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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Inner Eye
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States....
    #2949625 - 07/31/04 08:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

When Bush said to the world in reguards to fighting terrorism that "either your with us, or your you against us" was totaly typical of the mindset of too many Americans.

I think that the real important question one should ask is:
"Either the USA is with the rest of the world, or against the rest of the world."
And oviously they've chosen, up to now, that they are against the rest of the world. Is that the America you choose?


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
And I'll be gone




Edited by Northernsoul (07/31/04 08:45 PM)


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2949649 - 07/31/04 08:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The 'With Us or Against Us' policy of preemption is reckless and deletarious(though I would not rule it out in every single situation based soley on principle). The opposite extreme though, which would be catering to the every whim of the UN, would be equally horrible in my opinion. So unfortunate that we have forgotten the foreign policy advice of Jefferson and Washington, "peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations,?entangling alliances with none."


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleDieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 27,904
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2949653 - 07/31/04 08:51 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I dont agree with either of your premises. You may wish the whole world was against the US but that is simply not the case.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Inner Eye
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: DieCommie]
    #2949783 - 07/31/04 09:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I know, some countries are "with" the states. But why should everyone be with only the states? What makes us more important than anyone else?

Try to imagine what some of the not-so-well off countries think about the states, and not just the ones that get a bunch of cash from them.


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
And I'll be gone




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Anonymous

Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2949858 - 07/31/04 09:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

We just need to get bush out of office. Economy is eating shit, buying gas is like trying to buy a brick of 24k gold, half of our army is in the middle east fighting for the "holy land" and to get saddam gone.

I think 9/11 is one big conspiracy. I think bush payed money to the familys of the suicide airplaine bombers that died. He did this so he can get the USA against the Middle East and want to capture Saddam and Osama. Bush (jus like his good ol' daddy) wanted to start wars and be in combat. No wonder why the Iraqi's and everybody else in that bandwagon hates us. Because all as we do is run in thier homes, slit thier babies throats, blow out the brains of thier husband, and throw the wife in prison where she has to pose naked in shoots.

Overall the only war that i think should be happening is making all organic drugs legal (fresh cocaine that was just ground up...not through all the factory and added chemical crap, weed, mushrooms, and peyote.) This should be the only war going on right now. Come to think of it, alcohol is worse then cannabis. With alcohol you cant see straight, dont remember anything, mood swings, and dizzyness. Cannabis you can still think straight, slow reflexes, more appetite, and see random colors + tye dye things. ALL mushrooms should be legalized because they have no long term effects whatsoever. They should be sold in shops and have to be 18 to purchase them. Law should be DUI charges. Weed should be legalized and 18 to purchase. Weed isnt addicting because there are no added chemicals (unless laced) and have many medical benefits. Cocaine leafs should only be sold and people could grind them up themselves so there wont be any extra chemicals for sure. You should be 21 to buy cocaine and DUI offences should count. Peyote should be sold at the age of 18 and DUI charges still occour.

Remember the NOFX words...ROCK AGAINST BUSH!!!

Peace
((gAwK))


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2949904 - 07/31/04 10:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If a country is with terrorists they are obviously against US. Countries that don't support stopping terror are deliberately allowing it to happen. Therefore, if you freinds with our enemies and not us, you are also our enemy. Makes perfect sense to me.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2949928 - 07/31/04 10:10 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The attitude is arrogant and wrong. What might solve that though is an internationalist president.


--------------------


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InvisibleSteinM
Stranger
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Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 35,129
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: ]
    #2949951 - 07/31/04 10:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

With what you think you might as well have "INSANE" stamped on your forhead and be dressed in a white jacket. The conspiracy which you are trying to relate to the situation would have to run so deep that there would really be a "shadow government". In which case would involve multiple or all countries on the face of the planet.

As far as your gas price shpeal, that won't change, and if you think the war was about oil please tell me why I still pay two bucks a gallon.

Pop a zit and lay off the paranoia plant.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Stein]
    #2950127 - 07/31/04 11:16 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stein said:
As far as your gas price shpeal, that won't change, and if you think the war was about oil please tell me why I still pay two bucks a gallon.



