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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Uncrackable crypto?
    #2941214 - 07/29/04 03:45 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Anything is possible right? So in the case of uncrackable cryptography you could feasably make a phone/internet/etc scrambler to ensure 100% secure communications?

Edited by poke smot! (09/07/20 01:46 PM)

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Offlinejarofgreen
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Re: Uncrackable crypto? [Re: poke smot!]
    #2941336 - 07/29/04 04:09 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

As far as normal use is concerned, no, there is no ABSOLUTELY uncrackable security. There is however, a point at which the probability of someone cracking it using any sort of computer is nearing nothing. Like a 1/100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Uncrackable crypto? [Re: poke smot!]
    #2941625 - 07/29/04 05:27 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

they have been working on cracking PGP for many years, it's part of the hackers challenge, to date no one has been sucsessful

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Uncrackable crypto? [Re: poke smot!]
    #2943611 - 07/30/04 05:35 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

> there is no ABSOLUTELY uncrackable security

There are devices which use properties of quantum mechanics to create secure (uncrackable) connections. By easedropping on the data, the data is changed, making it useless for decryption.

> they have been working on cracking PGP for many years

PGP's strength comes from the difficulty in factoring large products. If a trivial method is found to factor large products, PGP will instantly become useless. The hacker challenges that I am familiar with are simply searching for a valid decryption key by trying every possible key combination... a waste of time... we already know that if you try every possible key, you will eventually find the correct one... and we also know that the correct key will unlock the cipher... these brute force 'hacker challenges' are a complete waste of computer time.

> Encrypting something with a continually changing key created by two synchronized devices would lead to something of interest

This implies one of two things:

1) either the key has to be transmitted between the two devices
2) both devices need a way to generate a commonly known key

Method one is already in use in the computing industry today and is commonly called a key exchange and is implemented with public/private encryption. The methods used to exchange a keyset are designed so that somebody listening to the converstation still cannot get the keys without decrypting the exchange. This method is only as strong as the encryption method used during the key exchange.

Method two is also already in use with devices such as SecureID. The problem here is that if somebody figures out the method the two devices use to create a key, the third party can they create a key as well allowing them to decrypt the data.


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Offlinen0xious
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Re: Uncrackable crypto? [Re: poke smot!]
    #2946010 - 07/30/04 06:16 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

i dont believe there is an uncrackable crypto, as a rule of cryptography is that brute force methods will always find the key, as computers are getting more powerful this is likely to be easier


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Its only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything.


You got the gun, I got a plant. Who's the criminal?

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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Uncrackable crypto? [Re: poke smot!]
    #2950555 - 07/31/04 11:55 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Nobody mentioned the use of one-time pad (a.k.a. Vernam) encryption, but it is uncrackable in the conventional sense of the term. Brtue force attempts must be able to tell when they've detected the correct key or they won't succeed. With one-time pads each key is as likely as every other one to be correct. For example, say I encrypt the message 'how are you' with a one time pad and send it off. Someone who attempts to brute-force the encrypted data is as likely to decrypt it as 'bomb canada', 'bite my ass' or any other 11 character string. There's no way to tell with any certainty which one is the original message and which are false positives.

Of course in order for the message to be totally secure, the key itself must be truly random and nobody can intercept it on its way from you to your buddy. There are other downsides too, which have prevented the OTP from taking off as a widely-used method of encryption. For instance, the pad must be the same length as the message and it can only be used once (hence the name). Still, it is interesting that one of the simplest methods of encryption is also (theoretically) the most secure.

For more information see Google.

Peace,

-Y

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Uncrackable crypto? [Re: ]
    #2955367 - 08/02/04 08:08 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

> the use of one-time pad (a.k.a. Vernam) encryption, but it is uncrackable in the conventional sense of the term.

The US actually cracked the Soviet Unions one time pad cypher shortly after WWII. Of course, the Soviets had screwed up... they were reusing the pads. Even unbreakable codes such as the one-time-pad can be broken if they are used improperly.


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