Home | Community | Message Board

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
40 minutes of down time.
    #2972567 - 08/06/04 03:54 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

That's a good bit longer than Gdubs 7.





Friday, Aug. 6, 2004
Hypocrite Kerry 'Couldn't Think' for 40 Minutes on 9/11

John Kerry is getting his comeuppance for his snotty comments about President Bush's actions on 9/11.




Story Continues Below



Here's what the Massachusetts Democrat said July 8 when Larry King asked where he was on 9/11, according to CNN's own transcript:

'Nobody Could Think'


"I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting - we'd just come into a leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol. And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon. And then word came from the White House, they were evacuating, and we were to evacuate, and so we immediately began the evacuation."


How appropriate that Kerry lumps himself in with fellow leftist do-nothing non-thinkers such as Boxer, Daschle and Reid.


Thanks to the several readers today who sent us this fascinating bit from Blog for Bush: "the second plane hit the World Trade Center at 9:03 a.m., and the plane hit the Pentagon at 9:43 a.m. By Kerry's own words, he and his fellow senators sat there for forty minutes, realizing 'nobody could think.'"

And here's what former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani told the New York Post about Kerry's latest display of insolence:

"John Kerry must be frustrated in his campaign if he is armchair-quarterbacking based on cues from Michael Moore.

"John Kerry is an indecisive candidate [with] an inconsistent position on the War on Terror, who voted against funding for our troops and who cannot give a clear answer on his position concerning the decision to remove Saddam Hussein."


Check the facts before slamming the source.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebarfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2972585 - 08/06/04 03:59 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, but he wasn't the commander and chief at the time. Huge difference.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: barfightlard]
    #2972865 - 08/06/04 05:06 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Of course there's a difference, but it's typical.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2973045 - 08/06/04 05:47 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

No shit. Now that he has come out and attacked Bush for staying calm with the kids, I would have love to go back and be a fly on the wall in that room with that cunt Boxer.

Kerry didn't even have the leadership qualities to get his own ass out of the building without being told to do so! WOO HOO!

I don't know what I would have done if I was President. I was at work on September 11th. Somebody turned on the news because they were saying a small plane had gone astray and accidentally crashed into the World Trade Center. When then second plane hit, everyone knew that our country was under attack. Some people started crying. Nobody could work. All at once a cocoon had been shatered. All I knew for sure was that the world just changed, and it wasn't for the better.

9-11 was a watershed moment in American history. If forced a paradigm shift on how we view the rest of the world. It takes much longer than 7 minutes or 7 days to come to grasp the new realities and repercussions of those events.

We have never had a President live and on tape at the moment he was informed that our country was being attacked. That footage gets lampooned by Michael Moore, and it makes fun cartoons for Learyfan and his ilk. That picture actually makes me pretty emotional. Not because I am partisan, but because I love my country. I think it is sad that Kerry made an issue of that, especially now that his own admission of initial confusion has come to light. I don't know anyone that wasn't a little dazed and confused on 9-11.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,267
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 8 hours, 4 minutes
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2974900 - 08/07/04 08:16 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, Kerry should have quickly contacted his people to see if he needed to authorize the shooting down of a plane or planes.

Oh wait......Bush and Cheney were the only ones who could do that.






--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Learyfan]
    #2974910 - 08/07/04 08:24 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

He should have called in his keepers private jet and rammed those terrorists.

Face it, those of you who'll vote for Kerry have cast your lot for an jackass. While Bush is no prize those many of us who'll most likely vote for him at least do so while holding our nose while the Kerry voters seem to be waltzing right in with their eyes and minds closed.

Vote for me..... I'm not Bush! How very inspirational.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2974925 - 08/07/04 08:33 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

So Kerry is a man of inaction too? Does this make Bush the right man for the job? It's funny, one of the first things I thought on 9/11 was, "Shouldn't they scramble fighter jets when there's a hijacked airliner?"