It's not about what you pay at the pump, but the profit the oil and oil related industries make for the benefit of the politically connected.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleSteinM
Stranger
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Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 35,129
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Evolving]
    #2953350 - 08/01/04 09:06 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Im not saying you can't, but, prove it. Give me some links, company logs, year end profits..anything. I am too lazy to search for the rhetoric myself simply because I don't believe what your saying.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 191,678
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Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Stein]
    #2953665 - 08/01/04 10:09 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

here's a little information regarding that for you...

http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml

CHENEY ENERGY TASK FORCE DOCUMENTS FEATURE MAP OF IRAQI OILFIELDS

Commerce & State Department Reports to Task Force Detail Oilfield & Gas Projects, Contracts & Exploration

Saudi Arabian & UAE Oil Facilities Profiled As Well



(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, said today that documents turned over by the Commerce Department, under court order as a result of Judicial Watch?s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit concerning the activities of the Cheney Energy Task Force, contain a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as 2 charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and ?Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts.? The documents, which are dated March 2001, are available on the Internet at: www.JudicialWatch.org.

The Saudi Arabian and United Arab Emirates (UAE) documents likewise feature a map of each country?s oilfields, pipelines, refineries and tanker terminals. There are supporting charts with details of the major oil and gas development projects in each country that provide information on the projects, costs, capacity, oil company and status or completion date.

Judicial Watch has been seeking these documents under FOIA since April 19, 2001. Judicial Watch was forced to file a lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia (Judicial Watch Inc. v. Department of Energy, et al., Civil Action No. 01-0981) when the government failed to comply with the provisions of the FOIA law. U.S. District Court Judge Paul J. Friedman ordered the government to produce the documents on March 5, 2002.

The documents were produced in response to Judicial Watch?s on-going efforts to ensure transparency and accountability in government on behalf of the American people. Judicial Watch aggressively pursues those goals by making FOIA requests and seeking access to public information concerning government operations. When the government fails to abide by these ?sunshine laws? Judicial Watch files lawsuits in order to obtain the requested information and to hold responsible government officials accountable.

?These documents show the importance of the Energy Task Force and why its operations should be open to the public,? stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.

Click here for: MAPS AND CHARTS OF OILFIELDS:


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Stein]
    #2953744 - 08/01/04 10:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinebarfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2956730 - 08/02/04 04:29 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
If a country is with terrorists they are obviously against US. Countries that don't support stopping terror are deliberately allowing it to happen. Therefore, if you freinds with our enemies and not us, you are also our enemy. Makes perfect sense to me.




might as well take on the entire world then and get this shit over with


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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InvisibleSorted
Monkee
Registered: 12/27/98
Posts: 301
Loc: UK
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2956826 - 08/02/04 04:56 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
If a country is with terrorists they are obviously against US. Countries that don't support stopping terror are deliberately allowing it to happen. Therefore, if you freinds with our enemies and not us, you are also our enemy. Makes perfect sense to me.



I see. So country's have to be either for or against and can't just stay out of messes that they haven't created? Like the way the U.S pretty much stayed out of the IRA situation for three decades, whilst civilians got bombed by an organisation substancially funded by American $$$ donated from American citizens. But now when they want help everyone has to join in or face being labelled as terrorist supporters.. the irony.


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InvisibleDieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 27,904
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Sorted]
    #2956904 - 08/02/04 05:15 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If the argument is for freedom or against freedom (which i think it is) then the "With us or Against us" attitude is quite proper. I agree Sorted, the US should not have stayed out, and the least we could have done was stop the funding from American dollars. I wish the US had more of this attitude.


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OfflinegbX
fungiphile

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 51
Loc: Christiania, DK
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2956929 - 08/02/04 05:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

that sentence made headlines, people , usa lost alot of respect from the world that day bush opened up his mouth and said that.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Inner Eye
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Zahid]
    #2957004 - 08/02/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
The attitude is arrogant and wrong. What might solve that though is an internationalist president.





I agree, lets just get this guy out of office for starters and go from there...


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
And I'll be gone




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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 2,290
Loc: Inner Eye
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: gbX]
    #2961160 - 08/03/04 07:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gbX said:
that sentence made headlines, people , usa lost alot of respect from the world that day bush opened up his mouth and said that.





Absolutely


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
And I'll be gone




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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 6 months, 6 days
Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2965539 - 08/04/04 08:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Let's just open the election to everybody. Anybody from any country will be given a vote for the US president.

As for "with us or against us" upsetting some people, this is not surprising. A great many nations were getting fat off the continuing half measures and stood to lose if forced to make a stand. Tough. Choose.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
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Re: The "With us, or against us" attitude of The States.... [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2966019 - 08/04/04 11:09 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

look at this forum northern...there's an Us Vs. Them attitude in our own country...let alone USA vs the world.

but yes I agree that mindset is what they need to keep that capitalist train moving!


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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