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OfflineTwirling
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So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High?
    #2968609 - 08/05/04 03:24 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

So far the only explanations I've heard are people talking about how the War In Iraq is creating a shortage which is raising prices, but that's from people who have little awareness of such things. The best explanation I've heard is either that OPEC is raising prices because of the cost of insurance for oil rigs & such, or that it's being used more as a politcal distraction to detract people's minds off from what's happening in the war. It's a little too much of a conspiracy theory for me, but at this point nothing surprises me. :shiftyeyes:

Does anyone have a good explanation?

And isn't it funny how little people talk about it now that it's leveled off? We react to news in such an emotional fashion with such little attention spans.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.


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Anonymous

Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Twirling]
    #2968638 - 08/05/04 03:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Does anyone have a good explanation?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Twirling]
    #2968657 - 08/05/04 03:34 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I have heard from various analysts that the biggest reason is that Putin has arrested the head of Yukos, the giant Russian oil co. and there is real fear that it may shut down or limit production. The OPEC nations have increased production lately but this will take a little time to affect the market.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Twirling]
    #2968665 - 08/05/04 03:36 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

it seems to me from what I've seen that rises in gas prices cannot be consistently attributed to current events, and the difference now and say, 20 years ago, cannot be attributed to inflation + events alone.

My guess is just that some really rich people are getting really greedy, but thats just a guess

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Twirling]
    #2968671 - 08/05/04 03:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

because people with money in oil are voting for Bush in blind self-interest.

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OfflineTwirling
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: vampirism]
    #2968731 - 08/05/04 03:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
My guess is just that some really rich people are getting really greedy, but thats just a guess




Well that's one thing that remains a constant.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Twirling]
    #2968737 - 08/05/04 03:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

well, in particular, the really really rich people controlling gas prices

damn those oligopolies /shakes fist

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: vampirism]
    #2968979 - 08/05/04 04:37 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Front page of the business section of the NY Times had an anlysis of the volatility and rise in prices on the oil futures market. The gist of the article is that a lot of players are dissatisfied with the static equity and bond markets and are looking to improve their returns speculating in energy. They specificly mentioned hedge funds (the rich people) and pension funds (the other people). This makes for a very volatile market (average daily change, up or down, is close to 2%). It is a very risky business and if the price increases people will cut back consumption and some speculators will be left holding a very empty bag.

As a side note, "Saudi Arabia said that it would start pumping crude oil from new fields three months ahead of schedule and that it would delay the closing of some wells." Gasoline inventories have also grown by 2.4 million barrels to 210.1 million barrels, both of which which pushed prices lower today. The Michael Moores of the world will no doubt scream that the Saudis are doing this to influence the election, but YOU won't be fooled, will you?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Twirling]
    #2969279 - 08/05/04 06:13 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I heard it is because China and many other countries are now starting to use WAY more oil as they industrialize.

More oil for China = less oil for everybody else.

Less oil for everybody else = more money for oil.

More money for oil = fuck this is getting annoying.

Its time to start spending some of our nation's military money on developing cleaner, safer, and more easily-available energy sources.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2969360 - 08/05/04 06:31 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Take all the money from farm subsidies and put it toward research. Military spending is a legitimate use of federal funds, business subsidies are not, and I'm not sure this research is but I don't think business will do it in time and it needs to be done.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2969384 - 08/05/04 06:37 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

haha money has no value, you just think it does.

the politics are jsut there to confuse you and to keep you from knowing the truth.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2969438 - 08/05/04 06:56 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

If enough people think it does, it does


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: ]
    #2969488 - 08/05/04 07:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
Does anyone have a good explanation?






it's almost 50% in taxes now... 2003 and 2004 brought more new gas taxes

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Offlinefelix
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Twirling]
    #2970835 - 08/06/04 01:54 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

i don't know the answer or anything, i've just noticed that with each passing day, oil per barrel (from russia i think) is closing at an increasing price. i think it's up to about 46$ a barrel? i don't know why...


--------------------
Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: felix]
    #2971160 - 08/06/04 07:44 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

We don't get most of our oil from the middle east. argentia/chili (asdf forget which) has a lot of the oil we use.

So, 9/10/01 I filled my car up with gas. It was, if I remember, about .85/gal. The very next afternoon it was 1.29/gal.

Ain't that some speculative pricing right there.

Then the south american oil workers went on strike. Another 20-30 cents a gallon.
Then the whole Iraq thing happened. Again, another 20-30 cents a gallon.

The price of gas is pretty much.. unaffected by these things. It's all about the public's perception. If there's the flimsiest excuse to raise prices, and if it's believed that Americans will still buy their gas.. guess what that price is going up.

I will admit, a bit of the price is due to the lack of american refineries. "Not in my back yard" means we all pay a bit more, since there's less oil being refined and it has to be shipped farther away to get to us..

but largely the price is all bullshit.

Honestly thing about it. What excuse is there for gas going up or down at a gas station overnight.

They've already payed for that gas. They did when it was delivered.
If they raise the price, that's all profits for them.. extra profits. And there's no guarentee that by the time they need to refill their gas pumps next, that the price will still be that high. Higher? Well maybe that, but I'd bet if you'd match things up it's probably usually lower on delivery, higher after, and back down for delivery.

