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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Presidentials on drugs
    #2928515 - 07/26/04 02:12 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm voting for Nader. His stand on drugs is clear.

Quote:

An End to the War on Drugs ? Responsible & Rehabilitation Focused Drug Policy
The drug war has failed ? we spend nearly $50 billion annually on the drug war and problems related to drug abuse continue to worsen. We need to acknowledge that drug abuse is a health problem with social and economic consequences. Therefore, the solutions are ? public health, social services and economic development and tender supportive time with addicts in our depersonalized society. Law enforcement should be at the edges of drug control not at the center. It is time to bring some illegal drugs within the law by regulating, taxing and controlling them . Ending the drug war will dramatically reduce street crime, violence and homicides related to underground drug dealing.

http://www.votenader.org/issues/index.php?cid=21







What is your canidates stand?


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: mabus]
    #2928553 - 07/26/04 02:24 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have always had a soft spot for Nader. He has some ideas that I like and some that I don't. I wish one of the major parties would pick up on some of his points and gleen the best from his platform.

He has a 12 point process to cut down on corporate crime:
http://www.votenader.org/issues/index.php?cid=31

4) Democratize Corporate Governance: Shareholders should be granted the right to democratically nominate and elect the corporate board of directors by opening up proxy access to minority shareholders and introducing cumulative voting and competitive elections. Shareholders should be given the power to approve all major business decisions, including top executive compensation. Shareholders should be treated as the owners of the corporation ? since, in fact, that is what they are.

I think the man has some interesting and fresh ideas. I think he would be a wonderful person to be appointed to either a Republican or Democratic administration in an effort to combat corporate malfeasance.

The fresh thing about him is that he is his own man. He will never be bought off by special interests. He is above reproach in that respect, and I admire that.

I won't vote for him but I respect him.


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: mabus]
    #2928594 - 07/26/04 02:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Michael Badnarik of the Libertarian Party(see my signature) shares views on the War on Drugs with Ralph Nader. He, however, would not grow the size of government as Ralph would(Ralph is more of a socialist than even Kerry...), but would instead work tirelessly to shrink it back to it's constitutional limits. Feel free to ask if you have any questions about Micahel.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: mabus]
    #2928612 - 07/26/04 02:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The time to vote for the person closest to your ideas was during the primaries. Mabus--you should have concentrated on Kucinich (also against the WOD) during the primaries. Politics is largely about compromise, in the end, votes come down to yes/no. Now its time to vote 'no' on bush which is only done by voting 'yes' on Kerry.


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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2928615 - 07/26/04 02:43 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Is Michael Badnarik of the Libertarian Party a fellow graduate of Harvard?


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: mabus]
    #2928640 - 07/26/04 02:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Nope, what's your point?


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
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Well put: [Re: mabus]
    #2928644 - 07/26/04 02:51 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

[From Kucinich.us FAQ]
Why aren't you running as a Green Party candidate? Will the Greens support you?

While I support much of the Green Party program, I am a Democrat. I am in the party to which millions of working people, minorities, environmentalists, and people who want a just America owe their loyalty. I want to build a Democratic Party that deserves the loyalty of these groups. I am running not just to promote important ideas, but to use the progressive agenda to defeat George Bush for President in November 2004. Many Greens and Nader 2000 voters are supporting my candidacy, and Ralph has praised our campaign. We are gaining support from new voters, disgruntled voters, and other "3rd-party" voters. Although I'm a Democrat, I firmly support the rights of parties other than the Democrats and Republicans to freely organize, have ballot access, and take part in debates. I support Instant Runoff Voting and other election reforms that will open up our democracy to other parties and groups. I welcome the support of Greens, while respecting their right to protect their party's interests and integrity. Still, I think it's critical we defeat Bush and his right-wing agenda in 2004, and the Democratic Party is the vehicle for that.


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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Re: Well put: [Re: Tao]
    #2928683 - 07/26/04 03:06 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Defeat Bush. Is that the bold new message I'm to waste my time and vote on. The hype about "Anyone But Bush" slogan is just that, a slogan. Reality is I have to get in my elec. solar car and fight gaseous traffic exhausts,police state road blocks searching for "terrorists... and my pot", pay money to find a place to park, and then fight the election lines. I'm voting for the guy who stands for what I do, NADER.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Well put: [Re: mabus]
    #2928698 - 07/26/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:
Kerry and Bush are MUCH too similar on the policy issues that matter to even try to peddle the 'lesser of two evils' nonsense.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Re: Well put: [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2928744 - 07/26/04 03:24 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

So true Ancalagon, Its really a race between Nader and the Libertarian Party. I'm sure there will be a big surprise.


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Well put: [Re: mabus]
    #2928944 - 07/26/04 04:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kerry and Bush are MUCH too similar on the policy issues that matter to even try to peddle the 'lesser of two evils' nonsense.




saying that a lot of times doesn't make it true.

stem cell research
not starting wars and nation-building
working with the UN rather than undermining it
health care
enforcing environmental standards
not increasing spending while cutting tax
not extending the patriot act


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,762
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Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: mabus]
    #2928961 - 07/26/04 04:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You're so right Mabus. Unfortunately some states can not afford to vote for Nader. Swing states can not afford to vote for Nader.

I think Nader people need to come at the voters differently. Nader should only campain in states that traditionally vote Democrat.

What do you say Mabus? Let's make a list of states who can safely vote Nader in 2004.





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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: Learyfan]
    #2929098 - 07/26/04 05:10 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineTwirling
Barred Spiral
Male

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 2,468
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: mabus]
    #2929172 - 07/26/04 05:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I really like Nader & Kucinich, but to be honest, I really don't see how Nader can win. To be honest, I feel very defeated about politics, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be apathtic about it either. That always guarentees a defeat.


