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OfflineI2ancid
josh hartnett,movie star actor
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Registered: 10/05/03
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Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic?
    #2960234 - 08/03/04 03:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What is the evolutionary reason for mushrooms containing psilocybin? How does it benefit the shroom to provide animals with a trip? It's not a fluke because many species are hallucinagenic.

Maybe when insects eat it even a tiny portion they have total ego loss and never eat it again, kind of like a non-deadly deterant.

And why does Marijuana have thc in it?


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Offlineacoostick
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Registered: 07/06/04
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: I2ancid]
    #2960315 - 08/03/04 03:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

do you expect anybody to know answers to any of that..

you could just go ask a squirell.


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Shine On,           


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Offlinegbhtrfv
journeyman
Registered: 02/09/04
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: I2ancid]
    #2960532 - 08/03/04 04:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Those are questions nobody knows the answers to.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,951
Loc: the sky
Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: I2ancid]
    #2960544 - 08/03/04 04:32 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If you consider the fact that all the "answers" humans have found for everything are completely subjective, and we can't remove ourselves from our own experience, then even if a scientist did have an answer for this, it wouldn't be any sort of universal truth, so anyway,
eat mushrooms!


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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Offlinedjd586
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Registered: 02/03/03
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: I2ancid]
    #2960569 - 08/03/04 04:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This is a good question. I has been debated by many but no one has really ever answered the question to what roll psilocybin serves in the biology of the mushroom.

Some people say that psilocybin is essential in hyphal knot formation; but if that were the case why doesn't ever mushroom producing fungi produce the alkaloid?

Some people have said that psliocybin and psilcin are active chemicals in sort of a "fungal communication" role amongts the mycelium. They argue that a fungus with high levels of the akaloids will grow faster and consume more nutrients then that of fungus with a low alkaloid count. So it's kind of a switch to tell the fungus that conditions are good and to grow and consume. This theory has never been really tested or proven. I think it's kind of an off the wall concept. Until someone puts some research out on the line for this theory, I'll look right past it.

Some people debated that it was a defense mechanism against bacterial and viral infections. But when the alkaloid was placed on an agar growth medium with bacteria and select virial infected tissue, it didn't slow or inhibit growth of the microbes what-so-ever.

Some people debated that it's a defense againgst insectial predation upon the mushroom. But, it has been observed in many cases, that several different types of insects feed upon the fungus. So where does that leave us? Well, it could still be a defense mech against an insect. Perhaps an insect that in previous evolutionary history fed prolifically on the fungus until the point in which the fungus biologically developed the alkaloid. Now that the alkaloid is present, that particular insect just doesn't feed on the mushroom anymore.

One dude on the internet says that another possibility is that psilocybin is a "by-product" which is produced when enzymes or hormones are biosynthesized. He goes on to say that the plant hormone auxine can be produced in a similar way as psilocybin, and the maximum concentration of psilocybin seems to be in the pinheads of psilocybie mushrooms. But the alkaloid producing fungi aren't plants
and he has no idea if they need to produce a plant-like growth hormone like auxine. The addition of auxine to a culture of Psilocybe [Stropharia] cubensis does not accelerate mycelial growth, but there is some evidence that suggests the addition of steroids do accelarate fungal growth.

About the pathway in which the mushroom produces psilocybin, a lot is still unknown. For instance, when other tryptamines, such as NMT or DMT, are added to a cubensis mycelium, it will readily be converted to psilocin. But none of
these substances occur naturally in the mushrooms. The Dutch mycologist T. Stijvewrote said that the only time he ever isolated tryptamine from a cubensis mushroom, it was in mushrooms showing dwarfed growth. Stijvewrote argued that the alkaloid was in fact a pathway for growth of the mushroom. But like I mentioned before, if this were to be the case, why don't all mushroom producing fungi produce the alkaloid?

There's an idea that psilocybin has something to do with the sensing of light. Psilocybin is concentrated in the young mushrooms, and more specifically at the most light sensitive parts (edge of thecap, gills). At least that part shows the
strongest bluing. Light also seems to have a beneficial effect on psilocybin production: the funky looking mushrooms with undeveloped caps which you get when you grow them in the dark are shown to have far less akaloid level as the ones which are grown with the prescence of light for 12 hours a day.

Another interesting idea is that psilocybin is used in the formation of spores. It has been observed that level of alkaloids drop rapidly when the spores mature and drop from the gills of the mushrooms.

Anyhow, to tell you the truth, no one really know what roll psilocybin plays. It will continued to be debated for years. I assume one day a mycolgist will truley want to know that answer and will spend years before he or she comes to a conclusion. For now, your best guess on what roll the aklaloids really play, will do.


--------------------

Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!


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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: acoostick]
    #2960668 - 08/03/04 05:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

acoostick said:
do you expect anybody to know answers to any of that..

you could just go ask a squirell.




or you could ask me...its the same reason why some plants are poisonous. if an unwitting animal munches a poisonous/hallucinogenic plant they will likely not like the experience and learn that that plant is no good for eating.

on the other hand, hallucinogenic mushrooms and marijuana have been spead vastly because humans enjoy their hallucinogenic properties. everything around us works to survive and reproduce, that is the basis of life as we know it. wonder why sex feels so good? its just a trick to get us to reproduce and pass on our genetic code. this basic equation is the same for all animals and plants on this earth. very logical stuff if you ask me.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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Invisiblegdman
badger, badger,badger...
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: TODAY]
    #2960693 - 08/03/04 05:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

yeah and all kinds of animals eat magic mushrooms and come back for more so...


