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 MerlinBurb
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Registered: 07/20/04
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 The Ultimate Expirement 
#2925293 - 07/25/04 02:49 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Though it is not possible, and will never be possible.
Thats the only downside, lol.
But I think that the ultimate expirement would be this:
Have you ever seen those movies where people live in a white abyss? Well what i think what would be cool is if you were able to raise a person in such a place. What would he/she think of? could it think? There is nothing to reflect on besides itself. It has no means of comunication (often ppl think in language-english/spanish, etc). What if you just gave it a stack of paper and some pens? That would be the ultimate expirement in my opinion.
There is just a few problems with this however. How would it live, it has to be fed. That is an outside influence. So is the pen and paper, but how else would you know what it is thinking? Also, I think that the person's though would be different, depending on it's parents. Even if you made it in a lab or soemthing, you still have to put in every traits, which would change there person's thoughts.
Make it happen.
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Wysefool
I AM SKELETON JELLY
 
Registered: 12/26/02
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 Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2925305 - 07/25/04 02:56 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I bet the person would scribble
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MAGnum
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2925307 - 07/25/04 02:58 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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The poor creature who suffers having to be raised in complete lack of the world would be an insain human being. I don't think this person would be smart since they were never taught any logic at all.
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wrong
Stranger
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MAGnum]
#2925317 - 07/25/04 03:04 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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they would likely be damn near retarded
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MerlinBurb
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: wrong]
#2925333 - 07/25/04 03:16 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, i kind of agree with some philosophers that knowledge is based on expirience. In that case, all they have to reflect on is the expirience of thier self. Hand paintings?
What if you gave them a set of colored pictures? Otherwise they would be constricted to white (paper), black(pen), and whatever color they can see on their own body.
DO you think it could think up simple mathmatics? Obviously it would not be represented by the symbols of 1, 2, 3, etc, but do you think that they could get the concept?
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exclusive58
illegal alien
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2925351 - 07/25/04 04:04 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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what'd i'd like to know is, would that person develop a notion of any form of God, without anyone mentioning anything about God. My guess is NO.
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MerlinBurb
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: exclusive58]
#2925357 - 07/25/04 04:24 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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My guess is yes. There was a point in history, during like caveman time, in different parts of the world, right around the same time, where all these different species of "humans-to-be" thought up the possibility of a higher being. I think by now it is in our blood (dont know how else to put it), you cant get around it, even if you are brought up in a white abyss. Our minds are just beyond that stage.
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 bandaid
clever title
Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 340
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2925360 - 07/25/04 04:30 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I see this experiment really happening, just adopt a baby and put it in a barrel at the bottom of the sea 
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daba
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2925367 - 07/25/04 04:37 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nothing good would come of it. As humans we are naturally social creatures. Yes, if you did this experiment a multitude of times, maybe you would achieve something more than just a feral child (actually do a google search for "feral children," that is the closest to this experiment as you're going to get in reality), and I believe that those extremely rare cases are the ones you may want to pursue. Klinks in nature, that is... naturally unsocial children raised in unsocial, isolated environments.
[What in the world do THEY think? It's almost frightening to let your imagination off its leash.]
Quote:
MAGnum said:
The poor creature who suffers having to be raised in complete lack of the world would be an insain human being. I don't think this person would be smart since they were never taught any logic at all.
Precisely. The human brain would not be used to its full potential. After a certain age, some things could never be taught. Indeed, the person wouldn't "be smart." We are but a manipulation of our experiences, after all.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2925404 - 07/25/04 05:18 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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There was an incident in Germany twohundred years ago, where a very strange child was found. He could not speak and could not walk 'right'. He behaved like a 3 Year old, but he was about 17. He was raised in high deprivationn, total silence, no sunlight and no human contact (I think the theories are, that he was some hidden child of a king, or something), fed by bread and water, what he found, as he waked up, beded and chained to straw, sometimes new clothes or cutted hair or nails, onliest toy, a wooden horse with wheels.
Nevertheless he was intelligent and learned. He noticed, that there was something wrong and wanted to know his mother. He was killed by an unknown, five years later. A very sad story. He merely could speak and made his own 'code' of language. He remembered everything ever ! And he could distinguish colours in almost darkness !
Nothing was reported that he built a concept of something like god...
His name was 'Kaspar Hauser'.
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LoneDeranger
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: BlueCoyote]
#2925464 - 07/25/04 06:01 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have a better idea. Before the pen and paper, give some psychedelics  What do you think would happen?! Great idea btw.
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Mescalito is my homeboy...
