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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
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why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait
    #2969256 - 08/05/04 08:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

a dime isn?t worth a dime!!!

I?m sure this has been brought up before, but might as well raise hell once again. this goes past right vs left here. I?m going to givey ou some background here so as you read later on, things will make a lot more sense. just use your common sense and you won?t get lost.


One day, I found a "real" (pre-1965) 90%-silver quarter in my change. And what did I do with it? I immediately withdrew it from circulation and stashed it! And why did I do that? Well, because it was WORTH a little more than twenty-five cents because of the increase in the intrinsic value of its silver content.

If we accept the premise that any piece of metal having a "face value" (declared or defined worth) greater than its actual intrinsic value is a "token" (bus token, subway token, toilet-stall token, etc.) then the "quarter dollar" token (the current cupro-nickel "clad" or "sandwich" quarter) [bad money] has sucessfully driven the 90%-silver quarter dollar [good money] out of circulation. How? Because almost everyone has done exactly what I had done:

we remove the remaining good money from circulation because we recognize its intrinsic value and save it and leave the less valuable [or worthless] tokens to circulate. We have done exactly the same thing with silver dimes, silver half-dollars, and silver dollars

That is also what we have done with the circulating FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE paper currency (scrip or bills of credit?) we have been brainwashed into calling ?dollars.? You won?t often see a circulating United States Note, Silver Certificate, or Gold Certificate.
So while, on one hand, we are all "ripping off" one another each time we exchange a FRN; on the other hand, the members of the private FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM are knowingly, willfully, and systematically cheating ALL of us each and every day.

Once upon a time, in these United States of America, we actually had REAL money, i.e., money which was, in and of itself, both a measure of, and a unit of, value.

For example, from Bouvier?s Law Dictionary (1856):


DOLLAR, money. A silver coin of the United States of the value of one hundred cents, or tenth part of an eagle.

EAGLE, money. A gold coin of the United States, of the value of ten dollars. It weighs two hundred and fifty-eight grains. Of one thousand parts, nine hundred are of pure gold, and one hundred of alloy. Act of January 18, 1837, 4 Sharsw. Cont. of Story?s L. U. S. 2523, 4. Vide Money.

MONEY. Gold, silver, and some other less precious metals, in the progress of civilization and commerce, have become the common standards of value; in order to avoid the delay and inconvenience of regulating their weight and quality whenever passed, the governments of the civilized world have caused them to be manufactured in certain portions, and marked with a Stamp which attests their value; this is called money. 1 Inst. 207; 1 Hale?s Hist. 188; 1 Pardess. n. 22; Dom. Lois civ. liv. prel. t. 3, s. 2, n. 6.

. . .

3. The constitution of the United States has vested in congress the power "to coin money, and regulate the value thereof." Art. 1, s. 8.

4. By virtue of this constitutional authority, the following provisions have been enacted by congress.

1. Act of April 2, 1792, 1 Story?s L. U. S. 229.

1. 9. That there shall be from time to time, struck and coined at the said mint, coins of gold, silver, and copper, of the following denominations, values, and descriptions, viz: Eagles; each to be of the value of ten dollars, or units, and to contain two hundred and forty-seven grains and four-eighths of a grain of pure, or two hundred and seventy grains of standard, gold. Half eagles; each to be of the value of five dollars, and to contain one hundred and twenty-three grains and six-eighths of a pure, or one hundred and thirty-five grains of standard gold. Quarter eagles; each to be of the value of two dollars and a half dollar, and to contain sixty-one grains and seven-eighths of a grain of pure, or sixty-seven grains and four-eighths of a grain of standard gold. Dollars, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled dollar, as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard silver. Half dollars; each to be of half the value of the dollar or unit, and to contain one hundred and eighty-five grains and ten-sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or two hundred and eight grains of standard, silver. Quarter dollars; each to be of one-fourth the value of the dollar, or unit, and to contain ninety-two grains and thirteen-sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or one hundred and four grains of standard, silver. Dimes; each to be of the value of one-tenth of a dollar, or unit, and to contain thirty-seven grains and two sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or forty-one grains and three-fifth parts of a grain of standard, silver. Half dimes; each to be of the value of one-twentieth of dollar, and to contain eighteen grains and nine-sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or twenty grains and four-fifth parts of a grain of standard, silver. Cents; each to be of the value of the one-hundredth part of a dollar, and to contain eleven pennyweights of copper. Half cents; each to be of the value of half a cent, and to contain five pennyweights and, a half a pennyweight of copper.

