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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
pre-existance
    #2936467 - 07/28/04 03:49 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The concept of pre-existance boggles my mind more then death. When my grandma was young and had my mothers egg somewhere in her belly, where was I? Was I somehow imbedded in some infinite strand of information inside of my mother's cell? It's hard to imagine not existing, then through some miracle a cell receives its plan and begins growing and replicating to create a large lump of matter which is me. How then do I gain self conciousness? How can I move from being nothing --nonexistant-- to a very physical selfconcious being?

some religious people I know disregard the whole big bang theory as crap because they don't see how a little particle could eventually gain conciousness... but in my mind this is exactly what happens in the whole birth process of every concious being. Perhaps there is a god who embodies each new person with a soul to call their own? This seems somewhat farfetched... Perhaps there is a cycle where a finite number of concious beings are floating around and being recycled through death and birth. I duno, it boggles my mind. I haven't looked into it yet, or heard other people's ideas. please share


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Offlineplexus
holding thelight of athousand candles

Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 1,290
Loc: texas
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: pre-existance [Re: fearfect]
    #2936503 - 07/28/04 04:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
When my grandma was young and had my mothers egg somewhere in her belly, where was I?




you were a lonesome old farmer in thailand


--------------------
that there, thats not me. :noway:
i go where i please. :yesnod:
im not here.:shake:
this isnt happening.:nonono:


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: pre-existance [Re: fearfect]
    #2936617 - 07/28/04 04:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Is it any more strange to born twice than born once? It's only a difference of degree. Both are miracles.

There never was a time you and I did not exist, and there will never be a time when we cease to exist.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: pre-existance [Re: fearfect]
    #2936881 - 07/28/04 05:20 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
The concept of pre-existance boggles my mind more then death. When my grandma was young and had my mothers egg somewhere in her belly, where was I? Was I somehow imbedded in some infinite strand of information inside of my mother's cell? It's hard to imagine not existing, then through some miracle a cell receives its plan and begins growing and replicating to create a large lump of matter which is me. How then do I gain self conciousness? How can I move from being nothing --nonexistant-- to a very physical selfconcious being?

some religious people I know disregard the whole big bang theory as crap because they don't see how a little particle could eventually gain conciousness... but in my mind this is exactly what happens in the whole birth process of every concious being. Perhaps there is a god who embodies each new person with a soul to call their own? This seems somewhat farfetched... Perhaps there is a cycle where a finite number of concious beings are floating around and being recycled through death and birth. I duno, it boggles my mind. I haven't looked into it yet, or heard other people's ideas. please share




i think the real issue with the big bang, is that it doesnt not explain creation, but only expansion.

which causes problems of its own, like what is it expanding into?

this is a seperate disscussion.

there is a big group behind the reincarnation theme.
my mom for one, told me that i asked her to be born.

i dont remember doin such a thing by the way.

suposedly there are other people who have memories from "past lives"

well.. maybe..

theres not really a logical base for disscusion on it tho.

maybe someone will come up with something.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
Being.
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Registered: 06/10/03
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Re: pre-existance [Re: BleaK]
    #2936901 - 07/28/04 05:25 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Bleak, could you elaborate about what your mom said? I'm curious.. was she saying that she was literally approached by like.. some really old dude on his death bed, (maybe her grandfather) who asked her to have a child that his soul might pass into?

Or did she simply mean that metaphorically?

Did she elaborate at all? heh. Because that statement alone ("you asked to be born") is kind of lonely.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: pre-existance [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2936998 - 07/28/04 05:52 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

she told me she saw "me" (she claims it was recognizeably me) in a vision. didnt say what age.
i spoke to her, and told her literally, its time for me to be brought into this world..
or something of the like.

then she accidentally got pregnant.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


Edited by BleaK (07/28/04 05:53 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
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Re: pre-existance [Re: BleaK]
    #2937007 - 07/28/04 05:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What if she had said bugger off...


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
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Re: pre-existance [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2937015 - 07/28/04 05:56 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
What if she had said bugger off...




ive told her that would have been my preference.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: pre-existance [Re: BleaK]
    #2937895 - 07/28/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

No I don't think so....if you felt that way you wouldn't be here now.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: pre-existance [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2937984 - 07/28/04 10:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

yes.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offline777
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Registered: 07/29/04
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Re: pre-existance [Re: fearfect]
    #2940451 - 07/29/04 02:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I've always believed that the spirit exists and is appointed to the intended recipient at conception.

As far as the big bang theory is concerned, I certainly agree with it as long as people acknowledge that a being of undescribable intelligence initiated the process.

