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Invisible2Experimental
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how true are zodiacs and astrology
    #2943702 - 07/30/04 08:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I find myself unable at times to escape the stereotype of a Leo .... how can I overcome the specific weak areas asigned to me by 'the stars'?, and are these things just my imagination... if tommorow I up and decided to become the type of person as described by say: Aries or Gemini, can I become this? well the first answer would be yes: I can do whatever the hell I want... but I find it hard to reshape WHO I AM so easily.... should I even try.. I like many things about myself, but I feel certain downfalls like addictions and lazyness are 'assigned' to me by god, or whatever the hell runs the stars and the universe..

please tell me if I am deluding reality and making up nonsense



. I also feel my chinese symbol plays a part of who I am..... until last week I had no idea my symbol was an ox. How much I am like the qualities assigned to it astounded me... it's almost as the thing I read layed the underlying problem of almost all my problems.


can this be true? or am just medling in areas I shoulden't with all this astrology crap!


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2943734 - 07/30/04 08:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have this theory about astrology and the various descriptions of different signs, and how they're "supposed to be".

The theory is basically that anyone can be any sign, and that the descriptions are specifically designed to only discuss traits that everyone has at one time or another. I think the idea is to feed the user enough positive aspects that they'll WANT to relate to, whether they really are that way or not. Thus, they find a way to fit themselves into their sign.

For instance.. I'm a Gemini, and I fit the Gemini description really well, except for a few discretions. But, I also fit the capricorn description really well, except for a few discretions. There's always a few differences, which creates the "breathing room" necessary to make the entire process inspecific enough that anyone can find a way to relate to each sign.

It's just a theory, and I haven't thought into it that much, nor researched it that much.. haha.

I just don't put much stock in astrology. :P It's interesting when it seems to line up, but I take it with as big a grain of salt as I take with the bible.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2943751 - 07/30/04 08:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

thing is: I read the other discriptions and they DONT fit me! I mean I would like to think maybe they just picked 12 different people types to 12 signs and maybe It was just random chance they actually got it right with how I am on my sign, but it seems more.....


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Offlinebluelou
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2943758 - 07/30/04 08:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Fellow LEO!!

Seems to me i also fit exactlly every day lately? im greek and i believe!!
Your a Leo be tuff and mush on blaze the path and know your not wrong!!


--------------------
Have you tried my(black kow) pile style tek outdoors!!!!!!!!


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2943772 - 07/30/04 09:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

haha.. well, it's just a theory like I said. I do find that I fit the gemini description a little better than most of the others.

But I still don't put any stock in it, heh.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2943784 - 07/30/04 09:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

how can you shrug it off and put no stock there? if that much is true, what else can you discover about yourself with these means? it would seem very clear this is evidence of some sort of overlying system that science can't explain... but ya, better just SHRUG IT OFF!


Edited by 2Experimental (07/30/04 09:25 AM)


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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2943829 - 07/30/04 09:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yea im a gemini too, and from what i keep reading theyre supposed to be spontaneous and distracted...like a glove

i havent studied up on the other signs, though


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2943834 - 07/30/04 09:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't see how a description of my traits is supposed to somehow lead me somewhere.

I create my own path, instead of following pre-carved paths. Is that alriiight with yoooouuu?

Okay then.

I didn't come in here and tell you not to believe in it. You can if you want. I just don't. No need to belittle me for it.

If you really want to know, I attribute the evidence of the "overlying system" to be an example of the power of our minds, and how we are very capable of deluding ourselves when we want to.

Again, it's JUST MY OPINION.

P.S. I'm already quite aware of the fact that there is something going on on a deeper level than science has been able to explain so far. Just because I don't put my eggs in the "astrology" basket does not mean I don't have any eggs at all.

Edit: To further explain my opinions on this situation.. I think that reading into things that tell you you are a certain way is akin to accepting limitation. Instead of letting someone tell me my paramaters, I will be what I want to be.

