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OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: re-elect george w. bush?? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2977797 - 08/08/04 09:37 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

the internet was originally intended to be free.

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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: re-elect george w. bush?? [Re: Barbi]
    #2978081 - 08/08/04 11:28 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
the internet was originally intended to be free.




Al Gore intended it to be free when he created it.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

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OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: re-elect george w. bush?? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2978112 - 08/08/04 11:40 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I'm going to just ignore that useless comment and again say, the internet was originally intended to be free when he became a non military network.

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