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Anonymous

Re: how much does agar work improve yields?
    #294303 - 04/16/01 09:11 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Ignore holographic, agar culture helps establish a pure culture. A pure culture is the best way to establish uniformity. Multispore germinations are great to. A pure culture of a good strain is what you need to do actual liquid culture, holographic. If you just put spores in water, or honey, the resultant liquid is going to have several strains growing, therefore it will be less uniform upon growing out to the mushroom stage. Most if not all Mushroom farms, not spore vendors, but commercial mushroom farms use pure cultures of known productive quality. When your livelyhood depends on getting uniform harvests, of uniform mushrooms, in a set time frame, under certain environmental parameters, it is an absolute must. If you just want to produce some shrooms mannnnnnnn, do what ever you want. But to argue that multispore germinations are equal to the use of a pure strain of known quality, is rediculous. Everyone in the legal shroom industry starts with a pure culture for spawn production, their livelyhood depends on this. Yield is better, and uncertainty is removed from the equation.

As far as the PF tek goes, I wouldn't use agar to inoculate, because you can't shake the jars to distribute. If you transfered your pure strain to liquid and then inoculated with the liquid , it would work great.

Edited by Teonan on 04/16/01 02:13 PM.



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OfflineTrippinRhino
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: ]
    #294409 - 04/16/01 11:23 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I am to assume then, that a single strain innoculation, will give a more even flush on casings? For example, if one was to clone 1 big shroom onto agar, then, use that agar to innoculate compost and case, the shrooms would all be a relatively the same size? And would they flush at the same rate? A nice handful of the same shrooms to munch.... :-) That would look nice! I realize it is not necessary to get a crop, but if these things are true, then one could harvest a whole flush at the same time etc. w/o waiting hours for the others to mature to their full potential before veil break. Am I correct in my assumptions? I



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Anonymous

Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: TrippinRhino]
    #294479 - 04/17/01 01:00 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

YES YOU ARE ABSOLUTLEY CORRECT. You still will have occassional variations in speed of maturation, and some aborts due to heavy pin set, etc... but it will be relatively even. Isolation of pure strains gives you the ability to know what you are gonna grow each time. Not a general idea, but an exact idea.



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: ]
    #294634 - 04/17/01 04:20 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

It is so clear you are a poser teonan I know youhave never even inoculated a jar much less worked with agar. Why don't you actually read Paul Stamet's "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms" instead of just pretending like you have. The yield benefit of pure culture varies from species to species, cultivar to cultivar. Pinning strategy is a much more relevant determining factor in yield than pure culture, especially on such a small scale. Light, air temperature, relative humidity, co2 and fresh air are the "limiting factors". Introduce the proper lighting, proper relative humidity, proper air temperature and proper levels of fresh air at the right time during the appropriate stages of growth and you maximize yield.

In chapter 15 of GG&MM under the subject of spore-mass inoculation, stamets writes about how in multi spore inoculations the most aggressive strains over ride the weaker strains to gain control of the substrate. They literally overpower and invade the cellular network of the weaker strains. Further more, in other parts of the book Stamets recants his claims from his previous book "The Mushroom Cultivator" that multi spore inoculations are bad.

You are such a poser teonan it is painful. You have not grow anything.



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OfflineTaz
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #294661 - 04/17/01 04:52 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

dude, you are a lost and confused soul! SAD just SADDDD!



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Taz]
    #294672 - 04/17/01 04:58 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Taz... blah blah blah. You are getting repeticious. Here is some advice, stop making a fool of your self, on line and in real life.



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OfflineTaz
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #294677 - 04/17/01 05:03 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

the only person making a fool of himself is you! everybody on here has posted picks of their growing except you....why is that? maybe it's because you have never grown anything?? yep I think that is what it is. oh and if you want to check out some of my most recent pics then look at the thread "milk dunk report" by hippie.

hollow mind



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Taz]
    #294682 - 04/17/01 05:08 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Taz is saw your pathetic pictures, not impressive at all.



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Offlinem0ck5
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #294697 - 04/17/01 05:24 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

oh look at holographic mind acting like he is better than every one and the point is that one dude wasnt all wrong so quit shitting on em we are all here to help find some where else to flip out ,all up on your high hourse best realize your walking around looking like you got a shroom up ypur ass






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OfflineTaz
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #294698 - 04/17/01 05:24 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

hey hollow mind, at least I can prove what I say...can you? oh I forgot, you can't post pics of shrooms you don't grow.



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Taz]
    #294702 - 04/17/01 05:28 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

You have proved that you are a novice with your abort cover cakes ;) If I ever sink to your level of patheticness, where I actually care what nobodies online think of me and feel the need to prove my self to them, I will shoot my self in the head/



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OfflineTaz
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: m0ck5]
    #294703 - 04/17/01 05:29 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

no, that is his finger, the other finger is in his mouth and he switches them every 5 minutes to savor the flavor.