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Evolving]
    #2974929 - 08/07/04 08:35 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I say get them to mud-wrestle. Fuck voting. I'd say American politics is not far off pro-wrestling at the moment, actually...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: deafpanda]
    #2974936 - 08/07/04 08:41 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

You are correct, it's all a staged show. I was watching the news last night and it seems the biggest topic was Kerry's Vietnam record. The reason? The differences between Kerry & Bush policy wise are mostly cosmetic. We're gonna get ass raped (again), it's just a matter of asking which gang's leader are you gonna give it up to first.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,267
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 8 hours, 4 minutes
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Evolving]
    #2974949 - 08/07/04 08:56 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
It's funny, one of the first things I thought on 9/11 was, "Shouldn't they scramble fighter jets when there's a hijacked airliner?"




That could have upset the kids though.







--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2974950 - 08/07/04 08:56 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

what an objective article!!! good job finding something that is 100% slanted to the dark side. please don't post articles from right wing tabloid websites and expect them to be taken seriously  :smirk: they are really pushing it..so kerry's brain stopped working for 40 mins!!?!?!? he litterly couldnt think??? words amuse me because they can be interperted to say whatever you wan them to. i doubt senators know as much or are told  as much the pres, maybe they didnt know what was going on...they hadnt been briefed, they were watching in disbelief with the rest of us...the look on bush's face during that 7 mins is priceless because he knew exactly what was going on and didnt know what to do!! i think you guys are starting to realize bush is a lame duck, articles like this mean your desperate...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2974963 - 08/07/04 09:05 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
words amuse me because they can be interperted to say whatever you wan them to.




You can also use a wide variety of them and arrange them in different ways to express thoughts and opinions. They are remarkable that way.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2975150 - 08/07/04 11:29 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
He should have called in his keepers private jet and rammed those terrorists.

Face it, those of you who'll vote for Kerry have cast your lot for an jackass. While Bush is no prize those many of us who'll most likely vote for him at least do so while holding our nose while the Kerry voters seem to be waltzing right in with their eyes and minds closed.

Vote for me..... I'm not Bush! How very inspirational.




bush's stance on offshoring my jobs blows ass.

I'll be voting democrat this year for sure.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2975340 - 08/07/04 12:53 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Please describe for us a rough outline of the form of any legislation you think would be appropriate to protect your particular job and why you might think this would benefit anyone beside yourself.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2975392 - 08/07/04 01:09 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Stopping offshoring of IT jobs to places like India DIRECTLY benefits the IT industry employees who are already in a shitty world of dot com failure and internet explosion overload.

I work for a company thats based in india and the US, I'm here in the states. This company does support. So far the indians a) cannot do the job properly b) piss customers off beacuse of their thick accents. c) take away jobs from qualified people in the US.

Why should I suffer so india can prosper with my job? replace 'my' with any It industry person's name.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Evolving]
    #2975407 - 08/07/04 01:15 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Does this make Bush the right man for the job?



I'm sorry. Did I type that somewhere and forget I said it?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2975408 - 08/07/04 01:15 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Because capitalism dictates that if something is cheaper, it will be done  :wink:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2975417 - 08/07/04 01:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Actually, the reason I posted the article was to point out what a hypocrite Kerry is.

I know Bush sucks but many are rallying behind a self confessed war criminal. That amuses me to no end.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: deafpanda]
    #2975419 - 08/07/04 01:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

and its my choice to invoke my right to make sure my government does whats best for me and my family, and my fellow countrymen, which isnt always big business's best idea.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2975434 - 08/07/04 01:22 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Certainly is, captain.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2975466 - 08/07/04 01:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Please describe for us a rough outline of the form of any legislation you think would be appropriate to protect your particular job and why you might think this would benefit anyone beside yourself.




--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2975476 - 08/07/04 01:34 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Does this make Bush the right man for the job?



I'm sorry. Did I type that somewhere and forget I said it?



Did I quote you or did I pose rhetorical a question?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Evolving]
    #2975506 - 08/07/04 01:43 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

No. Not a quote, just how I read it.

If you say it was a rhetorical question I'll take your word for it as I've never seen any evidence of dishonesty from you.

Sorry.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2975610 - 08/07/04 02:12 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Don't be sorry, I'm trying to get on your nerves, my goal is to be the new Alex123.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Evolving]
    #2975617 - 08/07/04 02:13 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

What happened to the old one and do we really need one at all?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2975647 - 08/07/04 02:21 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I've killed him and am feeding him to my pit bulls. Do we really need one at all? Hmmm, like an oncologist needs cancer, like a sewer needs waste, like The Road Runner needs The Coyote...