Think about this: If I am very reclusive (which I am!) and astrologists tell me that Geminis are reclusive, I match the description. This implies a limitation of my ability to break out of the reclusiveness. I refuse to accept said limitations. Instead I will carve my own path and teach myself how to be less reclusive, until I no longer match the description. Not because I don't want to match the description, but because I find my reclusiveness to be limiting to my freedom and my ability to enjoy life.


Edited by JacquesCousteau (07/30/04 09:50 AM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2943944 - 07/30/04 11:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Astrology is definitely far from full-proof. I wouldn't base any major life decisions on it. It's my belief that astrology is just one of many things that affects a person's personality and behavior. Upbringing and genetics probably play a much greater role.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineferago2
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2944045 - 07/30/04 11:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I try to live my life the way I want to, not the way someone tells me that the time of year my parents' condom broke in says I should.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2944087 - 07/30/04 11:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Something Stephen Hawking wrote that i'll quote here:

Quote:


"The human race has always wanted to control the future, or at least to predict what will happen. That is why astrology is so popular. Astrology claims that events on the Earth are related to the motions of the planets across the sky. This is a scientifically testable hypothesis, or would be if astrologers stuck their necks out and made definite predictions that could be tested. However, wisely enough, they make their forecasts so vauge that they can apply to any outcome. Statements such as "Personal relations may become intense" or "You will have a financially rewarding opportunity" can never be proved wrong.

But the real reason most scientists don't believe in astrology is not scientific evidence or the lack of it, but because it is not consistent with other theories that have been tested by experiment. When Copernicus and Galileo discovered that the planets orbit the Sun rather than the Earth, and Newton discovered the laws that govern their motion, astrology because extremely implausible. Why should the positions of othe rplanets against the background sky as seen from Earth have any correlations with the macromolecules on a minor planet that call themselves intelligent life?



Yet this is what astrology would have us believe. There is no more experimental evidence for some of the theories described in this book (The Universe In a Nutshell) than there is for atsrology, but we believe them because they are consistent with theories that have survived testing." --Stephen Hawking.





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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2944133 - 07/30/04 12:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yay!! I?m a Leo too!!

anyway... I think the only way to really test this out is to have people who truly do not know what their atrological signs are, but are old enough to know their own characterists, go through and read all the characteristics of each sign and picking the one that describes them best and see if everyone picks their actually sign.

I don?t really believe in astrology or anything that much, but I do have this awesome little marble end table that has the star signs etched on in...

here?s a pic:


and a close up of Leo:


and and I have a Leo tattoo:


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: neuro]
    #2944317 - 07/30/04 01:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

neuro said:
Something Stephen Hawking wrote that i'll quote here:

Quote:


"The human race has always wanted to control the future, or at least to predict what will happen. That is why astrology is so popular. Astrology claims that events on the Earth are related to the motions of the planets across the sky. This is a scientifically testable hypothesis, or would be if astrologers stuck their necks out and made definite predictions that could be tested. However, wisely enough, they make their forecasts so vauge that they can apply to any outcome. Statements such as "Personal relations may become intense" or "You will have a financially rewarding opportunity" can never be proved wrong.

But the real reason most scientists don't believe in astrology is not scientific evidence or the lack of it, but because it is not consistent with other theories that have been tested by experiment. When Copernicus and Galileo discovered that the planets orbit the Sun rather than the Earth, and Newton discovered the laws that govern their motion, astrology because extremely implausible. Why should the positions of othe rplanets against the background sky as seen from Earth have any correlations with the macromolecules on a minor planet that call themselves intelligent life?
<center>

</center>
Yet this is what astrology would have us believe. There is no more experimental evidence for some of the theories described in this book (The Universe In a Nutshell) than there is for atsrology, but we believe them because they are consistent with theories that have survived testing." --Stephen Hawking.







