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Offlinephucknut68
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Registered: 12/08/01
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POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >>
    #2940526 - 07/29/04 02:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

On mycotopia I read some stuff from hippie3 who talks about ph testing and how having the ph off can cause side pinning, low yields, and other problems.... I hear a lot of people who say that they dont even use lime or calc carbonate but some people swear its necessary. I recently cased with a 75% coir 25% verm mixture and have had bad luck with the side pinning and pinsets... It seems the 50/50+ works well for me and I think the reason is because the ph balancing is built right into the recipe. (because we all know peat is so acidic)

To make matters worse I have been reading a little about ph testing for soils and it is very difficult to say how accurate the electric ones (even kelway units) are... Even though the god of mushrooms, stamets recommends them. I think I will get one and check it out for the hell of it. I saw a study where they used the kelway and compared it to a lab test... The kelway was off more depending upon moisture levels and it was off by at a minimum at least a half a point up to a maximum of 2 points. Anybody who knows ph knows that it is a logrythmic change so 2 points is a whole lot of difference.
Do you test the ph of your casing?
You may choose only one
Yes I test
No I dont test
If No then do you follow a recipe or tek?
You may choose only one
I follow a recipe that balances ph built in
I dont give a shit about ph or I just mix recipes in funny ways
If yes you test then do you normally have to adjust or are most recipes good as is ?
You may choose only one
No the recipes come out with perfect ph
yes I end up adjusting the ph because it is off


Votes accepted from (07/29/04 02:00 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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OfflineXray_Salami
Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 62
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Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: phucknut68]
    #2941396 - 07/29/04 06:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I am not sure exactly what ph is best for mushies, but I use polyacrylamide copolymer crystals for casing material. It works great by itself as long as it isn't too saturated or packed down.

If used correctly it also helps against overmisting and/or the effects of too high relative humidity, yet holds a ton of water and i've never had to sterilize any. I used a two-point calibrated HANNA ph meter to test it and these were the results:

Tap water - 7.39 @ 75F
Bottled water - 7.38 @ 75F

I don't think you can get a balanced ph much easier than that. The exact numbers depend on the samples of water used. I have access to lab chemicals and I also use lab procedures, so my results may differ from yours.


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Offlinephucknut68
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Registered: 12/08/01
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Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: Xray_Salami]
    #2941437 - 07/29/04 06:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well I think stammets says 7.2 to 7.6 or right around there.... Interesting polyacrylamide copolymer crystals huh.... Those are pretty safe? Thats pretty interesting where do you get that stuff?

Sounds like a nice ph meter you got going on there. It is accurate to the hundredth of a ph??? That is some sweet shit.


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Offlinephucknut68
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Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: phucknut68]
    #2942463 - 07/30/04 12:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

come on guys keep this thing alive for a little while I want to know :smile:


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OfflineXray_Salami
Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 62
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Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: phucknut68]
    #2944732 - 07/30/04 02:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

These are the crystals that I use. It is for soil to keep it from drying out so easily. I get it at Wally World and it's like $2 - $3 for the container.





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OfflineFirstAvailable
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Registered: 02/14/04
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Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: Xray_Salami]
    #2944975 - 07/30/04 03:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How exactly do you use that as a casing? Just sprinkle it on top of the substrate until it is well covered, then water? Do you make a bottom layer of crystals also?

Also, what do you think of this product? It has those crystals mixed in with peat moss, perlite and "organic materials" that I assume are there to make a nice PH level. It also says that there is some sort of plant food mixed in there. Would this effect anything?

Also, in the website description it says that the crystals you mentioned hold 200 times their weight in water, but this product claims to hold 400 times it weight in water. 400 is better than 200, no?

Thanks for mentioning this product, I've never heard of it before, and I appreciate any input you can give.


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OfflineHerbanShaman
I am the Walrus

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 233
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: FirstAvailable]
    #2945795 - 07/30/04 07:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wow!! Did you come up with this yourself? Whoever did deserves two thumbs up once the chemical properties of polyacrylamide copolymer crytals are looked into more. My worry is that the mycelium will incorporate this substance into themselves. This may be ok, are the crystals non-toxic? What about the decay of the product? I would like to see this casing material make it to the level of a Tek if its safe.


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"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me. When I return from the trip that I have taken with them, I tell what they have told me and what they have shown me."
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OfflineFirstAvailable
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Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: HerbanShaman]
    #2946685 - 07/31/04 12:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well ,the label in the picture says:
"Contains non-plant food ingrediant: polycrylamide copolimer. Non-Toxic."


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OfflineXray_Salami
Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 62
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: FirstAvailable]
    #2946773 - 07/31/04 01:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I just spent a good amount of time writing a detailed reply but accidentally erased it, so unfortunately this ones gonna be kinda brief as I am in a hurry.