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
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  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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Offlinepsikooz
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Registered: 07/19/03
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: gdman]
    #2960861 - 08/03/04 05:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

They exist as an essential part of life.

Humans ask to many questions.


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Offlineonetime
onetime
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: psikooz]
    #2961043 - 08/03/04 06:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

beings how i am your creator i thought i would give you something to have fun with and forget about things that you make in your life for a moment i get soo much entertainment watching all of you trip on something so simple and yet no one knows the secert haha i made life not for all of you to make money and war but for you to have fun and make love


--------------------

See?
Yes, with my own three eyes.
Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want


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OfflineBluewave
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Registered: 03/03/03
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: I2ancid]
    #2962599 - 08/04/04 01:38 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Here is an interesting theory:

http://fusionanomaly.net/psilocybin.html


--------------------
"There is no I in ego death"


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Offlinegbhtrfv
journeyman
Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 154
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: TODAY]
    #2962912 - 08/04/04 03:42 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:
Quote:

acoostick said:
do you expect anybody to know answers to any of that..

you could just go ask a squirell.




or you could ask me...its the same reason why some plants are poisonous. if an unwitting animal munches a poisonous/hallucinogenic plant they will likely not like the experience and learn that that plant is no good for eating.

on the other hand, hallucinogenic mushrooms and marijuana have been spead vastly because humans enjoy their hallucinogenic properties. everything around us works to survive and reproduce, that is the basis of life as we know it. wonder why sex feels so good? its just a trick to get us to reproduce and pass on our genetic code. this basic equation is the same for all animals and plants on this earth. very logical stuff if you ask me.




you can't possibly expect for the fungi to KNOW that humans will spread the fungi around the world. do you think cats decide to be cute so they can be spread around and breed like crazy? and you pretty much disproved your first theory there, since you said it acts as a repellant but at the same time attract a specifice species.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: TODAY]
    #2963054 - 08/04/04 04:53 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Cool thread!! :thumbup:

Those are impossable questions to know the truth, for sure. Imagination and ideas is what you have left.
I believe Mankind owes it's entire world today as a result of chowing shrooms, cause they like it. In the time of ape man with no tools, fire or garden, he had SHROOMS!!
And that allowed massive forward movement of thinking. Their Brains got geometric and creative.Which lead to fire tools...etc and MUSIC!! :tongue:

And I agree that the "get high" stuff in the natural world is to protect the Plant/Fungus in some way. BUT WE LIKED IT :cool:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: gbhtrfv]
    #2963495 - 08/04/04 10:33 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

you can't possibly expect for the fungi to KNOW that humans will spread the fungi around the world. do you think cats decide to be cute so they can be spread around and breed like crazy? and you pretty much disproved your first theory there, since you said it acts as a repellant but at the same time attract a specifice species.




Well, as far as we can tell, it serves no function in the mushroom's own biology. It's NOT an insect repellant, flies (probably the most wide spread insects in the world) seem to love psilocybes.... If by some fluke it produced a very pleasant molecule that fits perfectly in the bovine brain, thats a hell of an advantage while humans and their cattle roam the earth.


--------------------


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: I2ancid]
    #2963709 - 08/04/04 12:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Nature is inter-related. Plants work with the animals and vice versa. Nature provides food for our bodies, maybe she also provides food for our spirit too.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 965
Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: I2ancid]
    #2964442 - 08/04/04 03:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I personally find it very hard to believe anything other than the fact that it is a defensive biological weapon. I mean its like asking why humans have opposible thumbs - there is the obvious answer and then a bunch of wild conspiracy theories.


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OfflineKingkole
im not a noob...im a a doob

Registered: 11/30/03
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2964518 - 08/04/04 03:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

well the mushrooms grow on cow poopies right?

maybe the magic stuff is there so the cows don't eat the mushrooms till after the spores drop.

The alkaloid levels drop after spore production so the cows can eat the shrooms and produce more magical cow shit.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: utopianglory]
    #2965102 - 08/04/04 06:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I personally find it very hard to believe anything other than the fact that it is a defensive biological weapon

But it doesn't fit. Like with the mescaline produced by Peyote or San Pedro, if the alkaloids were a defence against predators then the younger cacti (most likely to be eaten) would produce the most mescaline. Instead the oldest cacti (least likely to be eaten) produce and contain the most mescaline.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleno-tone
Enema Bag Jones

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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2965222 - 08/04/04 06:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'm stoned and i just read this thread.

I want to write more but for now i'm too stoned. I will however leave my simplified explanation for the time being, and follow up later when i'm not so stoned.

I would consider the secondary metabolite theory to be the most accurate.


--------------------
Man thinks. God laughs. - Jewish Proverb


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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
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Registered: 09/25/03
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: gbhtrfv]
    #2965751 - 08/04/04 09:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gbhtrfv said:
you can't possibly expect for the fungi to KNOW that humans will spread the fungi around the world. do you think cats decide to be cute so they can be spread around and breed like crazy? and you pretty much disproved your first theory there, since you said it acts as a repellant but at the same time attract a specifice species.




oh god, why are you trying to battle me on this. the first line of the second paragraph of my explanation of why mushrooms are hallucinogenic was just pointing out the irony in the fact that humans enjoy what is likely a natural "repellent". you didn't read too hard did you?


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineMeThoD
MeThoD

Registered: 01/29/03
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Re: Why are some mushrooms hallucinagenic? [Re: Bluewave]
    #2966531 - 08/05/04 02:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bluewave said:
Here is an interesting theory:

http://fusionanomaly.net/psilocybin.html




This kinda goes with something I read saying that spores are able to survive in outer space.


--------------------
Every empty bowl must be filled, and a full bowl must always be emptied.


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