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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Kerry and Stem Cell Research [Re: Evolving]
    #2936838 - 07/28/04 03:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

How can this concept escape someone who's as brilliant as you think you are?



Apparently, quite easily.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 8 days
Re: Kerry and Stem Cell Research [Re: Tao]
    #2936849 - 07/28/04 03:13 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Nice try, but I'm well aware of that particular clause. It can be logically deduced that it serves as a pretext for the following clauses in Article 1 Section 8. Notice how:

Quote:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;





is qualified by further clauses in Article 1 Section 8 that explain the powers of Congress with regard to the military. The same is true for the words 'general welfare,' they are qualified by the other clauses. Profusely embarrassed indeed.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Kerry and Stem Cell Research [Re: Evolving]
    #2937388 - 07/28/04 05:52 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wrong, principles do have a bearing on reality, they are in fact derived from reality.




no, they are derived from our subjective perception of reality.

Quote:

So are you proposing anarchy?




no I'm proposing a government strong enough and sophisticated enough to keep up with technology and keep the power that science has given to the individual in check.

Quote:

Why is it selfish to refuse to support the taking other people's earnings under color of authority?





because sometimes you have to do what's right even though its not something you want to do. Your philosophy does not account for this scenario. The politics you are loyal to put too much trust in the individual's moral compass.

Quote:

Sorry, I don't do straw men. I am not promoting a decadent lifestyle (whatever your mind may imagine that is), nor am I promoting selfishness (though if a person chooses to be selfish, that is none of my business as long as he is not aggressing against others).




compared to the rest of the world, a penniless American bum's life is decadent.

Quote:

Bullshit. Why don't you tell the truth and say that moral principles get in the way of your whims and be done with it. At least that would be honest. Admit that you look upon the individual as a public resource to be harnessed for the cause du jour, and that there is no theoretical end to what burdens you are willing to place upon your fellow man in the name of 'the greater good.'




I thought you said you didnt do straw men? I support government checks to private power, so I guess that makes you think I want everyone to be in chains eating gruel with no rights and no property. Three words dude: reductio ad absurdium.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Kerry and Stem Cell Research [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2937930 - 07/28/04 07:58 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
no I'm proposing a government strong enough and sophisticated enough to keep up with technology and keep the power that science has given to the individual in check.



Not another one of these childish fantasies where you know better how to run everything...

Quote:

Quote:

Why is it selfish to refuse to support the taking other people's earnings under color of authority?



because sometimes you have to do what's right even though its not something you want to do.



That is not an answer to the question.

Quote:

Your philosophy does not account for this scenario.



It's amazing that someone can be so incredibly ignorant and yet so impressed with himself. My morality DOES account for doing something right (or refraining from doing something in order to remain right) even though on some level I may not want it that way. But since these are principles that I choose to live by, I actually want to do what is right. To do right requires an act of volition. To do right does not mean farming out your 'good' deeds and having a third party pay for them under force or threat of force. That is not doing right, that is an act of moral cowardice and shows a glaring lack of conviction needed to do what is right. These concepts can be seen in my previous statements in this thread and others, but this has gone right over your swollen head.

Quote:

The politics you are loyal to put too much trust in the individual's moral compass.



How do you get that? This does not follow from any statements that I made. What's your game, throw a bunch of shit on the wall and see what sticks?

Quote:

compared to the rest of the world, a penniless American bum's life is decadent.



And this relates to the discussion how?

Quote:

I support government checks to private power, so I guess that makes you think I want everyone to be in chains eating gruel with no rights and no property.



Huh? Your guesses are WAY off. I tell you what, give up psychology, you are ill suited to it - your inability to understand another person is a glaring deficiency.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Kerry and Stem Cell Research [Re: Viaggio]
    #2939710 - 07/29/04 08:47 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

This thread is a prime example of the dichotomy of ideal which has been cultivated for 70+ yrs.So to each side of this inane arguement,keep arguing, that is just what is desired of you right now.As long as we as a people are divided by rhetoric from both hands of the same body what you see is what you will continue to get. There are NO conservatives or liberals here just tools of the state spewing whatever rhetoric they've bought into.So all of you "constitutional experts" and "liberdemopublican" pundits keep arguing Uncle Sam loves you just like that.
PS the Constitution is VERY similar to the Bible.People take one passage and run with it,usually to oppress some other group.
I have seen a great deal of typing time devoted to which side is "right" here's the news kids....You are all wrong! We live in an illusory country under illusory law. The reality is we live in the "Corporate Earth" and each and every one of us is eventually expected to produce for the corporation to "earn' our right to the dwindling resources of this planet. No more indiginous tribal lifestyles, no more tribal people only work units. So while you all argue remember the subject is closed and you are merely arguing theory no longer relevent fact.
WR:wexican:


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To old for this place


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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Kerry and Stem Cell Research [Re: whiterasta]
    #2940112 - 07/29/04 10:42 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

BUMP!!!!


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To old for this place


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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Kerry and Stem Cell Research [Re: whiterasta]
    #2942716 - 07/29/04 11:35 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I have seen a great deal of typing time devoted to which side is "right" here's the news kids....You are all wrong! We live in an illusory country under illusory law. The reality is we live in the "Corporate Earth" and each and every one of us is eventually expected to produce for the corporation to "earn' our right to the dwindling resources of this planet. No more indiginous tribal lifestyles, no more tribal people only work units. So while you all argue remember the subject is closed and you are merely arguing theory no longer relevent fact.
 



Silence speaks volumes....
WR:wexican:


--------------------
To old for this place


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