See, that's the thing: Most rebuttals of astrology that I've seen have to do with the premise behind it--that the planets affect our fate. I'm fairly sure that's hogwash as well, but I think there might be something to the idea that the time of one's birth affects their personality.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshamanality
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2945458 - 07/30/04 05:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

interesting indeed!

last night i was reading about 2012. for those who dont know this is the date projected to bring 'the end of history' by the late terrance mckenna. his conclusion was founded based on the patterns found both in the i-ching and his theory of 'novelty'. what terrance did not know howerver, until much later, is that the myan long count (a system designed to predict future winter solstices') ended on the exact day his of projected novelty wave ended, december 21, 2012.

these conclusions were both based on a certain percission observed in the sky above, and the evolution of man.

the myans are belived to have closely documented the movement of the skies, and obserbed a set change over time. they then developed and applied methods of counting and explaining these changes.

as for how this realtes to astrology and signs, it follows the belief that the stars are set, and we can but succomb to them. i believe the astrological sign we fall under does in many ways fit the individual. however i also believe that the rapid increase in novelty and increased spiritual maturity allows the individual to focus on the positive aspects of his/her sign, while consiously working to change the weaknesses.

further reading.

http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html (terrance mckenna's site, reccomended)
http://www.2012.com.au/Site.A.html (varried info, not bad)


Edited by shamanality (07/30/04 05:36 PM)


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: StonedShroom]
    #2946393 - 07/30/04 10:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

wow! that is a badass table for sure, and sitting on leapord skin carpet!?!?!?! (wo)man you got some style in your house... I see how us leo's think alike : ) I think my first tatoo will have the leo symbol in it as well....



And back on subject: I don't make any decisions based on this astrology stuff... I was just concerned that the steroetype fitted to me by whoever makes them would be hard to overcome.... I mean it's not like I can't change, it just seems I am bound to a certain fate.

Thanks for the imput everyone.. I am still trying to figure this out so if anyone else has something to say now is the time !


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Offlineneuro
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: silversoul7]
    #2948201 - 07/31/04 01:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

>>I'm fairly sure that's hogwash as well, but I think there might be something to the idea that the time of one's birth affects their personality.


Sure the time in which we're born affects our personality. Often when i hear people say "If i was alive during the time of Beethoven they would have considered me a genius," however who you are and how you act is all dependent upon the time in which you were born. You could argue even more precise timing would affect how you are, because perhaps being born 1 day different than you were born could have changed some things that multiply as time goes on. That is you would not have experienced certain things thats you would have if you were born 1 day earlier, because you came home from the hospital one day later, did this or that, or certain stimulus in different order or not at all than what would hae happened if it were a day earlier.

However i'll say that i can hypothesize about that all day, but really the time in which you were born you cannot characterize as a set traits that exemplify your personality. Sure i'll concede that the time you were born affects you as certain patterning of events happen, but you cannot just choose a time frame of say between june 22- and july 21 and say that you'll be stubborn, intelligent, industrious and whatever else those bullshit zodiac things say.

If this is even close to what you're thinking when you say the time in which you were born affects your personality, then this is a wholy different argument than what was originally proposed about astrology.


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Offlineshroominsmurf
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2948220 - 07/31/04 01:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah i know what you mean. about astrology. i am a libra, and i fit it to the T. its crazy. i would say that its kind of like what JacquesCousteau
said but i have had people come up to me and be like your a libra huh? im like yeah how did u know? so yeah i dunno i think there is something bout it. weather its true or not i dunno but its kind of hard for me to just dismiss it all together. i think there maybe somethig bout it


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2948277 - 07/31/04 01:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you were here in the "Now" there would be no need for signs, no need to fit into any one description cuz you are......


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Offlinefredthetree
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #2948677 - 07/31/04 03:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

time is motion
planets are in motion
motion of planets = directly connected to time
time = motion


think of planets as "second hands" on a clock. solar systems are "minute hands." galaxies are "hour hands," and everything goes outward (days, weeks, months, whatever)


watching a clock, let's begin observation at.. 4:20. next observable change is 4:20:01, and goes on. the pattern is considerably different (yet the same) as if observation started at 11:30.


i have no idea where this is going. maybe if we can sort out where the "hands" are, we can begin to tell time.


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Offlinefredthetree
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Re: how true are zodiacs and astrology [Re: fredthetree]
    #2948680 - 07/31/04 03:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

of course we can't tell /where/ the positions which determine the time are, so how can we tell what the hands are pointing to?

we have to observe..


hey! people have done that, for /millenia/....


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Amazon Shop: Terrence McKenna

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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