All well and good in a free market, except I wouldn't call the oil/gas industry really a free and open market, and I don't think that it's quite right to let something like gasoline prices be dictated thusly. For the vast majority of Americans, living is IMPOSSIBLE without gasoline -- to get to work, to get to the store, to do anything. We're dependant. Junkies. You CAN live without a car, but only if you live somewhere that you can walk everywhere you need to be. For most of the country, that is not true. Hell the nearest Walmart to me is about 2 miles away, I work 25 miles away, and while 2 miles isn't totally unreasonable, 25 is totally impossible without a car. And there's really.. no jobs closer.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Twirling]
    #2971233 - 08/06/04 08:17 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2972330 - 08/06/04 02:49 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
So, 9/10/01 I filled my car up with gas. It was, if I remember, about .85/gal. The very next afternoon it was 1.29/gal.




actually, according to the D.O.E., your memory sucks.

In 9/2001 gas was around $1.50 per gallon. Except for late 1988, early 1999.... gas has been above $1.00 since at least the early 1990's. (U.S. Regular Conventional Retail Gasoline Prices)

And if you adjust for inflation, gas is below $0.70 in 1979 dollars.

so let's all stop whining.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (08/06/04 02:55 PM)

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2972769 - 08/06/04 04:45 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

actually, according to the D.O.E., your memory sucks.

In 9/2001 gas was around $1.50 per gallon. Except for late 1988, early 1999.... gas has been above $1.00 since at least the early 1990's. (U.S. Regular Conventional Retail Gasoline Prices)






Sorry, no, it was definately under 1 buck a gallon. Absolutely 100%.

1.50 a gallon BEFORE 9/11?
Maybe in California or Nevada.

Sure as HELL not in Alabama.

It was under $1 a gallon.. and that's American. The very DAY before the 9/11 attack.

The south has basically bottom-rate prices for gasoline. Right now I think regular's 1.75 (not in 'bama, in the northeast somewhere).. chances are it's at least 10 cents below that down south. Probably 1.50 a gallon right now in certain areas in georgia/tennessee.

Just because you're paying over $2/gal doesn't mean everyone is. Most of that is taxes, the rest is inflated price for living around so many other damned smelly people (that's demand).

Seriously.. I know what I'm talkin about here. I put 12 bucks into a 1990 Lumina Euro, 16.4 gal tank, and it was full. Work out the math on that (the tank wasn't quite totally empty, a bit below 1/4 a tank).
that works out to 80-90 cents a gallon.

Don't believe me, fine.. whatever. I'm not making this shit up. Overnight the price of gasoline jumped by about 50%, in every gas station around. It continued to rise for several months, then stabilized, and started slowly coming down a few cents a week, went back up when the Argentines went on strike, stabilized, started moving back down, shot back up when we went into Iraq (again overnight), and now we're just about back to the present day.

btw that link blows. I don't have excel. why they can't just make a .html document, we'll never know.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2974860 - 08/07/04 07:32 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

THE PRICE OF GAS
In 1980 $1.35 per gallon

1980 price adjusted for inflation $2.78 per gallon

In 2004 $2.08 per gallon

web page

And in South Carolina gas was above a dollar in 1990.

And another link showing gas at around a buck a gallon in the 80's. See the chart.



Figures from the Montana Department of Environmental Quality show that drivers shelled out the equivalent of $2.73 per gallon in 2004 dollars in 1981 after adjusting the $1.31 price for inflation.

Had enough? Too put it bluntly, you remember wrong.



--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (08/07/04 07:45 AM)

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2975148 - 08/07/04 11:27 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I remember when gas was $.79/gallon in 1999

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2975250 - 08/07/04 12:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

The web page you link said california.

California's gas is regularly twice that of the national average.

The gas I'm talking about is regularly, and still, well below the national average. This isn't gas from a station next to a major interstate highway, this isn't in a state with draconian taxes, this isn't near a major metropolitan center of population.


Something else all that information won't have, but that I remember.
When Sheetz opened a new gas station in my home town, they had a price war with the local Turkey Hill.

Gas got down to about 58 CENTS a gallon, for one day. For about two months it was around 70 cents a gallon.
This was in '98/'99.

I know what those numbers are showing, and what I'm saying is those numbers are flawed. I don't buy gas any of the places that have high gas prices.. because I don't (and won't) live there.

BTW -- 1990?

Don't you remember what was goin on right around then?

That's right.. the first war in Iraq.

All through high school (late 90's), I was paying under $1 a gallon.

I'm not saying that's the national average, it's an anecdotal lil personal story. It is, however, true.

btw california should never be mentioned when discussing gasoline prices. not only are their taxes off the wall, they also have many, many people who are entirely dependant upon gasoline for their day-to-day lives, and many people who have fought very hard to stop refineries from opening (which would lower prices) and indeed to close existing refineries (which would raise prices).

I don't see why you're calling me a liar. All the evidence you've come up with doesn't prove that I'm not telling the truth -- in fact, the very fact that those AVERAGES are slightly higher than the numbers I've given I think lends credence to my veracity.