5. - 10. That upon the said coins, respectively, there shall be the following devises and legends, namely: Upon one side of each of the said coins there shall be an impression emblematic of liberty, with an inscription of the word liberty, and the year of the coinage; and, upon the reverse of each of the gold and silver coins, there shall be the figure or representation of an eagle, with this inscription, "United States of America:" and, upon the reverse of each of the copper coins there shall be an inscription which shall express the denomination of the piece, namely, cent or half cent, as the case may require.

6. - 11. That the proportional value of gold to silver in all coins which shall, by law, be current as money within the United States, shall be as fifteen to one, according to quantity in weight, of pure gold or pure silver; that is to say, every fifteen pounds weight of pure silver shall be of equal value in all payments, with one pound weight of pure gold; and so in proportion, as to any greater or less quantities of the respective metals.

7. - 12. That the standard for all gold coins of the United States, shall be eleven parts fine to one part alloy: and accordingly, that eleven parts in twelve, of the entire weight of each of the said coins, shall consist of pure gold, and the remaining one-twelfth part of alloy; and the said alloy shall be composed of silver and copper in such proportions, not exceeding one-half silver, as shall be found convenient; to be regulated by the director of the mint for the time being, With the approbation of the president of the United States, until further provision shall be made by law. And to the end that the necessary information may be had in order to the making of such further provision, it shall be the duty of the director of the mint, at the expiration of a year after commencing the operations of the said mint, to report to congress the practice thereof during the said year, touching the composition of the alloy of the said gold coins, the reasons for such practice, and the experiments and observations which shall have been made concerning the effects of different proportions of silver and copper in the said alloy.

8. - 13. That the standard for all silver coins of the United States, shall be one thousand four hundred and eighty-five parts fine to one hundred and seventy-nine parts alloy; and, accordingly, that one thousand four hundred and eighty-five parts in one thousand six hundred and sixty-four parts, of the entire weight of each of the said coins, shall consist of pure silver, and the remaining one hundred and seventy nine parts of alloy, which alloy shall be wholly of copper.

9. - 2. Act of June 28, 1834, 4 Sharsw. Cont. of Story?s Laws U. S. 2376. 1. That the gold coins of the United States shall contain the following quantities of metal, that is to say:

each eagle shall contain two hundred and thirty-two grains of pure gold, and two hundred and fifty-eight grains of standard gold;

each half-eagle, one hundred and sixteen grains of pure gold, and one hundred and twenty-nine grains of standard gold;

each quarter eagle shall contain fifty-eight grains of pure gold, and sixty-four and a half grains of standard gold;

every such eagle shall be of the value of ten dollars; every such half eagle shall be of the value of five dollars;

and every such quarter eagle shall be of the value of two dollars and fifty cents;

and the said gold coins shall be receivable in all payments, when of full weight, according to their respective values; and when of less than full weight, at less values, proportioned to their respective actual weights. ..."

Wouldn?t you think that the National Institute of Standards and Technology would have a physical THING called the Standard Dollar that they could point to, pick up, show around, and say, "Yep, this is a Dollar."? OK; try to find it, I couldn?t.

What I did find is Title 31, United States Code Annotated (2004), section 5102:


"The standard troy pound of the National Institute of Standards and Technology of the Department of Commerce shall be the standard used to ensure that the weight of United States coins conforms to specifications in section 5112 of this title."

