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 HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
 
Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,028
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
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 Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! 
#2955427 - 08/02/04 08:37 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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REPUBLICANS PLAN PUSH FOR ELIMINATION OF IRS
**Exclusive**
A domestic centerpiece of the Bush/GOP agenda for a second Bush term is getting rid of the Internal Revenue Service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.
The Speaker of the House will push for replacing the nation's current tax system with a national sales tax or a value added tax, Hill sources tell DRUDGE.
"People ask me if I?m really calling for the elimination of the IRS, and I say I think that?s a great thing to do for future generations of Americans," Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert explains in his new book, to be released on Wednesday.
"Pushing reform legislation will be difficult. Change of any sort seldom comes easy. But these changes are critical to our economic vitality and our economic security abroad," Hastert declares in SPEAKER: LESSONS FROM FORTY YEARS IN COACHING AND POLITICS.
"?If you own property, stock, or, say, one hundred acres of farmland and tax time is approaching, you don?t want to make a mistake, so you?re almost obliged to go to a certified public accountant, tax preparer, or tax attorney to help you file a correct return. That costs a lot of money. Now multiply the amount you have to pay by the total number of people who are in the same boat. You can?t. No one can because precise numbers don?t exist. But we can stipulate that we?re talking about a huge amount. Now consider that a flat tax, national sales tax, or VAT would not only eliminate the need to do this, it could also eliminate the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) itself and make the process of paying taxes much easier."
"By adopting a VAT, sales tax, or some other alternative, we could begin to change productivity. If you can do that, you can change gross national product and start growing the economy. You could double the economy over the next fifteen years. All of a sudden, the problem of what future generations owe in Social Security and Medicare won?t be so daunting anymore. The answer is to grow the economy, and the key to doing that is making sure we have a tax system that attracts capital and builds incentives to keep it here instead of forcing it out to other nations."
Developing...
/kneels beside bed to pray
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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
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ld50negative1
lethal dosage
Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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 Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2955443 - 08/02/04 08:46 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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sounds good to me
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 downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2955482 - 08/02/04 09:06 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Find some more info on this.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
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Vvellum
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2955679 - 08/02/04 10:08 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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hollow election year promises...never going to happen.
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Booger
addict
Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 164
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2955700 - 08/02/04 10:13 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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They want to replace the wealth tax with a poverty tax. A VAT or sales tax really victimizes the lower and middle classes, while going easy on the rich. How? It's simple. If you're lower income, you spend a large percentage of your disposable income on items that have VAT on them. If you're high income, you don't. Higher income people are more likely to put money in income-producing investments or businesses.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2955739 - 08/02/04 10:20 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I hope it happens but like previously mentioned it is an election year.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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ld50negative1
lethal dosage
Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: Booger]
#2955749 - 08/02/04 10:24 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Booger said:
They want to replace the wealth tax with a poverty tax. A VAT or sales tax really victimizes the lower and middle classes, while going easy on the rich. How? It's simple. If you're lower income, you spend a large percentage of your disposable income on items that have VAT on them. If you're high income, you don't. Higher income people are more likely to put money in income-producing investments or businesses.
Maybe the poor people should start investing.
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Tao
Village Genius
Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: ld50negative1]
#2955951 - 08/02/04 11:10 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Maybe the poor people should start investing.
I hope that's sarcasm.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2955969 - 08/02/04 11:17 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am all for getting rid of income taxes, but a sales tax is not the right alternative. As Booger correctly pointed out, sales tax is inherently regressive, putting a greater burden on the poor. That's why I've consistently advocated a Land Value Tax, which would take a burden off the poor without penalizing productivity like income taxes do.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2956103 - 08/02/04 12:01 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Out of the frying pan and into the fire, eh? A true party of small government would eliminate the IRS and replace it with NOTHING. The Republicans are not such a party though...not even close. I wonder if this wasn't a deliberately leaked story to try and strengthen the very dubious fiscal-conservative base that for some reason, unbeknownst to me, swears aliegance to the GOP.
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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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JesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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I think our tax system is seriously flawed. [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2959800 - 08/03/04 10:19 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Here is an article in the Seattle Times:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationalpolitics/2001926452_cdig12.html
Teresa Heinz Kerry inherited a $500,000,000.00 fortune. Some estimates put that fortune to be around $800,000,000.00. Some guess more, some guess less, but half a billion alone is nothing to laugh at. I could live on that myself.
Of this incredibly vast fortune, Teresa claimed an income of 5.1 million dollars in 2003. If her fortune was $800 million, an income of 5.1 million would indicate that her personal return on assets was less than 1% at a time when the market was growing by leaps and bounds.