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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OfflineTaz
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #294705 - 04/17/01 05:32 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

then why don't you take that gun and do it then? those aborts net me over 12 grams dry from 3 cakes, oh yeah I found your picture today in the dictionary see attachment



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: m0ck5]
    #294707 - 04/17/01 05:33 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

you can thank taz for trolling the thread, mock



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Offlinem0ck5
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Taz]
    #294708 - 04/17/01 05:36 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

oh by the way i havent stared my first batch yet i didnt know what stran to do i was thinking b,b+ (whats the dif ?) or equador any advise,



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OfflineTaz
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: m0ck5]
    #294711 - 04/17/01 05:40 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

b+ grows bigger, equadors are potent as long as you pick them pre-sporulation.

and hollow mind, mock5 knows your the one who trashed the thread shroomgrower wannabe!



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Offlinem0ck5
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Taz]
    #294714 - 04/17/01 05:44 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

do the b's have to be growen differntly?



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OfflineTaz
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: m0ck5]
    #294717 - 04/17/01 05:48 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

no, are you doing them pf cake style? if so grow them normally. they do real good. do you have eq's and B+ are you just trying to decide? if you haven't give the b+ atry and the equadors. are the pf classics are a real easy shroom to grow too. where are you getting the spores from?



--------------------
"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Offlinem0ck5
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Taz]
    #294725 - 04/17/01 05:56 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

well i heard some good things about hawks piont and bad about spore chicks l8ly
i havent bought the spors yet i think im gunna go for equador and clone the best shroom




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OfflineTaz
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: m0ck5]
    #294729 - 04/17/01 05:58 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

ok, lilshopofspores.com has them for 15 bucks a syringe, sporechicks are ok, pf has them for 10 bucks a syringe.



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"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Offlinem0ck5
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Taz]
    #294746 - 04/17/01 06:26 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

i think though in stead of having just the cakes im gunna break them up and mix them w/ a soil shit mix when casing



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OfflineTaz
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: m0ck5]
    #294748 - 04/17/01 06:28 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I aplogize to the community for getting in a flame with holographic mind, Thanks for the encouragement Jat. mock5...try those B+ if this is your first time, I would do those before the equadors, but you should think about getting them both, it will give you a good ideal of the meaning behind different strains. It will help to give you a good understanding if you grew both at the same time, what I mean is a few jars of b+ an a few of EQ's.



--------------------
"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Taz]
    #294767 - 04/17/01 06:58 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

holo your right taz's pics are not extrodinary.......
but at least they are REAL. why are you so hostile anyway? did you daddy abuse you or sumthin?

Clearly, i want people to notice
that i don't want them to notice me...


--------------------
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Offlinepsylohassee
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #294782 - 04/17/01 07:25 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Poster: holographic mind
Subject: Re: how much does agar work improve yields?

You have proved that you are a novice with your abort cover cakes ;) If I ever sink to your level of patheticness, where I actually care what nobodies online think of me and feel the need to prove my self to them, I will shoot my self in the head/


If you hate us morons so much, why post??? methinks your trying to prove yourself to somebody. If you dont care what we think, why defend yourself relentlessly?? Methinks you lied in your above post.

To stay on topic a bit, with agar, you can innoculate peroxidated grain and cut down on contams. Spore innoculation, unless you spend money on a syringe, is more likely to contam, in my experience. So from a purely economical standpoint, agar can free you from vendor reliability.



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Lallafa]
    #294784 - 04/17/01 07:26 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I provide my mushrooms with the best environment I am able to for all stages of growth. Under indentical conditions it makes little or no difference, no yield increases are realized from the use of pure culture with psilocybe cubensis on such a small scale.



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: psylohassee]
    #294787 - 04/17/01 07:29 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I defend my statements because they are accurate and I don't hate anyone.



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Anonymous

Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #294796 - 04/17/01 07:41 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Holographic, if you took the time to read my post you would have seen I diidn't say multispores are bad. I'm just saying they are not as efficient as inoculating with a pure strain. Yes without the proper environment no strain or strains are going to grow well, I also stated that. If you visit a commercial mushroom lab, or grow operation and suggest multispore inoculation as a means to innoculate their substrate, they will do what I do every time I read your posts, LAUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you knew anything about shrooms, genetics, you would have noticed the only false statement I made in this thread. But like most the people around this BBoard, you don't know or don't care to know which statements are true, or which are false. KARYOGOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Sometimes I wonder who is on this site!!!!!!!

And by the way holohead, why is it that you used the words small scale. Do you really believe that something that is true on the large scale, would somehow be different on the small scale. Commercial grow ops are compartmentalized. Each tray is it's own proof as to what I'm stating, grow ops just fruit more trays of more substrate. And P. cubensis is no different than any other mushroom when it comes to this concept. Your stating that one Dikaryon is going to be so aggresive that it will start forming clamp connections with the other dikaryons and merge with them. This is what the BORG of mushroom philosophy. IT is a very infrequent occurence for strains to mate at the Dikaryotic stage, it occurs but infrequently. That brings us back full circle to an earlier thread in which you were trolling, CROSSBREEDING.