Then I looked at 31 U.S.C.A. (2004), section 5112, which reads (in part):

(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weights 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(b). . .

Did you notice that the dollar coin in 31 U.S.C.A. 5112(a)(1) is the only coin that has no weight attributed to it?

During The Revolutionary War, the Continental Congress authorized the printing of paper "money" called "Continentals", which depreciated in perceived value [inflated] so quickly and so badly that, soon, they were "not worth a Continental".

During the pre- and post-Revolutionary War periods, the Colonies and these United States of America chose to use Spanish and Mexican Reales [called "Pieces of Eight"] as a currency, partly because they did not yet have their own coinage; because the Reale held its Value; because they had just gone through an unsuccessful experiment with paper "money" and its inflation; and because they definitely were NOT going to continue to use the English Pound

After the States united under the Articles of Confederation created the United States of America under the Constitution of 1791, they delegated to Congress the complementary powers to (1) establish the Value of a Dollar and (2) to mint and circulate said Dollars.

Congress, in The Coinage Act of 1792, established, by definition, a Dollar as a certain weight of silver, shaped into a coin ["minted"], and placed into circulation; and authorized the minting of the first United States of America silver Dollars, gold ?Eagles?, and silver and copper fractional coins.

During the American Civil War, the Union government did not have enough silver or gold bullion to mint enough money [dollars] to pay the costs of the war in Lawful Money, so it unconstitutionally printed, not minted, the first United States of America paper currency: United States Treasury Notes (called "Greenbacks") under the Doctrine of "Necessity" (if we have to do it to survive, it is "necessary" and, hence, justifiable).



You will notice that this piece of paper is NOT 5 Dollars; but it has the appearance of a conditional Promissory Note (a Negotiable Instrument); i.e., a Promise to pay 5 Dollars to the Bearer limited by the condition that the bearer may redeem the Note in lawful money at the United States Treasury in New York. And we do not know how much trouble it might have been to travel to New York during the Civil War.

To be legally valid, a Promissory Note must be in writing and must have these necessary elements:
1. A firm promise to pay (by the payor)
2. A Definite sum of money
3. A recipient [the payee]
4. A definite date when such definite sum of money is due and payable
5. The signature of the Note maker (the payor).


the civil war era


from Tax Analyst?s Taxation Museum


"The Civil War represented a watershed moment in the history of American taxation. The quick, limited engagement both sides confidently predicted soon proved a chimera. Instead, the exigencies of protracted, destructive warfare "engulfing private property and civilian populations as well as commissioned combatants" demanded innovations in government financing. While the outcome of the conflict may be attributed to any number of contingent factors, the varying fiscal strategies undertaken by the Union and Confederate governments undoubtedly influenced the capacity of both societies to sustain the war effort. North and South employed markedly different approaches. The North?s proved more efficacious in the long run....


"In order for the bond program to be successful, the North needed an unrestricted currency supply for citizens to pay for them and a source of income to guarantee the interest. The Legal Tender Act filled the first requirement. Passed in February, 1862, the Act authorized the issue of $150 million in Treasury notes, known as Greenbacks. In contrast to Confederate paper, however, Congress required citizens, banks, and governments to accept Greenbacks as legal tender for public and private debts, except for interest on federal bonds and customs duties. This policy allowed buyers to purchase bonds with greenbacks while the interest accrued to them was paid in gold (funded, in part, by specie payments of customs duties). Investors enjoyed a bountiful windfall, since government securities purchased with depreciated currency were redeemed with gold valued at the pre-war level. Taxpayers essentially made up the difference. Because most bonds were acquired by the wealthy or by financial institutions, the program concentrated investment capital in the hands of those likely to use it, much as Alexander Hamilton?s debt plan had sought to do. ...


