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OfflineTwirling
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OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substance
    #2967819 - 08/05/04 02:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20040805/opinion/980956.html

Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substance

Think of all the car accidents caused by alcohol, not to mention domestic problems and a host of criminal justice issues connected to that popular drug. Move on to tobacco, heroin, marijuana and cocaine. Once again, consider the negative impacts that such substances have on our culture.

Then, ask yourself, does America need another drug?

Salvia divinorum is an herb in the mint family that is native to Mexico. Like marijuana, salvia can be smoked to produce a state of intoxication. Users have said that salvia produces hallucinations that reportedly can be more powerful than LSD.

Unlike marijuana or LSD, salvia is legal to use. A recent Ithaca Journal report found that this drug is no more regulated than bubble gum. It can be openly purchased through some local shops, by mail and via the World Wide Web. And there's the problem: Youngsters who may not try illegal drugs such as marijuana might be tempted to experiment with salvia.

Proponents of salvia maintain that it isn't addictive, yet experts caution otherwise. "It alters the brain chemistry to set up a false pleasure response," said William Rusen, executive director of Cayuga Addiction Recovery Services. "Is that where you want to go with 12- and 14-year-olds?"

Those who support the use of Salvia claim that it is a "natural herb" and that it is non-addictive. The same arguments once were put forth regarding marijuana. Today, the National Institute on Drug Abuse considers marijuana an addictive substance because people have withdrawal symptoms from it -- and it works in the same area of the brain as other hallucinogens, Rusen said.

Common sense dictates that it is unwise to allow the sale of a powerful psychoactive substance that is subject to less regulation than bottled water. What is particularly disturbing is that there are no laws regulating its purchase by minors. After all, there are sound reasons why our culture doesn't allow eight-year-old children to drive cars on highways or make it legal for 14-year-olds to buy cigarettes or beer.

To date, there are no state or federal laws regulating the production or distribution of Salvia divinorum. There should be.

In 2002, a bill in the House of Representatives, HR 5607, contained wording that regulated salvia. Unfortunately, the 107th Congress did not act on it. Hopefully, our elected officials in Washington, D.C. -- or Albany -- will take action this year.

There are enough problems associated with substance abuse. Allowing a powerful, unregulated psychoactive substance to be openly marketed is not good public policy.

Originally published Thursday, August 5, 2004


Yet another clueless person trying to make extravgent claims about a psychoactive substance. "It alters the brain chemistry to set up a false pleasure response" shows this person has never used Salvia, that's for sure.Does anyone want to write a response to this editoral? I'm tempted to, but it would be nice to have as many of us do it respectfully.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substance [Re: Twirling]
    #2967946 - 08/05/04 03:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.theithacajournal.com/customerservice/contactus.html

Anyone besides me feel the need to speak up?..not that they'll listen


Edited by HarveyWalbanger (08/05/04 03:24 PM)


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substance [Re: Twirling]
    #2968567 - 08/05/04 05:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

yes I am totally willing to write them a letter regarding this mis-informed / propaganda article. here are my thoughts,

Move on to tobacco, heroin, marijuana and cocaine. Once again, consider the negative impacts that such substances have on our culture.

how could they lump tobacco with heroin and cocaine, and on top of that throw marijuana in there, it's like saying these drugs are all the same thing, a gross over generalization.  How do these substances have negative impacts on our culture? It's the government who has outlawed them to create a black market which spawns the crime and all of the negative impacts this writer is talking about. plus, thousands of addicts in a country of millions is not a cultural problem, it's a personal problem.

Youngsters who may not try illegal drugs such as marijuana might be tempted to experiment with salvia.

why? it's not like marijuana is not readily available anyway, it's also cheaper and tastes better (imo). This argument makes no sense, even if these 'youngsters' wanted to buy salvia off the net they would need a credit card, and head shops wouldn't sell salvia to 12 -14 year olds in most cases I would think.

yet experts caution otherwise. "It alters the brain chemistry to set up a false pleasure response," said William Rusen

yes, I'm gonna listen to what experts say is a real or fake pleasure response, what reality is or isn't. I'm sure they know my own subjective experiences better than I do  :rolleyes:

Those who support the use of Salvia claim that it is a "natural herb" and that it is non-addictive. The same arguments once were put forth regarding marijuana. Today, the National Institute on Drug Abuse considers marijuana an addictive substance because people have withdrawal symptoms from it -- and it works in the same area of the brain as other hallucinogens, Rusen said.

marijuana does not have addiction physical withdrawal symptons, and neither does salvia. Mental dependance on these substances is a different issue that I believe stems from prior personal problems, not from the actual drug itself.