It boggles my mind that people believe that the Earth and every detail including its position from the sun, gravitational properties and the incredible living things (including us) that exist on it, all happened by chance. People say that it makes no sense to believe that there was/is a "Creator", but I say it makes even less sense to believe that there wasn't one. How could something so infinitely complex happen by chance? Thinking rationally, there is simply no way that it could have happened by chance.

Nothing happens by chance. Absolutely nothing. Everything that happens was intended to happen and happens for a reason, its just that many times out of our own ignorance we fail to realize that reason or meaning. I think people talk about things happening by chance often times when something bad happens or something unexpected. Either way, it doesn't mean it "just happened for no reason".

If you're here, existing, you're hear for a reason. Granted, many of us feel like there is no reason for our existence, but I've put a lot of thought into this and I came up with something that may shed some light..... Many times we feel that our existence makes no sense, or has no point, mainly because we've had bad lives or lives that have been unfulfilling. Much of this thought is the product of believing internally that each of us are supposed to do something GREAT and GRANDIOSE with our existence, rather than suffering or just not measuring up to what we thought we would be. The real truth is, maybe you weren't intended to do anything great. Because you exist, it doesn't automatically mean that you are here to do something amazing with your life.

Your biggest purpose in life could have been to cross the street at age 35 and shake the hand of someone, or help a family member improve themselves so that they would go on and do something great, or even save someone from a disaster. Sound farfetched? Think about it some more... Think about how Children die at young ages. What was the great accomplishment in that childs life? Was there one at all? Was there supposed to be?

And many times, people die directly after the accomplishment of a goal. Think about how many times you've heard of someone dying RIGHT after they accomplished a lifelong goal, or just something big in general. Was it their one purpose in life to accomplish that goal? One could certainly make a strong case.

The point is, not every life on earth has this amazing purpose, but each one DOES have a purpose and does have an impact whether large, small or barely noticeable, if noticeable at all.

I look at existence on Earth as a huge ball of confusion, with a system run by heartless crooks. 99% of what we place importance on is totally unimportant in the grand scheme of things. We waste our lives chasing after nonsense like money and possessions, when in the end all you're going to do is die and leave it to someone else. I look at existence here as simply a passing through to something else. Will that something else be better than this? Perhaps, but we really don't know right now. We'll just have to die first and then find out.... Life's great isn't it? LOL.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: pre-existance [Re: 777]
    #2941221 - 07/29/04 05:47 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

777 said:
I've always believed that the spirit exists and is appointed to the intended recipient at conception.

As far as the big bang theory is concerned, I certainly agree with it as long as people acknowledge that a being of undescribable intelligence initiated the process.

It boggles my mind that people believe that the Earth and every detail including its position from the sun, gravitational properties and the incredible living things (including us) that exist on it, all happened by chance. People say that it makes no sense to believe that there was/is a "Creator", but I say it makes even less sense to believe that there wasn't one. How could something so infinitely complex happen by chance? Thinking rationally, there is simply no way that it could have happened by chance.





thats infinity for u, anything that can happen, is happening somewhere.
Quote:



Nothing happens by chance. Absolutely nothing. Everything that happens was intended to happen and happens for a reason, its just that many times out of our own ignorance we fail to realize that reason or meaning. I think people talk about things happening by chance often times when something bad happens or something unexpected. Either way, it doesn't mean it "just happened for no reason".

If you're here, existing, you're hear for a reason. Granted, many of us feel like there is no reason for our existence, but I've put a lot of thought into this and I came up with something that may shed some light..... Many times we feel that our existence makes no sense, or has no point, mainly because we've had bad lives or lives that have been unfulfilling. Much of this thought is the product of believing internally that each of us are supposed to do something GREAT and GRANDIOSE with our existence, rather than suffering or just not measuring up to what we thought we would be. The real truth is, maybe you weren't intended to do anything great. Because you exist, it doesn't automatically mean that you are here to do something amazing with your life.

Your biggest purpose in life could have been to cross the street at age 35 and shake the hand of someone, or help a family member improve themselves so that they would go on and do something great, or even save someone from a disaster. Sound farfetched? Think about it some more... Think about how Children die at young ages. What was the great accomplishment in that childs life? Was there one at all? Was there supposed to be?

And many times, people die directly after the accomplishment of a goal. Think about how many times you've heard of someone dying RIGHT after they accomplished a lifelong goal, or just something big in general. Was it their one purpose in life to accomplish that goal? One could certainly make a strong case.

The point is, not every life on earth has this amazing purpose, but each one DOES have a purpose and does have an impact whether large, small or barely noticeable, if noticeable at all.

