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OfflineStrangeDays
Bob
Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 160
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Science & thoughts
    #2927774 - 07/26/04 03:28 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Obviously each of us have these unique things called "thoughts" but how do they fit into reality ?
What is their place in science ? They obviously
exist, no one can deny having thoughts (unless they
practice alot!).

Question for the scientists and the skeptics;

Does a thought (same question for memories too) hold form in physical reality ?


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OfflineCrestfallen
some kindasomethin'

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 324
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Science & thoughts [Re: StrangeDays]
    #2927792 - 07/26/04 03:45 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I think thoughts and thinking are a necessity for functioning on this level or reality.


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The above statement is completely fictional and composed solely for the purpose of entertainment.


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Invisiblebandaid
clever title

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 340
Re: Science & thoughts [Re: StrangeDays]
    #2927950 - 07/26/04 07:40 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

maybe Redgreenvines can enlighten us :grin:, as he posted before that memory is physical, atleast this is what I understood

"we call it feelings because it comes with physical memory"


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: StrangeDays]
    #2928025 - 07/26/04 09:25 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I know I have thoughts, but do others?  Do you?  Prove it :smirk:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: Science & thoughts [Re: StrangeDays]
    #2928410 - 07/26/04 01:26 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Does a thought hold form in physical reality ?



in a sense, some, yes, but only after time and energy
transform it to the appropriate wavelength(s).
the monitor you are looking at was once a thought. over a period of time and with the input of energy in the forms of effort and matter, we get monitors.
mind begets physical reality


Quote:

(same question for memories too)


no idea.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,978
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: StrangeDays]
    #2928539 - 07/26/04 02:19 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Does The Shroomery exist as a part of physical reality?

What about the software on your computer? Does it have a physical existence? If not, does that mean it doesn't exist at all? (obviously it does).

Human thoughts may just be the software we have loaded into our CPU's...which we like to call a brain :wink:


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Offline69psyko69
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Registered: 07/26/04
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: Viaggio]
    #2928595 - 07/26/04 02:37 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I can prove I have thoughts. I'm sharing them with you right now. That is one of the things the human race does extremely well, which is communicate our thoughts, feelings and new ideas.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: 69psyko69]
    #2928613 - 07/26/04 02:42 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I think he was alluding to the concept of solipsism, in which case no...there is no way that you (or any of us) could prove that we "have thoughts" (ie: exist) to him.

Solipsism seems rather lonely, to me :smirk:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: StrangeDays]
    #2928638 - 07/26/04 02:50 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

sure, there are physiological functions activated, while you think, which can be mapped within your brain.
Vice versa, you can put a tiny electrode into someones brain, which provokes thoughts.

It's about patterns.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #2928653 - 07/26/04 02:54 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

sure, there are physiological functions activated, while you think, which can be mapped within your brain.
Vice versa, you can put a tiny electrode into someones brain, which provokes thoughts.


Like electrons flowing through the pathways laid out on a silicon chip :wink:


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OfflinePed
Interested In Your Brain
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: trendal]
    #2928663 - 07/26/04 03:00 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

So thoughts and software exist in some fashion, but not in the way that we typically relate to them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: Ped]
    #2928688 - 07/26/04 03:07 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Yes, exactly!

"Software" exists, on a physical level, as groupings of electrical charges and magnetic fields (as well as pits on an optical disk). Looking at software in this light does not carry a whole lot of information, though, because software is only one part of the picture: you also need to look at the hardware that the software is meant to run on. Once you have the whole picture, you can understand what the software will do when "run" on the hardware (perhaps what it is "meant" to do...).

You could look at human thought, emotion, and will as simply a set of electrical impulses and chemical responses...but it won't tell you much about what human "software" does unless you look at the hardware it runs on (the brain). At present time, unfortunately, we have very little understanding of either piece of the picture.

Also: while human consciousness may be simply a software program running on a brain....don't forget that computers always have a user to input instructions :wink:


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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: trendal]
    #2928707 - 07/26/04 03:12 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Heheheh, I'm not a complete solipsist. I was just teasing. I guess it's safe to say that existence happens on different planes. We have the conventional physical plane, and...the others (where dreams, thoughts and the like exist). Maybe?

Edit: What tendal said.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: Viaggio]
    #2928823 - 07/26/04 03:58 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Yes, nobody knows if physiology is the onliest thing, with what the emerging brain patterns correlate.
I also think the 'space' to witch they point, is something beyond pure physics and matter. Also it's strongly connected.

But...spirit over matter, or just the opposite ?

Some brain researcher (forgotten his name) said something like: The spirit is like a musician, who plays the brain like an instrument.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: StrangeDays]
    #2929228 - 07/26/04 05:38 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

question for all:

so what?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2929366 - 07/26/04 06:35 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

...so bring together the material and the spiritual realm ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #2929372 - 07/26/04 06:37 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

im in favour of that, should we write our municipal governments and try to get a pill blast?


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Science & thoughts [Re: Positronius]
    #2929379 - 07/26/04 06:41 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

sure, if it's to benefits for all ? :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinejarofgreen
hyphae creator
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 262
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Science & thoughts [Re: StrangeDays]
    #2934035 - 07/27/04 09:38 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Everyone here should pick up a copy of "The Age of Spiritual Machines" by Ray Kurzweil. It talks alot about this kind of stuff, and he makes predictions for how computers and minds are going to integrate in the next centurey.


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OfflineIamHungry
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Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 220
Last seen: 2 years, 20 days
Re: Science & thoughts [Re: StrangeDays]
    #2935732 - 07/28/04 10:52 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

i read an article that said the higher a person's IQ, the more "gray matter" was in their brain. i dont know if this is anything tangible like you asked but it reminded me of it. here it is, check it out: http://channels.netscape.com/ns/atplay/package.jsp?name=fte/youriq/youriq

i wonder if that gray matter is a byproduct of thinking.


Edited by IamHungry (07/28/04 10:55 AM)


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