To date, there are no state or federal laws regulating the production or distribution of Salvia divinorum. There should be.

no, there shouldn't. Things have been working out for the last few years really good.


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substan [Re: chodamunky]
    #2969095 - 08/05/04 07:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Alright, I sent this letter in:

In response to the editorial ?Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substance?.

I am a current user of Salvia Divinorum for introspective, psychological, spiritual, and meditative purposes. I was taken aback by the uninformed and misguided editorial against Salvia Divinorum. I am also currently a psychology student with an informal education in neurology.

The writer asks people to reflect on the car accidents, domestic problems, and social damage alcohol does, and then asks ?Does America need another drug??. The flaw in this thought is in the nature of the drug Salvia Divinorum in comparison to alcohol. First, he mentions a statement from an ?expert? that ?"It alters the brain chemistry to set up a false pleasure response,"?. This is highly simplified and completely misunderstands the physiology of both Salvia Divinorum, and alcohol. Addiction is believed to be the result of drugs that strongly affect dopamine receptors within the limbic system. Alcohol strongly effects those channels, while Salvia Divinorum does not. In fact, only approximately 20% of people who try Salvia Divinorum even repeat the experience again, and so far, there are little to no case reports of people becoming addicted to it. Compare that to the addiction rate alcohol has of about 10%. Not one person has died from an ?overdose? of Salvia Divinorum because the toxicology rate, as with most hallucinogens is hard to even identify. Compare that to about 20,000 deaths per year as the result of overdoses of alcohol.

Marijuana prohibition was initially caused by racial motives and prejudices. Let?s not make the same mistake of holding unwarranted biases against Salvia Divinorum. The War On Drugs has become a cultural war on people who use certain substances for legitimate, spiritual and introspective purposes. That?s not to reduce the negative impact drugs can have when used improperly, but rather that by changing cultural misconceptions on such substances, we can both reduce and heal the harm as well as allow responsible users to have their freedoms. I would however, support and encourage regulation that forbids sale to minors. This would allow responsible adults to have their freedom as well as prevent teenagers from using it (and almost every, but not all stores I?ve encountered, voluntarily do not sell to minors). I urge anyone who is interested in outlawing such substances to read as much as they can, from as many different angles, before demanding such crippling legislature. While I do not advocate the use of Salvia Divinorum to anyone unless they so choose, I would have missed out of something extremely important in my life had it been outlawed.

(Please withhold my name from print because of the controversy surrounding the issue)


I'll let you know if they print it.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substan [Re: Twirling]
    #2969230 - 08/05/04 08:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Not to mention that people just looking to get high will probably be smitten quite hard by lady D.... they could have even brought to attention a real dangerous substance (datura, etc) that they wouldn't have had to make up lies about


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Offlineneuro
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substan [Re: Twirling]
    #2970434 - 08/06/04 01:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


Think of all the car accidents caused by alcohol, not to mention domestic problems and a host of criminal justice issues connected to that popular drug. Move on to tobacco, heroin, marijuana and cocaine. Once again, consider the negative impacts that such substances have on our culture.

Then, ask yourself, does America need another drug?





That's a slippery slope argument. Bad argumenting style.

Quote:

Unlike marijuana or LSD, salvia is legal to use. A recent Ithaca Journal report found that this drug is no more regulated than bubble gum.




It's certainly not available at the local quik-mart. Headshops that carry it certainly won't sell it to minors. And eight year olds can get bubble gum but I'd find them hard pressed to get salvia. This whole sentence was completely loaded and was aimed at trying to tell the reader that even someone as young as ten could get salvia.

Quote:


Those who support the use of Salvia claim that it is a "natural herb" and that it is non-addictive. The same arguments once were put forth regarding marijuana.





So? What does that prove? Salvia is not Marijuana. Where do they plan on going with this?

Quote:


Today, the National Institute on Drug Abuse considers marijuana an addictive substance because people have withdrawal symptoms from it -- and it works in the same area of the brain as other hallucinogens, Rusen said.





Non sequitor to the last two sentences. And that information is false, it's heralded fame is that it attacheds to a specific flavor of opioid receptor.

Quote:


Common sense dictates that it is unwise to allow the sale of a powerful psychoactive substance that is subject to less regulation than bottled water. What is particularly disturbing is that there are no laws regulating its purchase by minors. After all, there are sound reasons why our culture doesn't allow eight-year-old children to drive cars on highways or make it legal for 14-year-olds to buy cigarettes or beer.