Did Mrs. Heinz-Kerry really make less than 1% on her assets? Of course not. The point here is not to punish her, but to demonstrate that the wealthy are largely shielded from taxes. Everybody with lots of money does these things. We can only imagine what happens in the corridors of power and immense wealth. I use her as an example only because she is very wealthy and she has reported some of her tax information to the public.
She paid $587,000.00 in taxes on a reported income of 5.1 million according to the article. That is an effective tax rate of less than 12%. Conversely, if you enter the work force out of high school and make 15 thousand dollars in your first year, you and your employer will contribute 15.3% in FICA taxes alone. The working poor effectively pay a higher tax rate than the wealthiest, and that is just the poor schumcks that don't make enough to get hit by Federal Taxes.
Our federal tax schedule starts with a 10% tax on those with an adjusted gross income (AGI) of $7,500. It has several tax levels, with the highest being a tax of 35% on incomes of $319,100+ (or $159,550 if married filing separately).
A family of four with a Federal AGI of $17,600 is classified as working poor. They would be in a 10% income tax bracket and they and their employer would combine to pay an additional 15.3% of their income in FICA taxes. How does that feel when the working poor pay a higher tax rate than one of the wealthiest women in the world?
On a side note, anyone know where I could find information on the number of Americans who pay Federal Income Tax vs. the number of Americans who don't?
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Tastes just like chicken
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2959827 - 08/03/04 10:28 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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tax increases are always aimed at the fastest-growing population..so a tax hike on the poor means that the neocon economy is actually producing poverty and not wealth...and this is quite possibly intentional...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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JesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: Annapurna1]
#2959858 - 08/03/04 10:36 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I thought those dreaded neocons actually cut taxes. Both parties pushed for tax cuts. It was in the news, maybe you missed it.
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Tastes just like chicken
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: silversoul7]
#2959956 - 08/03/04 11:13 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said:
I am all for getting rid of income taxes, but a sales tax is not the right alternative. As Booger correctly pointed out, sales tax is inherently regressive, putting a greater burden on the poor. That's why I've consistently advocated a Land Value Tax, which would take a burden off the poor without penalizing productivity like income taxes do.
if you instituted a land value tax, methinks that rich people would just stop putting their money into real estate and start putting it somewhere else.
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JesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: DoctorJ]
#2959965 - 08/03/04 11:18 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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They would be less likely to hold real estate, you are correct about that. Our tax policy provides incentives and disincentives to do things.
Right now we tax wage earners. It is a tax on personal productivity. Those taxes actively discourage productivity. A sales tax is a tax on consumption. It would discourage consumption and incourage savings and investment instead. In the modern world of credit card debt, it would be a welcome change.
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Tastes just like chicken
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: Vvellum]
#2959975 - 08/03/04 11:22 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said:
hollow election year promises...never going to happen.
agreed... anythng to win a couple of votes before they assign more taxmen and expand government to epic proportions...
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Tao
Village Genius
Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: JesusChrist]
#2959984 - 08/03/04 11:24 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Those taxes actively discourage productivity.
It reduces the incentive and benefit. It does not discourage productivity. It's not like being productive no longer earns people money.
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JesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: Tao]
#2960033 - 08/03/04 11:57 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
TaoTeChing said:
Quote:
Those taxes actively discourage productivity.
It reduces the incentive and benefit. It does not discourage productivity. It's not like being productive no longer earns people money.
I think we may just be having a semenatical difference. I agree with you. Income taxes reduce the incentive to be productive by reducing the benefits of being productive. In that vein, they discourage productivity.
As a kid, I was more likely to cut the grass for $10 rather than $5. Now cutting the grass for $5 still put money in my pocket, but give me a higher rate and I would cut more grass.
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Tastes just like chicken
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2960040 - 08/03/04 12:03 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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good news, but they'll never pull it off...
the tax attorneys and accountant's lobbying goups
are far too large.
the notion of liquidating all those government jobs
at the IRS would be too much to explain away.
great idea...but I fear that it won't make it.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Republicans plan push for ELIMINATION of IRS?!??!?!?! [Re: JesusChrist]
#2960161 - 08/03/04 12:50 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
JesusChrist said:
I thought those dreaded neocons actually cut taxes. Both parties pushed for tax cuts. It was in the news, maybe you missed it.
if it was on FauxNews..then i did miss it...but the dreaded neocons did cut taxes..for the wealthy and for their cronys...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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