Come November, I'm almost certainly going to vote Kerry. I'd love to vote Nader, but I just don't see it as realisitc.


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: Tao]
    #2929174 - 07/26/04 05:28 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TaoTeChing said:
MA, NY, CA, IL, VT, R.I., CT, MD

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/politics/2004_ELECTIONGUIDE_GRAPHIC/



I've asked this before but I'll ask it again. What if George does win, and in 2008 Jeb Bush is the Republican Nominee? Will you try to push the same bullshit on those who desire to vote for a candidate who they truly respect as opposed to the lesser of two evils? 'JUST THIS ONE LAST ELECTION CYCLE VOTE DEMOCRAT...NEXT TIME YOU CAN VOTE FOR WHO YOU WANT...NEXT TIME...' Vote for the lesser of two evils and even if your candidate wins you'll end up with evil. Vote for who YOU want! The lesser of two evils argument is a disgrace to all this country was supposed to stand for.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 6 months, 1 day
Re: Well put: [Re: Tao]
    #2929185 - 07/26/04 05:30 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

stem cell research: not the governments business and it will happen regardless of US policy; see multi-national corporations. We just won't financially profit from it. Is that your concern?

Wars and nation building: Kerry voted yes in both cases and was privy to all relevant info (i.e. for him, what the polls said). I have no problem with either our action in Iraq or Afghanistan. Could things have been done better? Of course, as always with hindsight. Could we reasonably have expected better? I think it has been fabulously successful.

Work with the UN: Human Rights Commitee, Disarmament Commitee, Oil for Food Scandal. You must be insane to think this is anything but an utterly corrupt group. It's a good thing that it doesn't have the nerve to ever act decisively (see Iraq 1)

Health care: Why should I pay for your health insurance or care or whatever? I, I mean, who works 40 to 50 hrs a week at a job I spent 20+ years to get good at so I could better my and my family's situation while you did......what????? Fuck up????? Just suck and breed????? If the government pays that means I pay. L'etat c'est moi.

Enforce environmental standards: Where exactly does Kerry stand on wind farms off the Massachusetts coast? We know where his owner stands on them.

Not increasing spending......: Bush, not having to cave in to special interests, i.e. old fucks on the dole, is far more likely to decrease spending than the most Liberal Senator. Or do you think cutting taxes is a bad thing? Having a deficit makes legislators cut the budget unless they can raise taxes. I myself would rather have a deficit than higher taxes.

The Patriot Act has impacted my life in no fashion. And oh by the way Kerry voted for it


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,762
Loc: High pride!
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Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2929269 - 07/26/04 05:49 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Quote:

TaoTeChing said:
MA, NY, CA, IL, VT, R.I., CT, MD

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/politics/2004_ELECTIONGUIDE_GRAPHIC/



I've asked this before but I'll ask it again. What if George does win, and in 2008 Jeb Bush is the Republican Nominee? Will you try to push the same bullshit on those who desire to vote for a candidate who they truly respect as opposed to the lesser of two evils? 'JUST THIS ONE LAST ELECTION CYCLE VOTE DEMOCRAT...NEXT TIME YOU CAN VOTE FOR WHO YOU WANT...NEXT TIME...' Vote for the lesser of two evils and even if your candidate wins you'll end up with evil. Vote for who YOU want! The lesser of two evils argument is a disgrace to all this country was supposed to stand for.




You're SO right Ancalagon.

From the first day Nader began being blamed for Bush being elected i've thought about this. Will we EVER be able to vote 3rd party again? I don't think any Republican will ever be a good choice. So am I doomed to vote Democrat for the rest of my life???




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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2929345 - 07/26/04 06:22 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

again, you vote for who you want in the primaries, if enough people don't agree with you, then your endeavors are fruitless if you keep insisting--until the next election cycle, when you campaign again during the primaries for which candidate best represents you. Kerry was a compromise between Lieberman and Kucinich. well im not continuing this discussion any further, it sounds like you are too caught up in ideals instead of understanding what politics is really about, accepting setbacks and compromises and adapting.

www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com

Sidenote: I can understand voting for badnarik instead of bush a lot more than i can understand voting for nader instead of kerry.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2929691 - 07/26/04 08:22 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:

I've asked this before but I'll ask it again. What if George does win, and in 2008 Jeb Bush is the Republican Nominee? Will you try to push the same bullshit on those who desire to vote for a candidate who they truly respect as opposed to the lesser of two evils? 'JUST THIS ONE LAST ELECTION CYCLE VOTE DEMOCRAT...NEXT TIME YOU CAN VOTE FOR WHO YOU WANT...NEXT TIME...' Vote for the lesser of two evils and even if your candidate wins you'll end up with evil. Vote for who YOU want! The lesser of two evils argument is a disgrace to all this country was supposed to stand for.




hahahahaha. you really crack me up, dude. I mean, i agree with what you're saying and all, but do you really think that the 300 million brainwashed morons in this country are ever going to see shit that way? Your movement's unpopularity is a testament to its own incorrect assumptions about human nature.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Presidentials on drugs [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2929759 - 07/26/04 08:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Your movement's unpopularity is a testament to its own incorrect assumptions about human nature.




I would say it's lack of popularity(not UNpopularity...where is a poll showing people disagree with the libertarian message) is more due to its absence of media coverage than anything else. That is irrelevant to this thread however. Feel free to bump the thread of yours in which this was discussed(or not discussed) from a while ago.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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