So which is it, do you want it regulated or flat out illegal since there was extensive marijuana and LSD talk and now there's talk of tobacco, alcohol and automotive license.


And yes obviously written by someone who knows what they're talking about, in addition to their astronomically stupid argumentation.


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Registered: 02/28/02
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substan [Re: Twirling]
    #2972320 - 08/06/04 04:47 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I like your letter, I hope they print it up  :thumbup:


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Offlineivi
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substan [Re: Twirling]
    #2976471 - 08/07/04 09:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

WTF is "Cayuga Addiction Recovery Services" anyway?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substance [Re: Twirling]
    #2976619 - 08/07/04 10:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

anyone willing to reply by email or snail to the ithica journal can feel free to use my rant below:

Very few internet searches (I do reccommend Google if the author does not know any search engines and how helpful they can be in discovering facts) will show quite clearly that the ld50 of salvinorin is much higher than vitamine B, and many other familiar substances. Essentially it is non-toxic in any conceivable dose that can be attained (other than in a dedicated laboratory environment, in which case it will be one of the least dangerous substances in the space).

This is a non addictive substance, which is not known for satisfying pleasure cravings.

Unlike many herbal healing products, this one is quite effective in oral administrations for treating psychological conditions like depression, and it has a marked effect which improves general body feeling for sufferers of rheumatism - the sore joints of the natural aging process (particularly in the 2-3 day period following use, commonly referred to as the afterglow - note other psychoactives have a debilitating after effect which is a marked difference as well).

As a tea I have given salvia to my adult daughter to effectively treat abdominal pain and indigestion following surgery when nothing else would work.

When it comes to it's psycho active effect, salvia (which excites the kOR) does not trigger the same brain receptors as other psychoactive compounds, but it does extend the duration of engram excitations (which other psychoactives also do) This effect should be studied more, but it need not be feared or watched in the same way that stimulant or pleasure oriented (opiate) effects need to be watched and controlled, since the same effect (as salvia produces) occurs naturally to everyone every night during dreaming (even to those who think they do not dream).

The acute effects of strong doses of Salvinorin (the active ingredient of Salvia) are very short in duration (3-6 minutes), which makes it an unique tool for personal and academic exploration of consciousness related to dreaming and the subconscious mind which is very poorly understood.

Since connecting with this aspect of consciousness has so little support in our society, and since so many people are drawn to any answers about dreams, consciousness, and archytypes, the main danger in suppressing this is to support the proliferation of meaningless cults and religions as substitiutes to personal direct connection with our own subconscious minds, and in lieu of "official" psychological knowledge from government and science.

Finally the google searches will probably also help to remind the mis-informed author that Salvia Divinorum, is now growing naturally in homes of law abiding people who are ardently interested in the positive aspects of civilization, and who will probably agree that their contribution to civilization has been improved since becoming acquainted with the plant. Families and friends of salvia Users will concurr, even if they are not themselves interested in Salvia Divinorum, that the outlook of users has improved as well as their dependability in mundane matters, and marked improvements will have been noted in problem solving contributions in more serious matters as well. This is not an aspect in common with any controlled substances - though some truck drivers and fighter pilots have attributed benefits to amphetamine, and all caffein users rely somewhat on stimulants, Salvia is not a stimulant nor is it addictive as those substances are.

Due to the kind of experience and the duration of it [ please google up the right facts, ithica ], there is no danger of car driving incidents, unless, of course, an uninformed driver were tricked by a suicidal maniac passenger into smoking while driving on the hiway.

Probably a strong focus should return to the truly scarey drive-by-shooting phenomenon, that easy access to underregulated firearms and bullets affords.


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OfflineAneglakya
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substance [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2977550 - 08/08/04 07:51 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Someone needs to post the email address and/or physical address so we can write in and complain to this ill informed mother fuckers.


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InvisibleJohn
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substance [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2978274 - 08/08/04 02:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

harveywalbanger already did :stoned:


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substan [Re: Twirling]
    #2983844 - 08/10/04 12:43 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This is absolutly outragous. First they print that completely misinformed editoral, then they print follow up letters out outraged parents complaining about the article informing their teens, or in the second case, some nut job who's now completely misinformed about the Salvia expierence. To be fair, this was published on the day I wrote my letter, however it's absolutly shamful how little fair coverage there is to people who actually know about these things rather than some yahoos who are completely misinformed. Fuck the press (or at least the idea that everyone has to fear any psychoactive drug or else they're a criminal).

