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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2948652 - 07/31/04 01:15 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
Clearcutting, strip mining, factory farming.... and any other of these brutal practices we could come up with are violent against HUMANS as well as against animals, plants, ecosystems.




Cutting down trees isn't the same as shooting people. What was your answer to my question about harvesting marijuana plants? Thats the same as murder to you, right?
Quote:


Take the example of the clearcut in Oregon that caused an entire mountain to slide into a little rural community, destroying houses and killing the parents of several young children.




In that situation, it is entirely possible that other laws or regulations were overlooked.
Quote:


Strip mining has caused, in countless occassions, water supplies to be totally contaminated. Factory farmed meat is full of horomones that are very bad for our bodies.




You sound like a politican ranting about drugs. People should be educated about the meat they purchase and then be given a right to choose, not have th "right" decision forced on them by guerilla tactics.
Quote:


I have no desire to negatively impact the livelihood of the working class, far from it. The working class and us damn radicals are not enemies. Take the example of Judi Bari who was both doing environmental direct action AND organizing loggers to fight for better labour conditions, so that when environmentalists blocked them from going to work they'd still get paid.




I can't do anything but shake my head.
Quote:


The FBI set off a bomb in her car.




I'd like to see some evidence of this, I've never heard of it before.
Quote:


I have never attempted to say that two wrongs make a right because monkeywrenching and sabotage are NOT WRONG when they are a useful means of defending life against the machinery of abstraction and exploitation.




How about gassing people? It's "not wrong" to kill executives when it's for a cause that you are totally sure is right, right?
Quote:


As far as I'm concerned terrorism is threatening to injure innocent living beings for political ideology. Threatening the very machinery that is oppressing YOU and all you hold sacred is SELF DEFENCE.




Uh-huh.
Quote:


Tactics like sabotage are necessary because not everyone will be swayed by words and those that continue to oppress and murder for power have to be stopped. Is it wrong for a woman who's being raped to punch the rapist in the face?





Arguing with you would be like arguing with a KKK member, an Al-queda member, a Weatherman, or any member of any other organization that has convinced themselves that they are always totally right, and that the best way is to use violence. Extremists are pathetic sheep.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: retread]
    #2948690 - 07/31/04 01:22 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I'd like to see some evidence of this, I've never heard of it before.




Yes, the FBI cooperated with many bombings and assassinations of activists. Judi Bari is just one example:

http://www.judibari.org/jury's_message.html#continue

http://www.judibari.org/%60bari_writings_index.html

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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: Vvellum]
    #2948726 - 07/31/04 01:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I can't find anything about her being murdered by the FBI. Maybe I'm missing something...

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: retread]
    #2948748 - 07/31/04 01:34 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

she wasnt murdered by the FBI (although she almost was). keep reading.

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Invisiblerogue_pixie
faerydae
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: retread]
    #2948811 - 07/31/04 01:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

"Extremists are pathetic sheep."

*laughs out loud*

That's one of the dumbest statements I ever heard.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #2948830 - 07/31/04 01:54 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

The English Crown considered those pesky revolutionaries extremists and they certainly used violence.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2948906 - 07/31/04 02:13 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

NiamhNyx said " so that when environmentalists blocked them from going to work they'd still get paid."

You should be paying rent for a house that was never built.


--------------------

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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2948984 - 07/31/04 02:32 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
NiamhNyx said  " so that when environmentalists blocked them from going to work they'd still get paid."

You should be paying rent for a house that was never built.




:thumbup:

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Folding@home Statistics
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Posts: 27,660
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Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #2950342 - 07/31/04 10:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I wonder how these eco-terrorists feel about the vivisection of unborn human fetuses.


--------------------
This space for rent

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2950352 - 07/31/04 10:43 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

They're cool with it.

pinky


--------------------

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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Registered: 09/01/02
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Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: retread]
    #2950369 - 07/31/04 10:48 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

First of all harvesting a crop of pot is not the same as cutting down a forest because its a fucking monoculture crop, you can grow it in your basement and just plant more once you harvest it. An old growth ecosystem is a whole lot more complex, being the unique home for thousands of species. YOu can't just replant a unique ecosystem, it will never be as diverse and as developed as it was before it was destroyed. Do you realize that every day 20 species go extinct? Only a couple decades ago it was 1 species a day and not much early than that it wasn't even 1 a month.... The rate at which ecosystems are being destroyed is, according to a very wide range of scientists and other people who study this shit, leading to a very likely ecological collapse that would probably happen within this century.

Protecting ecosystems is about protecting all life. We are literally killing ourselves off. We are overusing our planet to such a degree that we won't be able to sustain ourselves for more than a few decades longer at best.

You tell me who's the extremist. The people that are attempting to prevent or at least slow down this headlong rush into self destruction, or the people that are perpretrating and increasing the rate of this collapse.

