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Anonymous

homeland security?
    #2968633 - 08/05/04 05:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i was just talking to my father and he told me about something i thought was very disturbing. he was driving his truck with a trailer attached over the weekend, and a state policeman pulled him over.

it was a random "homeland securtity" stop. the officer told him this and that he "had to take a look in the trailer".

as far as i know, he wasn't asking for permission. he was telling. of course, my dad, being an upright citizen with nothing to hide, let the cop peek around and was on his way a short while later...

what the hell is that? a random search of a vehicle? no warrant or probable cause?

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: homeland security? [Re: ]
    #2968963 - 08/05/04 06:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Don't worry. Your government knows what's best for you. Now stop asking questions. You wouldn't want people thinking you're a terrorist, would you?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: homeland security? [Re: ]
    #2969005 - 08/05/04 06:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

They have been allowed to randomly search commercial vehicles for decades. Every time you see a weigh station on the highway it is a random search. They have to produce manifests and driver logs. It is not the same at all. Now your father may have been driving a pick-up with a trailer but if he had commercial plates he is, I believe, fair game for a search. The trailer alone may be enough if it looks overloaded.


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Anonymous

Re: homeland security? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2969070 - 08/05/04 07:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Now your father may have been driving a pick-up with a trailer but if he had commercial plates he is, I believe, fair game for a search.

no commercial plates.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: homeland security? [Re: ]
    #2969077 - 08/05/04 07:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Then I agree, it seems pretty fucked up. I wonder what would've happened if he told the cop to fuck-off. I've refused a search before and nothing happened.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: homeland security? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2969119 - 08/05/04 07:29 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Searches without warrants should always be refused. This really is bullshit.

In Texas, any ticketable offense is also arrestable. If they pull you over and ask to search and you refuse, they just arrest you. Since they have to then tow your vehicle, they must take an inventory (aka search).

Edit - They have to at least have probable cause to stop you though in those cases.

HAHAHA! All of this talk about mispeaking has me fucked up. I had put "....least have probably cause...".

/retarded


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (08/05/04 07:36 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: homeland security? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2969134 - 08/05/04 07:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

A broken taillight?????


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: homeland security? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2969150 - 08/05/04 07:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well having one out is ticketable though you'll usually only get a warning. It really depends on what the cop feels like. But yeah, presumably they could get away with it if they wanted.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Anonymous

Re: homeland security? [Re: ]
    #2969226 - 08/05/04 08:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i've got mixed feelings about this.

first off, it is a constitutional violation. if this sort of thing is official procedure, simply encouraged, or even tolerated, i've got a problem with it because of that alone. even if there was some unconstitutional government action that i supported, i'd be suggesting that we amend the constitution, not allow it to be violated.

when the bill of rights was drafted, there was no such thing as chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, or even high explosives. the gasoline we put in our cars on a weekly basis is far more dangerous than anything available back then. i think it's definitely possible that this day in age, greater search powers may be necessary. the game has changed significantly.

why do we have protection of privacy against the government? i see the purpose as this.... it is meant to actually allow citizens to get away with breaking the law. it is a limit on government power not in that it simply prevents us from being searched, but it allows us to avoid detection and prosecution for breaking the laws the government has set. it's entire purpose it founded on the assumption that the government will not play nice. the drug war is a perfect example. while our right to use drugs is unfortunately not specifically constitutionally protected, the 4th amendment helps us quite a bit...

if you're innocent, you shouldn't have anything to hide, but they come after the innocent too.


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OfflineCyber
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Re: homeland security? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2969352 - 08/05/04 08:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
Searches without warrants should always be refused. This really is bullshit.

In Texas, any ticketable offense is also arrestable. If they pull you over and ask to search and you refuse, they just arrest you. Since they have to then tow your vehicle, they must take an inventory (aka search).






Ill correct you on this one!

In Texas they will TELL you that they can arrest you and tow your car then search it in impound.

I have turned down searches in Texas. The officer tells you the above and most people will submit to the search. But I looked at the officer and responded "And my attorney will have you in court so fast your head will spin. I pay his retainer every month anyway so it is no cash out of my pocket!" I then opened my wallet and handed him a card (out of a stack of cards) for my attorney.
He then thanked me and gave me a warning about driving too fast and how I needed to slow it down.

I may have an advantage that I was in slacks, a dress shirt, and tie. So he may have taken me a little more serious that others.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: homeland security? [Re: Cyber]
    #2969637 - 08/05/04 09:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm positive that any offense is arrestable. And as such, they can do as I've stated. There is a well known defense attourney who has a radio show here where he has talked about it.

I'm not saying they always do it, and I know they will sometimes bluff about it, but it is certainly within their power.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: homeland security? [Re: ]
    #2973009 - 08/06/04 07:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure about the legality of searching commercial vehicles, however I do know that police DO NOT have the right to search your person without your permission although they will try to do it anyways unless you clearly, loudly and continuously state "I DO NOT CONSENT TO A SEARCH." It is always a good idea to say that in any situation whether they have the "right" to search you or not, because it it turns out they don't you can sue thier asses for ignoring your lack of consent.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: homeland security? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2973171 - 08/06/04 08:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

that might be true in canada...but my understanding here is that your fair game...


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