I look at existence on Earth as a huge ball of confusion, with a system run by heartless crooks. 99% of what we place importance on is totally unimportant in the grand scheme of things. We waste our lives chasing after nonsense like money and possessions, when in the end all you're going to do is die and leave it to someone else. I look at existence here as simply a passing through to something else. Will that something else be better than this? Perhaps, but we really don't know right now. We'll just have to die first and then find out.... Life's great isn't it? LOL.




i think its absurd to think someones only purpose in life is to sacrifice themselve for someone else.

tho i do see the humility in that.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offline777
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Registered: 07/29/04
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Re: pre-existance [Re: BleaK]
    #2941878 - 07/29/04 08:56 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It could very well be absurd. Of course, when you consider varying circumstances, it may seem less so. What if the life a person was purposed to save was that of a great scientist/inventor who's own purpose was to discover a cure for a deadly disease or some other impact that would be extremely beneficial to human life?

Lets also consider this.... Who is to say that we only have one single purpose, each? We probably have a number of purposes, some may be minor in degrees leading all the way up to your grand purpose. Along the way, you may save someone from a burning building, and you may also discover the cure for a deadly disease, too, each of which were meant to happen...

The way I see it, since everything happens for a reason, people both live and die for a reason, and because of this, anything that can be done on Earth which is Humanly possible must be part of the 'list', so to speak, of purposes that ones existence was meant for.

To say that it couldn't be to save someone else or many lives would be to say that the range of purposes can only be recognized in accomplishments or minor actions. Discovering a cure for a deadly disease is a major action, but so is saving one single life from a burning building especially if that life was meant to go on do something great.

If we dismissed this thought altogether, wouldn't we be throwing out or at least weakening the whole possibility of varying purposes and the magnitude of purpose in general?


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: pre-existance [Re: 777]
    #2941898 - 07/29/04 09:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

777 said:
It could very well be absurd. Of course, when you consider varying circumstances, it may seem less so. What if the life a person was purposed to save was that of a great scientist/inventor who's own purpose was to discover a cure for a deadly disease or some other impact that would be extremely beneficial to human life?

Lets also consider this.... Who is to say that we only have one single purpose, each? We probably have a number of purposes, some may be minor in degrees leading all the way up to your grand purpose. Along the way, you may save someone from a burning building, and you may also discover the cure for a deadly disease, too, each of which were meant to happen...

The way I see it, since everything happens for a reason, people both live and die for a reason, and because of this, anything that can be done on Earth which is Humanly possible must be part of the 'list', so to speak, of purposes that ones existence was meant for.





im glad, at least u didnt say "good" reason.
Quote:



To say that it couldn't be to save someone else or many lives would be to say that the range of purposes can only be recognized in accomplishments or minor actions. Discovering a cure for a deadly disease is a major action, but so is saving one single life from a burning building especially if that life was meant to go on do something great.

If we dismissed this thought altogether, wouldn't we be throwing out or at least weakening the whole possibility of varying purposes and the magnitude of purpose in general?




u bring up many possible good reasons.
supose there are bad reasons as well.
like profit.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offline777
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Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 20
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Re: pre-existance [Re: BleaK]
    #2941948 - 07/29/04 09:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Excellent thought Bleak.

Many years ago, I would have dismissed the thought of any life purpose being bad, but after seeing so many things from both sides over the years, I have no choice but to agree with it.

Today, I look at it from the perspective that purposes of evil must have been intended and constructed, otherwise it would completely destroy the thought of purpose altogether.

Its these types of discussions that make Mankind wonder why the Most High with all the knowledge that he had/has would have even brought this to a beginning in the first place. I suppose that we have to look at the possibilities of purpose in the afterlife to at least approach an understanding of that.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: pre-existance [Re: 777]
    #2941973 - 07/29/04 09:29 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

u lost me  :wink:


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offline777
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Re: pre-existance [Re: BleaK]
    #2941994 - 07/29/04 09:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I guess what I am saying is, that life purposes are not always for good.

Also, that all of this makes Mankind wonder why the Most High even decided to Create Earth and Mankind.


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Anonymous

Re: pre-existance [Re: 777]
    #2942016 - 07/29/04 09:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I guess what I am saying is, that life purposes are not always for good.




of course its all for good, you just have to see how so :wink:


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: pre-existance [Re: 777]
    #2942057 - 07/29/04 09:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

777 said:
I guess what I am saying is, that life purposes are not always for good.

Also, that all of this makes Mankind wonder why the Most High even decided to Create Earth and Mankind.




i wonder why my parents created me.
nothing beyond that tho.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offline777
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Re: pre-existance [Re: ]
    #2942151 - 07/29/04 10:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If you believe that the ultimate outcome of the Human species will be good in the 'end' (which I do believe), then yes I agree that all purposes in THAT regard could be looked at as being for the good, I can definitely appreciate your take on that. I think I was going more towards the actual acts of evil, not the ultimate outcome of it all, which will be for the good.


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