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Evolving]
    #2975670 - 08/07/04 02:29 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

You could never be like Alpo. You're not the type.

Be glad of that.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Evolving]
    #2975687 - 08/07/04 02:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Those poor dogs. I'm dropping a dime to the ASPCA. It's a criminal act to feed them something with so much volume and no substance. Like feeding them a dry sponge and a gallon of water


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2975984 - 08/07/04 04:25 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Please describe for us a rough outline of the form of any legislation you think would be appropriate to protect your particular job and why you might think this would benefit anyone beside yourself.







my rough outline:

stop sending my jobs overseas to idiots who drive down consumer faith even further into the depths of hell while sending my fellow career brothers into debt and bankrupcy.

As for the second question:

Its not my job to give a rats ass about everyone else, They all hav their OWN vote to go cast based on how they want and percieve issues of importance to THEM.

A vote is jsut that, a single vote, from a single person, with his single opinion and outlook on the current situation making a choice to best reflect his needs.

I'm not voting for your needs buddy.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2975990 - 08/07/04 04:28 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

my rough outline:

stop sending my jobs overseas to idiots who drive down consumer faith even further into the depths of hell while sending my fellow career brothers into debt and bankrupcy.



How would a President Kerry go about doing this? I'll give you a hint: Whatever he will do is completely irrelevant to the actual problem.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2976006 - 08/07/04 04:34 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Its of no concern how its done, as long as its to my benefit. There obviously is a much larger scale problem here, but I'm concerned with what affects me, my family, my mortgage payment, my dog, etc NOW. Bush (in my eyes) hasnt really helped me much other then making the world hate us as a race, looking like a complete idiot almost every time he opens his mouth it seems, etc etc etc rehash bush crap here.

Oh, I did get a big nice tax refund check increase for my kids, which was neato keen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2976021 - 08/07/04 04:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:

How would a President Kerry go about doing this? I'll give you a hint: Whatever he will do is completely irrelevant to the actual problem.




is that right?? did you look into your crystal ball before you made that prediction, or are there some facts to back it up?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2976117 - 08/07/04 05:19 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
Quote:

Ancalagon said:

How would a President Kerry go about doing this? I'll give you a hint: Whatever he will do is completely irrelevant to the actual problem.




is that right?? did you look into your crystal ball before you made that prediction, or are there some facts to back it up?



Nothing but history and logic. Two things liberals are not a fan of.

Edit: I'd just like to add that if John Kerry would actually elaborate on some of his promises, I'd have to rely on prescience a good deal less. Unfortunately the man is so afraid of alienating his very stable 'at least he's not Bush' base that detail won't be forthcoming anytime soon.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

Edited by Ancalagon (08/07/04 05:25 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKingOftheThing
the cool fool
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2976155 - 08/07/04 05:29 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
Quote:

Ancalagon said:

How would a President Kerry go about doing this? I'll give you a hint: Whatever he will do is completely irrelevant to the actual problem.




is that right?? did you look into your crystal ball before you made that prediction, or are there some facts to back it up?



Nothing but history and logic. Two things liberals are not a fan of.

Edit: I'd just like to add that if John Kerry would actually elaborate on some of his promises, I'd have to rely on prescience a good deal less. Unfortunately the man is so afraid of alienating his very stable 'at least he's not Bush' base that detail won't be forthcoming anytime soon.




ok so you were just guessing, i wanted to make that clear

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2976167 - 08/07/04 05:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ok so you were just guessing, i wanted to make that clear



It's crystal clear buddy...and I prefer the term 'hypothesising.' In other words, I made an educated guess. I base this guess mostly on history. Do you reject history as a means(if not a perfect means) of trying to predict future actions?


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2976430 - 08/07/04 07:20 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Its not my job to give a rats ass about everyone else, They all hav their OWN vote to go cast based on how they want and percieve issues of importance to THEM.



:thumbup:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2976441 - 08/07/04 07:22 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Nothing but history and logic. Two things liberals are not a fan of.




You just summed up the left so accurately and eloquently.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2976489 - 08/07/04 07:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
[
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Please describe for us a rough outline of the form of any legislation you think would be appropriate to protect your particular job and why you might think this would benefit anyone beside yourself.







my rough outline:

stop sending my jobs overseas to idiots who drive down consumer faith even further into the depths of hell while sending my fellow career brothers into debt and bankrupcy.