The Internal Revenue Act of 1862, enacted by Congress in July, 1862, soaked up much of the inflationary pressure produced by Greenbacks. It did so because the Act placed excise taxes on just about everything, including sin and luxury items like liquor, tobacco, playing cards, carriages, yachts, billiard tables, and jewelry. It taxed patent medicines and newspaper advertisements. It imposed license taxes on practically every profession or service except the clergy. It instituted stamp taxes, value-added taxes on manufactured goods and processed meats, inheritance taxes, taxes on the gross receipts of corporations, banks, and insurance companies, as well as taxes on dividends or interest they paid to investors. To administer these excise taxes, along with the tariff system, the Internal Revenue Act also created a Bureau of Internal Revenue, whose first commissioner, George Boutwell, described it as "the largest Government department ever organized." ...
The first federal income tax in American history actually preceded the Internal Revenue Act of 1862. Passed in August, 1861, it had helped assure the financial community that the government would have a reliable source of income to pay the interest on war bonds."





Theoretically, the present-day "income tax" may still be being used to provide security for the repayment of the United State?s outstanding obligations and to soak up the inflationary pressure of fiat money. "Taxpayers" would then be being treated as the surety or collateral for the debts of the United States.

After the Civil War, Congress recalled the Greenbacks from circulation and re-authorized the minting of silver and gold Dollars.

After 1913, the first Federal Reserve Notes were introduced into circulation.



A Federal Reserve Note, Redeemable in Gold, dated 1928.



A Federal Reserve Note, Redeemable in lawful money, dated 1934.

You will notice that these Notes were Redeemable in Gold or in Lawful Money.
Obviously, if something is Redeemable in Gold or Lawful Money, it is NOT, and CANNOT be, either Gold or lawful money.

Federal Reserve Notes may have been construed by the courts to be "Legal Tender" [see the United States Supreme Court "Legal Tender Cases": Hepburn v. Griswold, 75 U.S. 603, Knox v. Lee, and Parker v. Davis, 79 U.S. 457], but they are not, and cannot ever be declared to be, lawful money.

That is legally impossible, no matter what the Supreme Court might wish.

I?ll define the dollar in just a little bit, but a little information at a time, this is a general overview. I will show later how even the weight of what we consider a dime isn?t what it is supposed to be worth and how Congress unlawfully and unconstitutionally gave the Federal Reserve (a private company) the right to mint coinage.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Anonymous

Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: kaiowas]
    #2969433 - 08/05/04 08:55 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

did you know the until only recently, it was illegal for private citizens to own gold?

it's still illegal to attempt to use gold as one would regular money.

here's an article...

gold

JFK apparently tried to shutdown the federal reserve bank and even had some US notes, backed in bullion, printed by the treasury. lord knows who he pissed off with that one.

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm

"On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. The Christian Law Fellowship has exhaustively researched this matter through the Federal Register and Library of Congress. We can now safely conclude that this Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superceded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid.

When President John Fitzgerald Kennedy - the author of Profiles in Courage -signed this Order, it returned to the federal government, specifically the Treasury Department, the Constitutional power to create and issue currency -money - without going through the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. President Kennedy's Executive Order 11110 [the full text is displayed further below] gave the Treasury Department the explicit authority: "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury." This means that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation based on the silver bullion physically held there. As a result, more than $4 billion in United States Notes were brought into circulation in $2 and $5 denominations. $10 and $20 United States Notes were never circulated but were being printed by the Treasury Department when Kennedy was assassinated. It appears obvious that President Kennedy knew the Federal Reserve Notes being used as the purported legal currency were contrary to the Constitution of the United States of America.

"United States Notes" were issued as an interest-free and debt-free currency backed by silver reserves in the U.S. Treasury. We compared a "Federal Reserve Note" issued from the private central bank of the United States (the Federal Reserve Bank a/k/a Federal Reserve System), with a "United States Note" from the U.S. Treasury issued by President Kennedy's Executive Order. They almost look alike, except one says "Federal Reserve Note" on the top while the other says "United States Note". Also, the Federal Reserve Note has a green seal and serial number while the United States Note has a red seal and serial number.

President Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963 and the United States Notes he had issued were immediately taken out of circulation. Federal Reserve Notes continued to serve as the legal currency of the nation. According to the United States Secret Service, 99% of all U.S. paper "currency" circulating in 1999 are Federal Reserve Notes."



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Anonymous

Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: ]
    #2969486 - 08/05/04 09:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Great article kaiowas (though I already knew much of that already) :thumbup:

mushmaster I still have a few of those notes myself... $2 bills no less. :cool:


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: kaiowas]
    #2969580 - 08/05/04 09:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

and without gold or silver to back it up...the value of a dollar becomes a function of the total inventory of products under US sovereignty...this means that a dollar depreciates in value whenever wealth is consumed.. ie if i spend $5 on a pack of cigarettes..it becomes $5 worth of inflation after the cigarettes are gone...this simple fact has a whole host of ominous social ramifications..since it means that strict government controls must be imposed against the population in order to curtail their inflationary spending habbits...this could explain the war on drugs.. as well as economic policy which increases production yet cuts purchasing power...

BTW..guess who owns the federal reserve??...yes..virginia..they got us back...


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Anonymous

Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2969688 - 08/05/04 10:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

the value of a dollar becomes a function of the total inventory of products under US sovereignty...this means that a dollar depreciates in value whenever wealth is consumed.. ie if i spend $5 on a pack of cigarettes..it becomes $5 worth of inflation after the cigarettes are gone...

that's true, but fortunately we are producing more than we are destroying through consumption. to earn the $5 to spend on the pack of cigs, someone had to do produce something. the amount of wealth, in terms of actual goods and services, is increasing, not decreasing, so your example isn't terribly pertinent in our situation... yet there is still inflation, not because we are running out of the material goods cash is exchanged for, but because there is more and more and more currency in circulation.

since it means that strict government controls must be imposed against the population in order to curtail their inflationary spending habbits...

not really.

this could explain the war on drugs

not really again.

as well as economic policy which increases production yet cuts purchasing power...

hah!

there is a direct corellation between production and purchasing power. what sort of economic policies are you talking about? how is this economic contradiction accomplished?  :confused:


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: ]
    #2969740 - 08/05/04 10:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i think this thread should be sticky for a while.

excelent.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: ]
    #2969918 - 08/05/04 10:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

since it means that strict government controls must be imposed against the population in order to curtail their inflationary spending habbits...

not really.

this could explain the war on drugs

not really again.




why not really??...as in the case of the cigs..the $$$ spent on drugs is itself inflationary..and from my own experience as a drug user..i also tend to incur many more non-drug inflationary costs when im on drugs...if it is necessary to curtail inflationary spending..drugs wouldnt be a bad place to start...

but in a classic right-wing race to the bottom..the govts success against drugs drives the drug prices higher..which in turn makes them more inflationary..which then creates a need for further acceleration...

of particular interest here is the healthcare costs related to drug use..since that cost cannot be monetized unless the patients' labour value can cover the cost in a given time frame.. otherwise it again becomes inflation...

Quote:

as well as economic policy which increases production yet cuts purchasing power...

hah!

there is a direct corellation between production and purchasing power. what sort of economic policies are you talking about? how is this economic contradiction accomplished?




i dont have a link right off the top of my head..but if im not mistaken..productivity and corporate profits have skyrocketed in recent years..while at the same time..as john kerry constantly reminds us..median incomes went down $9000...the net effect is that inventories increase while consumption (ie depreciation) decreases...


Edited by Annapurna1 (08/05/04 11:05 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2969951 - 08/05/04 11:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Annapurna1 writes:

.as john kerry constantly reminds us..incomes went down $9000...