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browndustin
dustybuddy
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: LoneDeranger]
#2926016 - 07/25/04 01:19 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LoneDeranger said:
I have a better idea. Before the pen and paper, give some psychedelics What do you think would happen?! Great idea btw.
That'd certainly be cool.
And I do concur, great experiment. Yet I can't help but think that if this was done to someone, they're being a little gypped. Don't you? 
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2Experimental
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: browndustin]
#2927487 - 07/25/04 11:15 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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without an ego to disect, psychedelics are useless... and a kid raised like that has no ego, only consciousness
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TheDarkSideof_Paco
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2927654 - 07/26/04 12:26 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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would he dream anything?
or in his dreams would he wander aroundt he white abyss?
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"In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us."
Thich Nhat Hanh
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trendal
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: Wysefool]
#2928569 - 07/26/04 12:27 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlackZombie said:
I bet the person would scribble
"He picked up from the table a piece of paper and the stub of a pencil. He held one in one hand and the other in the other, and experimented with the different ways of bringing them together. He tried holding the pencil under the paper, then over the papter, then next to the paper. He tried wrapping the paper around the pencil, he tried rubbing the stubby end of the pencil against the paper and then he tried rubbing the sharp end of the pencil against the paper. It made a mark, and he was delighted with the discovery, as he was every day. He picked up another piece of paper from the table. This had a crossword on it. He studied it briefly and filled in a couple of clues before losing itnerest."
-- Douglas Adams, "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe"
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2928717 - 07/26/04 01:14 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nah, come on guys  That's like torture for scientific reasons.
Google 'Kaspar Hauser'. Then you will get some concept.
He loved dreams.
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TheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2928886 - 07/26/04 02:13 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I imagine that the person would end up pretty close to the way Hellen Keller was before she was taught anything. Basically the person would act purly on instinct, like any other animal. A pen and paper probably wouldn't have any appeal at all seeing as that person would have no idea what it was. Drugs would probably feel like poisoning or dying, (fight or flight).
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Positronius
playboy
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: TheHateCamel]
#2929359 - 07/26/04 04:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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the ultimate warrior.
The ultimate experiment would be to shoot the ultimate warrior into outer-space and monitor his brainwaves.
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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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LoneDeranger
Deranger
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Quote:
2Experimental said:
without an ego to disect, psychedelics are useless... and a kid raised like that has no ego, only consciousness
You can still trip without an ego i believe (such as a full blown ego loss right?). What about the McKennas idea (not to try to give it credibility), that early very primitive humans used mushrooms and it taught language? I'm exhausted right now, and not thinking this thoroughly, but there's what i have to say now  Time to go toke a bowl.
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Mescalito is my homeboy...
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cybrbeast
Up, then down, then...
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2941883 - 07/29/04 06:58 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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is going on right now
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psikooz
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: cybrbeast]
#2942947 - 07/30/04 12:51 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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very true my friend. 
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shamanality
newbie
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2945790 - 07/30/04 05:03 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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hmmm, terrance never said the mushroom taught language, rather that the process of developing language and representation could/would have been accelerated by the use of psychedelic substances.
"(not to give it credability)"- you dont think it is credible?
have you actually read his books, or just happened upon this part of his theory?
sorry, this may be a bit off topic.
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exclusive58
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2949500 - 07/31/04 04:40 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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actually an experiment kinda like that has already been done, about 300 years ago or something.
This european lord, a very rich guy, started wondering what is the language that humans naturally develop.
So he took three newborn babies, and payed three nurses to take care of them, but they weren't allowed to talk to them. They were deprived of sociality.
It turned out that the babies died, at the age of no more than 3 years old.
So humans are naturally social animals, that depend on communicaton.
Like Daba said, "After a certain age, some things could never be taught. Indeed, the person wouldn't "be smart". We are but a manipulation of our experiences, after all. "
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MerlinBurb
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: exclusive58]
#2949571 - 07/31/04 05:07 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well i would be interested to look into that story more, because just by what you have said, I really doubt that the children died from not having a language, seems very unlikely. 300 years ago, there wasnt much medicine for diseases, etc. There is probrobly another cause to their deaths.
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tekramrepus
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
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Re: The Ultimate Expirement [Re: MerlinBurb]
#2949623 - 07/31/04 06:34 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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why do people assume thinks like social responsibility, language, and mathametic skills are hand in hand with intelligence?
Intelilgence is NOT knowledge....nor memory. Intelligence is the ability to incorporate knowledge into action, to achieve desired results.
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