As for the second question:

Its not my job to give a rats ass about everyone else, They all hav their OWN vote to go cast based on how they want and percieve issues of importance to THEM.

A vote is jsut that, a single vote, from a single person, with his single opinion and outlook on the current situation making a choice to best reflect his needs.

I'm not voting for your needs buddy.




Just who is "sending" your jobs overseas? Your job went overseas bcause it can be done cheaper there. This is to the benefit of everyone else. Maybe we should set up a tax fund so that you can be paid for your foolish career choice to train yourself to do the same job that millions of your contemporaries decided to train for. Did any of you IT geniuses ever look around and think that if so many of you are training for the same career it would devalue your place in the labor market?

You seem to be proposing that there be some kind of legislation to prevent jobs from going overseas. I just wondered what you might think the form of that legislation might take. You know and explain how that wouldn't fuck everybody else in a (roughly) free market economy.

I don't expect, nor desire, you to give a fuck about my needs. I just want to know how you think the government should go about bailing your sorry ass out since your incredibly essential job can be done for peanuts overseas. Now I suppose your going to tell me that you don't give a fuck about what I want to know. I thought this was kind of a debate forum and not a whiners convention.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2977684 - 08/08/04 07:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Zappa is right. You can't protect one party unless it is at the expense of someone else. We tried to save the jobs of steel workers, but we actually lost more jobs from industries that use the steel they make. The tarriffs caused the cost of the raw steel they use to go up, and those higher prices made them less competative in the world market. Great article on it by Walter Williams:

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2735

If you want to fight offshoring jobs, ask your Congressman to get rid of FICA payroll taxes and corporate taxes on business. That would reduce the tax burden of companies that produce here and make them more likely to hire.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2977786 - 08/08/04 09:35 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Paying some other country to do american work obviously sends money OUT of our country, and into another. The only people who benefit, since there are no 'goods' coming back in, is the top execs of the company, and the indians who dont buy american products.

I didnt and wil not pretend like I write laws and have a perfect solution. There is a reason I'm not a politician, economist, etc. Its not my job to come up with solutions, its my job to vote in the guy who does or at least comes along with the near best solution.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2978018 - 08/08/04 11:00 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

And Kerry's answer is .......what? Oh, I forgot, it's another one of his secret plans, along with his secret plans for Iraq, Iran, N. Korea, Israel/Palestine, health care, energy.

Do you think we should ban imports of all kinds or just the ones that you produce? The people who benefit are everyone who buys a product or service that is done cheaper overseas than it would be here. The only people who lose are those who can't compete.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2978026 - 08/08/04 11:03 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

You seem to mistake me for one of those typical bush bashing flamers. I dont give a rats ass which party is in office, or who is president as long as they meet my needs. So far bush has FAILED, so Im voting for the only viable option, kerry.

All of our choices thi year suck.

I also never said a damn thing about banning imports.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2978045 - 08/08/04 11:11 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
Paying some other country to do american work obviously sends money OUT of our country, and into another. The only people who benefit, since there are no 'goods' coming back in, is the top execs of the company, and the indians who dont buy american products.




You sure seem to be complaining about imports here, whether goods or services.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2978103 - 08/08/04 11:38 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I'm complaining about offshoring of jobs. The good portion was to cover the fact that its not just cheap labor used to build goods to come back into our country. i.e. just a step in the entire product life line from company to consumer.

The shit I am discussing is a one way ticket out of the US.

But now I'll try your tactics of debate.

Since you are obviously so pro bush, why dont you tell me WHY I should vote bush back in and what HE is doing that makes him deserve my vote.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2978123 - 08/08/04 11:44 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Do you want the government to cause the prices of goods and services to rise? Do you want the government to lower the disposable income of the average America via legislation and enforcement?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Evolving]
    #2978128 - 08/08/04 11:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

the rise of inflation is generally slow and steady compared to the immediate loss of income due to a poor or non existant job market.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2978507 - 08/08/04 02:22 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I'm referring to the higher costs of goods brought on by tarrifs, and laws that would restrict employing of people in other countries. When GWB imposed a tarrif on imported steel, the rise in price of steel domestically available was immedate.