And as Kerry constantly does, he is talking out his ass on this one too. Incomes have not decreased by $9,000 or even by $9.00. They have increased.

pinky


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: Phred]
    #2969975 - 08/05/04 11:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

that may be true..if your haliburton..GE..lockheed-martin..exxon..etc...otherwise..im inclined to believe sen kerry...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2969987 - 08/05/04 11:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

yes, you're inclined. Clearly.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2970016 - 08/05/04 11:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

See, there's the difference between us. When a politician says something, I check it out. It's certainly easy enough to do. You, on the other hand, accept whatever Kerry says as the unvarnished truth -- with no effort made to check it -- while simultaneously rejecting everything Bush says as a lie -- again with no effort made to check it.

And you call me "brainwashed".

pinky


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2970065 - 08/05/04 11:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
why not really??...as in the case of the cigs..the $$$ spent on drugs is itself inflationary..and from my own experience as a drug user..i also tend to incur many more non-drug inflationary costs when im on drugs...if it is necessary to curtail inflationary spending..drugs wouldnt be a bad place to start...

but in a classic right-wing race to the bottom..the govts success against drugs drives the drug prices higher..which in turn makes them more inflationary..which then creates a need for further acceleration...



You seem to be confusing the rise in currency denominated prices brought about by the devaluation of currency through the inflation of the money supply with the rise in the value of goods brought about by scarcity. Of course both factors are at work when there is an inflationary monetary policy and a decrease in the availability of goods in relation to demand. What the common man terms 'inflation' is his observation of the rise of prices, but this is usually a result of inflation, it is not inflation. Since the value of goods is normally considered in monetary units, it is understandable that confusion should arise as to what causes the rise in prices.

So, two seperate mechanisms can contribute to the rise in prices. The first one, manipulation of the money supply is the topic of this thread.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: Evolving]
    #2970086 - 08/05/04 11:28 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

thank you evolving! indeed money manipulation is what I am referrig too. it is interesting to note the clear cut definition of what money is, I'll be posting on that shortly, just wanted to get some basics out of the way first so we can all somewhat be on the same page

thanks for all of your replies so far. I really don't want an arguemtn in here, jsut a discussion of ideas. talking about kerry and bush doesn't need to be here, it's a little more than that in my view anyway.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisible2Experimental
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Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: kaiowas]
    #2970102 - 08/05/04 11:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I thought all money in circulation was backed by gold?

I can see why they did not want people to actually use gold as money though ... with paper money we really do live an illusion, what really IS 5 dollars... is that whopper really worth a few grams of your gold? add the problem that gold is heavy and takes up space, it can be seen why we went to paper....


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: Phred]
    #2970104 - 08/05/04 11:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
See, there's the difference between us. When a politician says something, I check it out. It's certainly easy enough to do. You, on the other hand, accept whatever Kerry says as the unvarnished truth -- with no effort made to check it -- while simultaneously rejecting everything Bush says as a lie -- again with no effort made to check it.

And you call me "brainwashed".

pinky




first of all..i never called you brainwashed (does a neocon have anything to wash??).. and bush is no longer a universal liar either ..

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...part=1&vc=1

second of all..i believe JKs $9000 mantra from my own experiences and those of my freinds and FOAFs...you..OTOH..havent given me any reason not to...


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: kaiowas]
    #2970173 - 08/06/04 12:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

money makes you a slave to this racist plutocracy we call america


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[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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OfflineMAGnum
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Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: kaiowas]
    #2970726 - 08/06/04 02:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

No, America isn't rascist! We've just never had a black presidant.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: MAGnum]
    #2970733 - 08/06/04 02:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

And we will never have a black presidant.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineBarbi
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Registered: 04/22/02
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Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: kaiowas]
    #2971032 - 08/06/04 07:14 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm curious as to the real point of this. Should we go back to a barter system?

Everyone knows the barter system doesnt work, hence why we have a common currency. Currency is valued at whatever the populace wants it to be. Gold isnt worth shit if no one wants gold.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: why the money you now have isn't worth a dime..oh wait [Re: Barbi]
    #2971074 - 08/06/04 08:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

gold IS worth shit because people want gold... they just want paper to represent it... me personally wish they used hash or maybe LSD as the thing paper money represented... now wouldent THAT be revolutionary


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