And I haven't recieved a response about the letter I wrote, nor has it been published. Not that I expect it to be.

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arch...;p_product=IHJB


Poor placement

If my children hadn't already heard of the legal hallucinogenic drug salvia, they are now fully informed about what it is, where it can be obtained and what intriguing effects they can expect it to produce, thanks to the front page story in The Journal - which used inch-and-a-half high headlines to prominently advertise "a legal high."

The story could have been placed on page two of a weekday issue and been just as informative to parents, without demanding the attention of curious children and teenagers.

As a local newspaper, The Journal ought to consider not just how to sell newspapers but how to responsibly dispense news to its community.

Rebecca Younes

Town of Ithaca

Advertising?

I was absolutely appalled by the July 31 Ithaca Journal article regarding salvia divinorum, commonly referred to as salvia. It is unfortunate that a substance such as this is legal to sell or possess.

What is more disturbing and unfortunate is how easy it may be to obtain this drug.

While illegal drugs have found their way into all parts of America, most Americans would agree that addiction to these substances is not healthy to say the least.

It was disturbing to see the smiling face of the owner of the store mentioned in the article as she held a packet of salvia and a water pipe, which is used to smoke salvia.

Who would sell a substance like this for profit?

It was stated in the article that, "During the `experience' some users begin to think that they're inanimate objects - such as a painting or a leaf."

The article also said, "Others feel as though they're somewhere else or see people or things that aren't actually there."

Let's hope that no one imagines themselves as being a line painted down the middle of Route 13.

In my opinion it is irresponsible for any person to sell this substance.

God forbid someone gets hurt or killed as a result of this substance and if they do, let's hope that one of our sharpest local attorneys gets the civil case.

To the Ithaca Journal, in my opinion the article would have been OK, up to the point where you made it an advertisement of where to buy a substance to get high with.

John Curatolo


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineSheepish
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substan [Re: Twirling]
    #2984453 - 08/10/04 03:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Who would sell a substance like this for profit?



Perhaps the same kind of people who sell them their alcohol, to (supposendly) responsible and knowledgable adults?
Typical that the last guy mentioned that if anyone gets harmed, the lawsuits should come out firing. You can tell he's American. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Quite a few fucktards lose control on excessive amounts of alcohol, but I don't see anyone suing the liquor shops.
Quote:

In my opinion it is irresponsible for any person to sell this substance.

God forbid someone gets hurt or killed as a result of this substance and if they do, let's hope that one of our sharpest local attorneys gets the civil case.





It's my personal belief that it's not very responsible selling alcohol and cigarettes, which is KNOWN to kill and harm thousands of people a year. But I also believe in freedom of choice.
And quite frankly, I find it hard to see how anyone could get addicted to this. Any kid that tries it will probably get the shit scared out of them, or not even breakthrough.


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OfflineRedo
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substan [Re: Twirling]
    #2984873 - 08/10/04 06:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I dont know about all you guys, but most people I know who do salvia do not like it. It makes no difference to me whatsoever. The only drug I care about in legislature is marijuana.


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OfflineinfiniumV
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substan [Re: Twirling]
    #3040569 - 08/23/04 07:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

No plant should be made illegal. Adult, functioning human beings must be given 100% freedom of choice as to what they wish to take into their bodies/minds, and no government has jurisdiction over this most basic right. MIND IS A SOVEREIGN STATE!
Steve.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: OP/ED:Salvia divinorum Legislature should outlaw substance [Re: Twirling]
    #3040870 - 08/23/04 09:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

"It alters the brain chemistry to set up a false pleasure response," said William Rusen, executive director of Cayuga Addiction Recovery Services. "Is that where you want to go with 12- and 14-year-olds?"




English is my second language.
It's 3 AM at night.
Please tell me how to interpret this.

A FALSE pleasure response?

"The kids are convinced that they experience pleasure but the latest research shows that it is not pleasure but a false pleasure response"

How can ACUTE PLEASURE be FALSE?

How can you be deluded into an acute feeling of euphoria?

"You think you feel better now but it just isnt true. it is just that you think you feel better, an illusion."

"it doesnt hurt! You just -think- it hurts!"

The American syndrome: you don't know what you feel: politicians know what you feel. Hey, 1984 once more bro!


Is that where we want to go with 12 and 14 yo's? Absolutely. If they for some time think they feel good while they do not then by all means think you feel good. If feeling good means you for an instant forget you are a teenager in America then Salvia may provide that, but Salvia is not even close to that dung.


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