Do you want the government to cause the prices of goods and services to rise by eliminating corporations ability to hire people in foreign countries and putting or increasing tarrifs on imported goods? In other words, do you want the government to lower the disposable income of the average America via new legislation and it's enforcement? Will a lower disposable income have a net positive or negative effect on the average American?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Evolving]
    #2978553 - 08/08/04 02:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

you are comparing something that is a basic building block and need, along with a product, to something that is just a service. I'm not familiar with the steel comparison you are making fully in order to compare them 100% side by side but in the IT field, prices have not gone down due to offshoring of support based jobs. In fact, prices are going UP while the companies costs are dropping drastically and costing americans jobs. Obviously there is no perfect solution beacuse I would hope if ther was, and we knew it, we would impliment it. However there needs to be a proper balance put in place to prevent our skilled people from being put out of work by less skilled, but CHEAP, outside labor.

The IT industry cannot be directly compared to a lower average skilled industry like manufacture, as this industry relies on highly skilled and educated people to do even the 'mcdonalds' IT jobs. So not only is it taking away jobs for us, but its costing us customer satisfaction due to poorly trained and educated people taking the jobs.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2978692 - 08/08/04 03:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
The IT industry cannot be directly compared to a lower average skilled industry like manufacture, as this industry relies on highly skilled and educated people to do even the 'mcdonalds' IT jobs. So not only is it taking away jobs for us, but its costing us customer satisfaction due to poorly trained and educated people taking the jobs.




What a piece of arrogant, self-absorbed, disrespectful bullshit that was. Most manufacturing jobs are highly skilled and the people who do them work hard to improve their skilll. Just because you have no clue how to do something doesn't mean it can be done by monkeys. Manufacturing jobs are for the most part not for McDonalds cashiers. If anything you IT geniuses have screwed yourselves, because it clearly wasn't that difficult to train a monkey to do YOUR job. And your concern for the customer is also self-serving. You sound like the Detroit automakers in the 70's responding to Japanese cars. Problem was the Japanese cars were better made. Customers make decisions every day about whether to pay more for service or not. Face it, there are too many of you and you're nowhere near as important as you think. So many lemmings, so few cliffs.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2979213 - 08/08/04 07:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
as long as its to my benefit.



That pretty much sums up your entire argument right there.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2979649 - 08/08/04 10:35 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

mndfreeze said:
The IT industry cannot be directly compared to a lower average skilled industry like manufacture, as this industry relies on highly skilled and educated people to do even the 'mcdonalds' IT jobs. So not only is it taking away jobs for us, but its costing us customer satisfaction due to poorly trained and educated people taking the jobs.




What a piece of arrogant, self-absorbed, disrespectful bullshit that was. Most manufacturing jobs are highly skilled and the people who do them work hard to improve their skilll. Just because you have no clue how to do something doesn't mean it can be done by monkeys. Manufacturing jobs are for the most part not for McDonalds cashiers. If anything you IT geniuses have screwed yourselves, because it clearly wasn't that difficult to train a monkey to do YOUR job. And your concern for the customer is also self-serving. You sound like the Detroit automakers in the 70's responding to Japanese cars. Problem was the Japanese cars were better made. Customers make decisions every day about whether to pay more for service or not. Face it, there are too many of you and you're nowhere near as important as you think. So many lemmings, so few cliffs.





YOu are the arrogant asshole here. I deal firsthand in a company that has US and india support. I interface with india technicians on an hourly basis if not more often and I can say 100% from EXPERIENCE something you seem to lack not being an "IT GENUIS" that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Making shoes for nike in a sweatshop, or having a machine build a car while you operate its 5 buttons, does not qualify as degree based, or highly technical ability. I never stated that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN INDIA was a moron. I have dealt with a few that have EARNED their right to make it. You want to know where they go? THEY MOVE TO AMERICA. Thats right. Beacuse they can come here and get 50k a year, or stay in india and make 600 bucks a month, which in india is BANK, but who wants food poisoning every day?

The majority of the people who do technical shit in india are overall unskilled morons. They cram for a test, get a certification, and have NO CLUE how it really works. They dont use the net at home except in rare occurances, are not 'geeks' who are into it because its a hobby a well. They are trained monkeys who suck at their job. call dell sometime and TRY to get an american or even ANYONE who is NOT from india, who speaks in any sort of understandable language, and actually KNOWS how to fiux your problem.