Edited by Teonan on 04/17/01 12:59 AM.



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: ]
    #294807 - 04/17/01 07:57 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

teonan you are good at beating a dead horse. I don't even read all of your long drawn out messages, if you made a false statement I am sure it wasn't on purpose you are just trying to cover your ass. that is what the edit function is for. I am sure on a scale of millions of pounds of mushrooms, pure culture makes a difference with medicinal and gourmet mushrooms under cultivation. But for the home grower, growing psilocybe cubensis it makes no difference, stamets is not god and his writting is not scripture, multispore, pure culture, on a small scale with psilocybe cubensis it doesn't matter. in fact i have a interesting tidbit, panaeolus cyanescens actually tends to get contaminated on straw more easily from a pure culture than from spawn of a multi spore inoculation.



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Anonymous

Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #294819 - 04/17/01 08:13 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

IT"S very clear you don't read my posts, and still probably don't relize which statement I made was false. Some people here are interested in mushrooms, not just cubensis or Cop.'s , and most people don't grow those on straw anyway. Stametes is extremely knowledgable but isn't the only source. I did go to school, an AG school. It is amazing what one can learn if you spend some time in a Library. There are all sorts of books on the subject. This is the last place I would come to study MYCOLOGY. This is a great place to see pics, get some advice, and most importantly get access to vendors to supply the spore races we all seem to enjoy. If it is an education you are searching for this is not the place to come. Edit function also allows you to add to posts, instead of adding a new post. My statement that contains the misinfo is not edited. I have told you twice what it was, and you still don't know.



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Anonymous

Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #294846 - 04/17/01 08:57 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Whoa, did I just read

"stamets is not god and his writting is not scripture"

From holographic_mind / sean1234





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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: ]
    #294964 - 04/17/01 01:43 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I don't care to know what false statements you made poser, because you haven't grown shit and i never read your bull shit posts fully.




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Offlineemetheus
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: Anonymous]
    #295029 - 04/17/01 05:17 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

"stamets is not god and his writting is not scripture"

amen.
just because we've always done it that way,
doesn't prove that's best.
hollowmind has some valid points buried in his hostility.
for most home cultivators,
going to agar is a bit of extra effort for marginal differences.
many never bother with it at all,
and still get great results.
and growing a single strain has its' drawbacks,
esp. when pathogens attack.

Visit http://mycotopia.yage.net


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Anonymous

Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: emetheus]
    #295159 - 04/17/01 09:15 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Ever think that strain selection might result in greater contaminant resistance. I do home cultivate, but half the fun is at the agar stage. Being able to view the diversity of forms that the mycelium will express. This stage is not a must, but it can creat uniformity. Don't feed the fire with holograph.



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Offlineholographic mind
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: ]
    #295161 - 04/17/01 09:18 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

teonan is a pathological liar and a goof.



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OfflineoOjonahOo
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: holographic mind]
    #295484 - 04/18/01 03:36 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

End this bullshit...

How about just discussing the question at hand and refraining from personal attacks.

My Answer: For PF style jars, there are so many other variables that it is doubtful that isolating a pure strain would increase yields to any noticible degree more than other factors from grow to grow. Weighted against the learning curve and the additional steps involved, plus the nominal cost to buy petris, build a glove box or HEPA system etc. I would say it is not worth it unless one is interested in purely intellectual aspects of learning about the way fungus behaves biologically.

By the way, I don't claim my answer is right...i am just trying to add to a discussion and not criticize anyone.

I emptied my bladder
at the top of a tower
and pee'd on the earth below...
...Fuck You, World!


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OfflineKast
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Re: how much does agar work improve yields? [Re: oOjonahOo]
    #295586 - 04/18/01 05:53 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Good point Jonah. I agree completely. For PF style cultivation, agar would be a unneccessary and probably pointless step. Multi-spore does work well on small scale, because as mushroom cultivation is scaled up to a commercial level, a few mushrooms per square foot CAN make a huge difference in profits.

Once a cultivator gets into agar use, not only does it become more fun, it becomes much more labor-intensive, time-consuming and overall, more expensive.

Teonan: It's obvious that you bloat yourself on your knowledge of mushroom culture and you take every opportunity to prove yourself to everyone by using big words and frankly, it's quite annoying. You remind me of a child saying "Well, cheese comes from the moon!" while blowing a raspberry. If you have something to contribute, do it. But dont act all high-and-mighty Mr. AG School Graduate. No hard feelings or anything, I just dont have much patience for immaturity.

Holo: Man, I know some psychologists that would love to get a hold of you. They'd have a field day. You seem to know what you're talking about but you're the type of person that accuses one man of something you do on a regular basis. YOU were the one quoting Stamets, not anyone else. But ultimately, you are right. Stamets is not scripture and I wish this community would distance themselves a bit more from such ideas, but hey, everyone needs an "idol", right?

I apologize for jumping into the argument, but sometimes you feel jittery and just have to speak what's on your mind, you know what I mean?



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