By the way, thanks for bakcing me up on Judi Bari. I'd also like to site the example of Anna Mae Aquash who recieved death threats by FBI members and then was killed a year later. They are now framing John Graham for the murder. We also conclusively know that the FBI framed Leonard Peltier for murder as well. I can defintly dig up a lot of information on the murder or framing of radicals by state agencies if you really need me too but all you really need to do is read up on COINTELPRO.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2950373 - 07/31/04 10:48 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You're right, "terrorist" is most certainly tossed around a bit too lightly. Mostly, they are common criminals.




kill a man because he is black and it's a hate crime, why is it no longer just murder... the crime is the same the motive is different, is a terrorist not just a killer with a fancy name.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2950381 - 07/31/04 10:52 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:

By the way, thanks for bakcing me up on Judi Bari. I'd also like to site the example of Anna Mae Aquash who recieved death threats by FBI members and then was killed a year later. COINTELPRO.




do a little reading on 'extremist' groups like the branch davidians... you will soon learn that this is a more frequent event than you ever immagined...when the crime is well known the criminals are still not punished... read Lon Horiutchi

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InvisiblepB0t
I'm a teapot
Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 2,556
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists *DELETED* [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #2950565 - 07/31/04 11:59 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by pB0t

Reason for deletion: .


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: pB0t]
    #2950664 - 08/01/04 12:28 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pB0t said:
No one is going to listen to a bunch of violent nutjobs.




that explains why people dont listen to americans...

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2950786 - 08/01/04 01:18 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I wonder how these eco-terrorists feel about the vivisection of unborn human fetuses.

The research is sure as hell going to be a lot more valuable carried out on humans than animals.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: Phred]
    #2950793 - 08/01/04 01:21 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

They're cool with it.

Source?

Incidentally, why shouldn't human beings have the "choice" of whether or not to sell themselves for experimentation? You are wholeheartedly behind giving people the "choice" to work in sweatshops under conditions that will rapidly kill them, what's the big deal about human vivisection? If a mother wants to sell her fetus (or herself) for experimentation to provide her other children a better life who are you to deny her that "choice"?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Posts: 27,660
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Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: Xlea321]
    #2951130 - 08/01/04 06:48 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

To be pro-animal rights, and pro choice is hypocracy.


--------------------
This space for rent

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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2951218 - 08/01/04 08:50 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
First of all harvesting a crop of pot is not the same as cutting down a forest because its a fucking monoculture crop, you can grow it in your basement and just plant more once you harvest it.




So killing a tree and killing a human are the same, but killing pot plants isn't. Do you have a system for this logic, or is it just "go with whatever sounds good at the time"?
Quote:


An old growth ecosystem is a whole lot more complex, being the unique home for thousands of species. YOu can't just replant a unique ecosystem, it will never be as diverse and as developed as it was before it was destroyed.




Sometimes I don't know who is more arrogant, the people who are pillaging our land, or the people who see Mother Nature as this fragile system that humans can so easily destroy. Nature will always find a way to come back. The parks at Yellowstone are more beautiful now than they once were. You use the word "never" and it shows your ignorance of these matters. In 500 years, that clear cut forest, even if totally left alone by humans, will be a thriving ecosystem again. I'm not trying to defend such practises, I'm just showing you that each side is a little bit wrong.
Quote:


Do you realize that every day 20 species go extinct? Only a couple decades ago it was 1 species a day and not much early than that it wasn't even 1 a month.... The rate at which ecosystems are being destroyed is, according to a very wide range of scientists and other people who study this shit, leading to a very likely ecological collapse that would probably happen within this century.




I think that the number of species going extinct / day is something thats honestly just impossible to calculate. I could say that a trillion species are being made extinct every day, but usually these scientists say that it's "unknown" species, so they don't realy have any evidence to support their claims
Quote:


Protecting ecosystems is about protecting all life. We are literally killing ourselves off. We are overusing our planet to such a degree that we won't be able to sustain ourselves for more than a few decades longer at best.




"A few decades"? I hope we are both around then so I can show you how wrong you are on that prediction. Also, lets say that you are right, and that humans through pollution and raping mother earth will kill ourselves off. Don't you think that Nature will then reclaim the earth? Look at houses that have been abandoned for 10 years, vines growing all over them, termites eating them away. A thousand years after the last human dies, most traces of us will be deteroriated. Earth will survive, the question is, will we?
Quote:


You tell me who's the extremist. The people that are attempting to prevent or at least slow down this headlong rush into self destruction, or the people that are perpretrating and increasing the rate of this collapse.




I don't think that the collapse is as imminent as you seem to believe.
Quote:


By the way, thanks for bakcing me up on Judi Bari.




I think that you said that the FBi bombed her car, but you still haven't shown me any evidence of this. The only link that bio showed talked about the settlement that was awarded against the FBI, nothing about her murder at their hands.
Quote:


I'd also like to site the example of Anna Mae Aquash who recieved death threats by FBI members and then was killed a year later. They are now framing John Graham for the murder. We also conclusively know that the FBI framed Leonard Peltier for murder as well. I can defintly dig up a lot of information on the murder or framing of radicals by state agencies if you really need me too but all you really need to do is read up on COINTELPRO.



I'd like you to, yes.

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Invisiblerogue_pixie
faerydae
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
Re: New Laws Against Animal Rights Activists [Re: pB0t]
    #2951233 - 08/01/04 09:08 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pB0t said:
People who use violence, destruction and intimidation to further their agendas make me sick.




What, like your government you mean? :rolleyes:


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP


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