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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Self replicating machine.
    #2954623 - 08/02/04 02:23 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

How hard would it be to build a machine that was capable of turning raw metal and semi-finished forms into another machine identical to itself?

This would be a self contained machine shop, fully automated, including a milling machine, wire winder, foundry, plastic forming, kiln, etc...

It could be programmed to produce all kinds of other things, including it's own upgrades.

How hard would that be?


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Anonymous

Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2955057 - 08/02/04 06:12 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
How hard would it be





pretty fucking hard


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Invisiblezeta
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Registered: 05/25/02
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Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2955082 - 08/02/04 06:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Unbelievably hard
Think of all the motors and microprocesors etc. it would have to create
I'm imagining it based around a robotic arm with different tools for welding, cutting, gripping...


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2955653 - 08/02/04 12:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

We came pretty close when my wife and I had our daughter.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisiblePapaverS
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Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2955885 - 08/02/04 12:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

That's the dream of a research field known as Drexlerian Nanotechnology.

I think in order to make such a thing work, you would have to work at the atomic/molecular level (nano-scale), as it's only at this level that abundant resources would be available for such replication, as well as enhanced ease of assembly (the physical laws of nano-scale being different than the newtonian laws of human-scale).

Such a device would probably also not necessarily be based on "gray" mecha-nano-tech (i.e. silicone, germanium, etc,), but "green" bio-nano-tech (i.e. amino acids). Possibly starting with human modifications of existing nucleic/proteinous structures into such a self-replicating configuration, and their subsequent assembly. An operating system possibly based on some sort of enhanced understanding of Wolframian cellular automata.

Prions (self-replication proteins which lack nucleic-acid), who's replication strategy is not yet fully understood, might be the biological model for the first of such devices. Or, it may be something entirely different, as we're into much futuristic speculation on this subject.

By some definitions, such a device might constitute the creation of artificial life. I've always believed that self-replication is the best definition for "life." This does not mean intelligent life: simply life...

Another interesting vector on this problem, might be the purely virtual, or cyber, creation of such a thing. A self-replication piece of machine code, which of course we already see in computer viruses, so I'm not sure what the definition would be there...


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OfflineHooty
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Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: Papaver]
    #2956743 - 08/02/04 04:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

This kind of thing is how we get started on the patch to getting royal fucked by our own creations.....I smell a robot uprising coming.


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Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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InvisibleDieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 28,165
Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: Hooty]
    #2956776 - 08/02/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thats just because thats the latest fad in the movies is robots taking over... Think about it Terminator Matrix I Robot ... Im sure there are others...


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InvisiblePapaverS
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Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: Hooty]
    #2956887 - 08/02/04 05:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think it's a valid concern. Indeed, there are already concerns about runaway "gray goo" and "green goo." Here's an interesting post regarding the attempts at the conceptual regulation of such things from This Thread.

Quote:

Papaver said:

Now, All Models Come Equipped With Conceptual Airbags & Safety-Belts!? :laugh:

Issac Assimov's 1940 Laws of Robotics

First Law: A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law: A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law: A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

The Foresight Institute's 1999 Guidelines on Molecular Nanotechnology

Molecular NanoTechnology (MNT) includes a wide variety of technologies that have very different risk profiles. Access to the end products of MNT should be distinguished from access to the various forms of the underlying development technology. Access to MNT products should be unrestricted unless this access poses a risk to global security.

Accidental or willful misuse of MNT must be constrained by legal liability and, where appropriate, subject to criminal prosecution.

Governments, companies, and individuals who refuse or fail to follow responsible principles and guidelines for development and dissemination of MNT should, if possible, be placed at a competitive disadvantage with respect to access to MNT intellectual property, technology, and markets.

MNT device designs should incorporate provisions for built-in safety mechanisms, such as: 1) absolute dependence on a single artificial fuel source or artificial "vitamins" that don't exist in any natural environment; 2) making devices that are dependent on broadcast transmissions for replication or in some cases operation; 3) routing control signal paths throughout a device, so that subassemblies do not function independently; 4) programming termination dates into devices, and 5) other innovations in laboratory or device safety technology developed specifically to address the potential dangers of MNT. Further research is needed on MNT risk management, as well as the theory, mechanisms, and experimental designs for built-in safeguard systems.


I feel safer, already... :wink:




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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: zeta]
    #2958954 - 08/03/04 04:42 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Integrated circuits would be provided, it would not have to burn it's own chips, though it may etch it's own circuitboards and install all the components.

I'm not talking about working with pure elements. some semi-finished and even finished components could be used, like a PC or LASERs but it should do as much as possible with as little as possible.


No nanotech, this is all strictly small room sized robotics.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: Papaver]
    #2958959 - 08/03/04 04:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Forget nano-tech.

Some human intervention is allowed, such as plugging the finished unit into a PC with operating system and drivers installed.


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InvisiblePapaverS
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Re: Self replicating machine. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2959095 - 08/03/04 06:47 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You will need to give the robot a Visa card, so it can go down to Radio Shack, and by the raw components necessary to replicate itself. Since finances will play a role in the acquisition of resources, I think the robot should be in charge of this too. :laugh:


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Amazon Shop: Papaver Somniferum, Scales

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