FirstAvailable:
I can't say anything about the first stuff as I have no experience with it. The second product you meantioned, I believe are the same type of crystals I use but if they turn out to be different let me know. I also had poor lighting when I took the pics, but i'm no photographer.

There weren't many, but most of the posts I read on here about using these crystals said they're no good, except added to substrate mixtures to help retain moisture. So I tried it anyways because I have to learn everything the hard way no matter what. Turns out using the crystals by themselves as a casing layer, a little 1 quart popcorn casing can VERY easily produce 250+ wet grams per flush without even getting a great pinset. They also happen to be pretty potent. After about 3 flushes they start getting smaller.



Herban Shaman:
Well I just saw it one day in the store and bought some. I figured I could use it for my plants anyways. Then I searched around on here for anything I could find about it. I couldn't find alot of people who used it by itself, but I figured it does everything a basic casing layer does and holds alot of moisture. Like I said above though I am stubborn and figured out how to make it work. If you or anybody else would be interested, I could write up a brief TEK on the method i've come up with so far. I believe it could be applied to a number of different substrates and is very easy for people who are new to casing.

The toxicity of these crystals was discussed a little more in depth in the following post from when I first started experimenting with them. I don't recommend using the method I used in that post. Although it did end up having good results, it is highly ineffective compared to my current method. You can experience problems with this substrate that you don't with any other substrate, but once you know how to deal with them, they're easy to take care of.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rt=all&vc=1

Anybody who attempts to follow any of my methods does so at their own risk. Fortunately I have eaten mushies grown with these crystals many times with no adverse effects.


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OfflineAmygdala
Learner

Registered: 06/30/04
Posts: 158
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: Xray_Salami]
    #2947371 - 07/31/04 04:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I would be very interested in seeing more about this, your other post was also pretty informative. Are you still using straight crystals, or have you added in something else like perlite?


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OfflineFirstAvailable
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Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: Xray_Salami]
    #2948262 - 07/31/04 01:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yea, I would be extremely interested if you could write up a tek.


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OfflineXray_Salami
Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 62
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: FirstAvailable]
    #2950399 - 08/01/04 12:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Amygdala:
Yes I still only use the crystals since alot of people post that perlite gets a little messy after a while. Plus buying big bags of perlite, vermiculite, or coco coir and such can get to be a pain. This is convenient because it's such a small container, but at home a few teaspoons turns into alot. One container can last the average closet grower several months.

I'll see what I can come up with in the next few days. It's surprising how easy and effective it is, and in my experiences it's extremely contam resistant. I have even tested very bad techniques for experimentation purposes. I believe alot of people will be surprised by the results.


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Offlinephucknut68
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Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: Xray_Salami]
    #2953552 - 08/01/04 09:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

now you say you have never had to sterilize any I wonder if those would hold up to sterilizing or pasteurizing....... Not sure if they would wet but I bet they would pasteurize dry in the oven. I always worry about that shit.... Another idea would be to use a little h202 in it... I mean as a 1/2 inch or so casing layer they colonize quickly anyways....

I want to hear more about these crystals they sound really good I may recase one of mine with them just to try it out.


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Anonymous

Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: phucknut68]
    #2953585 - 08/01/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hmm. as of right now, 4 people say they test, yet 16 answered the third question in the poll...

hmm....


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: POLL::: &lt;&lt; Do you test your casing ph??? &gt;&gt; [Re: phucknut68]
    #2953671 - 08/01/04 10:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The use of polyacr. crystals as a substrate additive as well as a casing material has been around for quite some time. There has been some debate throughout their being used as to their safety,but as far as I know no conclusive evidence has been provided that link their use to any adverse health risks. I will say,however,that I wouldn't heat them in an effort to sterilize or pasteurize because this would definately effect the breakdown process. They are a stable substance,but applying high temps over a duration may facilitate chemical reactions that will speed the breakdown. I also might add that they work much better when mixed with verm or coir,rather than using them by themselves. They become quite sticky once hydrated and will tend to fuse to one another and hinder myc growth. IMO it is best to hydrate them and add them to a pre pasteurized casing mix.

MYKEY


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Offlinephucknut68
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Re: POLL::: << Do you test your casing ph??? >> [Re: Mykey]
    #2958131 - 08/02/04 11:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yes mushmaster I noticed that.... I guess some people dont read..... But its interesting to note that almost nobody tests the ph... Maybe I am just being paranoid about it. Oh well....

And thx mykey I guess I wont be putting any of those in the oven, but like you say it would be an interesting addative to a 50/50+ imho, I may try it on one of my mini shroomgods....


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