Quite a few of my coworkers get sent to india every few months to try to train these people. They ome back with nothing but horror stories of the miserable say, living conditions, food poisoning, and general intelligence of the populace.

As for my 'self serving attitude' Your motherfucking 110% correct on that. I'm not here to serve for YOU, or for THEM, or for anyone else by myself and my family. I dont see anyone else going out of there way to make sure *I* get taken care of, so why the fuck should I care about some borderline 3rd world country stealing my jobs.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2979728 - 08/08/04 10:56 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

mndfreeze writes:

...why the fuck should I care about some borderline 3rd world country stealing my jobs.

There in a nutshell is your flawed take on the situation. The fact of the matter is that it is not your job, it's your employer's.

The company which employs support people has the right to choose their employees. Of course, as in all other things in life, there is a tradeoff between cost and effectiveness, which is why not everyone drives cars costing $80k -- for a lot of people a car costing a quarter that amount is effective enough for them. An employer faced with the option of paying $60k a year for a support tech or $20k a year would be a total fool not to at least investigate the feasibility of hiring the guy for 20k. If the guy can do the job adequately, the employer wins. If not, the employer loses.

Now, you may be correct that the $20k Indian techs are so incompetent the employer who hires them will end up losing customers and will thus sooner or later end up having to re-evaluate the wisdom of keeping them as employees. He may indeed end up firing the Indian techs and then consider filling his job vacancies with American support techs once again.

But that's his choice, not yours and not the government's.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Phred]
    #2979749 - 08/08/04 11:02 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Well, thats where I disagree. If money keeps flowing out of our country and our economy goes to shit, then its the governments job to fix it. Its their job to take care of things like that so that I, a citizen, can live a nice prosperous life.

If that company wants to move to india, and not be a US based company, they hey, more power to em. But Im not a big fan of a company thats sits as a US company, abusing the system, and sending all of the money offshore.

You are correct that is is not 'my' jobs, its my employers. But again, its the governments job to maintain the health of our economy and its people.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2979792 - 08/08/04 11:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

mndfreeze writes:

Its their job to take care of things like that so that I, a citizen, can live a nice prosperous life.

Actually, it's not. The government's job is to protect you from those who would initiate force against you.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Suppose I got tired of living in the Dominican Republic and moved to your city (or town or village or wherever it is you live). What's the difference to your situation if the employer we were discussing above hired me at $20k a year rather than you at $60k a year or the Indian dude at $20k a year? Are you still left looking for a job or not?

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Phred]
    #2979822 - 08/08/04 11:28 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

There was a debate about this, namely because Walmart was giving jobs to illegal immigrants for less. (I didn't know it was possible for such a shitty paying job to give even less  :rolleyes:) The fact is, if Walmart has to pay the same to an illegal immigrant as to a normal citizen, any incentive to hire the illegal immigrant is lost

I don't know how we can possibly apply this to overseas jobs, or if it even should. The government shouldn't put their noses into private companies business as long as it's legal, but there also ceases to exist any reason to keep the jobs here when you can transfer them to India for a quarter of the price, and this would create havoc upon employment and the economy. I don't claim to know the answer to the problem either, perhaps a compromise between the two would be best


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Phred]
    #2979829 - 08/08/04 11:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

If you are a US citizen, I have absolutly no problems with you being hired for 20k a year. There is, last I remember, some laws that prevent large influx of immigration for jobs for non citizens, and those who ARE citizens deserve the right to compete with me for Us based jobs.

Those who are not US citizens, do not have such right IMO. They have a right to deal with their own government, and theur own economy and not suck mine drier then it already is.

The dot come explosion and crash already emptied the market like a proverbial cock. We dont need foreigners sucking a limp penis for every last cent.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2979879 - 08/08/04 11:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

mndfreeze qrites:

If you are a US citizen, I have absolutly no problems with you being hired for 20k a year.

How about a US resident with all the necessary government work permits?

It seems your stance is that if a company is headquartered in the US, it should be forcibly prevented by the US government from hiring anyone other than US residents as employees. Am I reading you correctly on this?