As I've mentioned, these are not major centers of population, nor are they very close to major routes of transportation, nor are they in states with high gasoline taxes.

6/11/04 at my local gas station: 1.899/g regular
currently: about 1.759/g regular

compare that to your gas prices and the national average. it should be lower. Now, I still keep in touch with my friends in 'bama, and their prices are consistantly 10 to 15 cents less a gallon than what I pay here. Don't believe me? Fine.. don't. But if you've ever been to the southeast corner of this country, I think you probably noticed gas is cheap. Now, imagine if you were an hour away from the nearest major interstate (I-65).

Cost of living is lower. Everything's cheaper. Wages, too, are lower, but we're not discussing gasoline as a portion of your income, but merely as a set price per gallon.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2975377 - 08/07/04 01:06 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

One of the links was from California. You seem to have missed the others.

Feel free to provide some of your own backing what you say.

Perhaps you would also pint out where I called you a liar while you're at it. I've HAVE said you remember wrong and that your memory sucks. Do those words translate to liar where you live? If they do than perhaps your skills with money suck as bad as the skill with words you've just shown. I think it's been demonstrated that that when I think someone has lied I say so.

In those days I lived in NJ. Ever been there? Refinery central. Low transportation cost to deliver fuel. I'm well aware gas prices vary. Frankly that was a pretty foolish statement.

Now.... if you can back up your statement.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2975678 - 08/07/04 02:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

"In those days I lived in NJ. Ever been there? Refinery central. Low transportation cost to deliver fuel. I'm well aware gas prices vary. Frankly that was a pretty foolish statement."

If you lived in Jersey, you should know that if you drive about 45 minutes to the west, cigarette prices drop by half, your car insurance drops by about half as well, and gas prices drop 10 to 20 cents on the gallon.

I won't try to back up my statements because I know my own memory. Fuzzy, sometimes, but there are many things that I remember and do not forget even the most specific detail.

The fact of the matter is, I know, and you know, that it would be completely futile to find how much gas cost at a specific gas station several years ago. Records are not that well-kept. Things are all averaged.

If you want to prove me wrong, look up the price of gasoline for the susquehanna valley / harrisburg suburban sprawl for 1995-1999, and the price of gasoline in northern alabama for 1999-2002.

I believe in Florence, AL.. right now.. gas costs under 1.70/gal. Haven't talked to anyone there about GAS for a while, but last I heard it was actually MORE than 5 cents below what my current local price was, and it's at 1.759 right now. I'm being conservative with that 1.70 guess.

All that aside, I believe there's at least one other person here who would back up my claim that gas HAS been under $1.00 a gallon recently.

Gas in the South is far, far cheaper than any you'll find in Jersey. Jersey's a very demo-libbie state, with high taxes and a lot of traffic. Both of those factors drive the price of local gas up -- taxes and demand. It may be far cheaper than California's gas, but it's not CHEAP gas. I'd never buy gas in Jersey. It's cheaper 3 hours west, where I live now.


In fact I do also recall hearing news reports of shocking and alarming high gas prices on the west coast. It made me smile. I had been bitching about how high gas was down in 'bama at the time, and was paying nearly half as much per gallon.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2975689 - 08/07/04 02:34 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I won't try to back up my statements




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2976940 - 08/07/04 10:52 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

.. sigh.

read the rest of my post.

I don't have the time nor desire to look up something as trivial as the price of gasoline at a sheetz along 422 in central PA in 1998-1999.
In fact I'm pretty sure that is not something that can be found.

In fact it cannot be found. Though it was on local and state news, I can't find any internet record of the incident I was specifically talking about.

However, about 2.5 hours further west of here, a similar incident involving a Sheetz transpired, and I DID find an article about it.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:G1B...heetz&hl=en

"In Ohio, Sheetz cuts gasoline price to 67.9"

from the article. That's from 1998, about the same time (actually and honestly I think a year after) the Sheetz in my home town was built.

Sheetz in this town was ordered by the state to raise its prices.
It was .58/gal for most of one, single, day. And caused traffic to back up very, very horribly. 3 hour delays all around.


Irregardless, I think that article right there is enough to prove that I'm not making this shit up.
I know you have nothing to go on, no reason to believe me, but understand that when I say I definately, absolutely remember something correctly, I definately and absolutely remember something correctly. It may be hard to believe for you, but I'm not exaggerating or bragging; doing so on an online message board I find to be far less enjoyable than crapping in my own bed.

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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: So Does Anyone Actually Know Why Gas Prices Are So High? [Re: trendal]
    #2979375 - 08/08/04 08:55 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Not running out. The problem is the demand is very high, and they can only ship so many barrels a day. Taxing, I think, ensures the US gets theirs. Soon, taxes will be so expensive (think of China and all these developing countries) that it will have a profound effect on the economy and thus resulting in a profound effect in everyday living.

Hopefully, we'll find another means of supplimenting renewable sources of energy. Hemp fuels sounds pretty good to me...now, only if we could encourage the growth of it...lol... The future is always interesting to ponder.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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