If I am, does this mean you feel the same way about foreign companies? For example, should Honda be allowed to open automobile construction plants in the US? Or should you (a US citizen) be allowed to work inside the US as a support rep for Siemens or Phillips or Sony or Panasonic or NCR?

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Phred]
    #2980500 - 08/09/04 04:16 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
mndfreeze qrites:

If you are a US citizen, I have absolutly no problems with you being hired for 20k a year.

How about a US resident with all the necessary government work permits?

It seems your stance is that if a company is headquartered in the US, it should be forcibly prevented by the US government from hiring anyone other than US residents as employees. Am I reading you correctly on this?

If I am, does this mean you feel the same way about foreign companies? For example, should Honda be allowed to open automobile construction plants in the US? Or should you (a US citizen) be allowed to work inside the US as a support rep for Siemens or Phillips or Sony or Panasonic or NCR?

pinky




On the first remark, no, I dont think every us company should *ONLY* be allowed to hire Us citizens. I feel there needs to be some control mechanisms put into place and enforced to prevent massive offshoring to occur, on a per field basis. Some industries dont get hurt as much by offshoring, and some get hurt a lot. An industry that is currently already in catastrophic state should be a high priority to fix and therefore be limited in the amount of offshoring occuring to prevent massive losses in US jobs.

Obviously as I stated before it would be a very complex issue to tackle EXACTLY, and would require quite a bit of research and general investigation as to which things fall into this catagory, and how to pull each one out as you cannot just blanket every US / offshored job. There ARE instances that offshoring DOES benefit the country, sometimes in the short run, sometimes in the long run. But the TECH market is in red and needs to be addressed with say a high priority then, say, agriculture..

Keep in mind this was just an example as I have no real data on agriculture and its offshoring costs to US jobs.. etc.

Also, some companies with the way they offshore, only offshore tiny fractions of their entire companies, compared to the tech industry which usually offshores near everything except their highest level devlopers, and the management.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: 40 minutes of down time. [Re: Barbi]
    #2980504 - 08/09/04 04:22 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

On the second part which I completely missed replying to...

My ideal goal here would be a low unemployment rate, and keeping US money INSIDE the US if possible. We are a consumer country and it seems we spend way more then we sell. Keep in mind I said 'seems' before you go bitching for me to back up supposed data. I am merely expressing my view on how I perceieve things to be after 6 long hard years of job insecurity and bankrupcies along with layoffs due to offshoring, then witness'ing it first hand in a company that specializes in it.

If honda wants to build a plant here, And creates 5000 jobs for americans. That would be GREAT. Those americans are going to spend the majority of their money here in the US. Obviously, honda, a non-us company is making a profit somehow and money is going out of country to them, but they pay US taxes (I hope, I'm not sure on big business how taxation works exactly) which goes into OUR government, etc.
I foresee it being benefical to let a company move HERE, hire our workers, pay our taxes, etc, a lot moe then them just NOT moving here at all, negating all of the above, or having OUR copmanies outsource to another country.

IMO any company that is just 'headquartered' here, but overall generates the 'US' consisting of the people, the government, etc, any revenue, then they are all but useless.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Obama wants to Outlaw Offshore Tax-Avoidance Techniques
( 1 2 3 all )
Falcon91Wolvrn03 2,277 47 05/16/09 06:02 PM
by zappaisgod
* Bush's approval rating is at 40 percent. An all time low. 1stimer 1,604 12 09/20/05 02:29 PM
by zappaisgod
* Offshore outsourcing PprPlns 215 1 06/02/09 01:28 AM
by Falcon91Wolvrn03
* Let me vent for a minute AaronEvil 599 9 09/14/05 08:47 PM
by tak
* U.S. Helicopter Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Wedding Party
( 1 2 3 all )
Anonymous 3,928 46 05/28/04 06:17 PM
by Mushmonkey
* 40 Reasons For Gun Control
( 1 2 all )
Ellis Dee 5,888 31 10/08/13 02:05 AM
by Therian
* 40 Dead Americans - military would never let us hear of it dee_N_ae 672 17 03/28/03 06:38 PM
by Senor_Doobie
* If OIL prices rise above 40$ a barrel... carbonhoots 701 2 01/25/03 03:27 PM
by mntlfngrs

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
1,745 topic views. 2 members, 5 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.