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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Blair admits mass graves claim untrue
    #2922605 - 07/24/04 02:36 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

From 400,000 to 5000. Sounds like we got ourselves another WMD..

PM admits graves claim 'untrue'

Peter Beaumont, foreign affairs editor
Sunday July 18, 2004
The Observer

Downing Street has admitted to The Observer that repeated claims by Tony Blair that '400,000 bodies had been found in Iraqi mass graves' is untrue, and only about 5,000 corpses have so far been uncovered.
The claims by Blair in November and December of last year, were given widespread credence, quoted by MPs and widely published, including in the introduction to a US government pamphlet on Iraq's mass graves.

In that publication - Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves produced by USAID, the US government aid distribution agency, Blair is quoted from 20 November last year: 'We've already discovered, just so far, the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves.'

On 14 December Blair repeated the claim in a statement issued by Downing Street in response to the arrest of Saddam Hussein and posted on the Labour party website that: 'The remains of 400,000 human beings [have] already [been] found in mass graves.'

The admission that the figure has been hugely inflated follows a week in which Blair accepted responsibility for charges in the Butler report over the way in which Downing Street pushed intelligence reports 'to the outer limits' in the case for the threat posed by Iraq.

Downing Street's admission comes amid growing questions over precisely how many perished under Saddam's three decades of terror, and the location of the bodies of the dead.

The Baathist regime was responsible for massive human rights abuses and murder on a large scale - not least in well-documented campaigns including the gassing of Halabja, the al-Anfal campaign against Kurdish villages and the brutal repression of the Shia uprising - but serious questions are now emerging about the scale of Saddam Hussein's murders.

It comes amid inflation from an estimate by Human Rights Watch in May 2003 of 290,000 'missing' to the latest claims by the Iraqi Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi, that one million are missing.

At the heart of the questions are the numbers so far identified in Iraq's graves. Of 270 suspected grave sites identified in the last year, 55 have now been examined, revealing, according to the best estimates that The Observer has been able to obtain, around 5,000 bodies. Forensic examination of grave sites has been hampered by lack of security in Iraq, amid widespread complaints by human rights organisations that until recently the graves have not been secured and protected.

While some sites have contained hundreds of bodies - including a series around the town of Hilla and another near the Saudi border - others have contained no more than a dozen.

And while few have any doubts that Saddam's regime was responsible for serious crimes against humanity, the exact scale of those crimes has become increasingly politicised in both Washington and London as it has become clearer that the case against Iraq for retention of weapons of mass destruction has faded.

The USAID website, which quotes Blair's 400,000 assertion, states: 'If these numbers prove accurate, they represent a crime against humanity surpassed only by the Rwandan genocide of 1994, Pol Pot's Cambodian killing fields in the 1970s, and the Nazi Holocaust of World War II.'

It is an issue that Human Rights Watch was acutely aware of when it compiled its own pre-invasion research - admitting that it had to reduce estimates for the al-Anfal campaign produced by Kurds by over a third, as they believed the numbers they had been given were inflated.

Hania Mufti, one of the researchers that produced that estimate, said: 'Our estimates were based on estimates. The eventual figure was based in part on circumstantial information gathered over the years.'

A further difficulty, according to Inforce, a group of British forensic experts in mass grave sites based at Bournemouth University who visited Iraq last year, was in the constant over-estimation of site sizes by Iraqis they met. 'Witnesses were often likely to have unrealistic ideas of the numbers of people in grave areas that they knew about,' said Jonathan Forrest.

'Local people would tell us of 10,000s of people buried at single grave sites and when we would get there they would be in multiple hundreds.'

A Downing Street spokesman said: 'While experts may disagree on the exact figures, human rights groups, governments and politicians across the world have no doubt that Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of his own people and their remains are buried in sites throughout Iraq.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1263830,00.html


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Blair admits mass graves claim untrue [Re: Xlea321]
    #2922627 - 07/24/04 02:46 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

When's Her Majesty going to step in and end all these shennanigans? I think it's time for Lizzy to have some heads roll...just like the gold old days.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineJPZ
lost in mexico
Registered: 06/28/04
Posts: 193
Loc: Monterrey
Last seen: 12 years, 21 days
Re: Blair admits mass graves claim untrue [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2922664 - 07/24/04 03:01 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
When's Her Majesty going to step in and end all these shennanigans? I think it's time for Lizzy to have some heads roll...just like the gold old days.





hehe, CHOP! b

:grin:


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I do declare, I can float in the air.

"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up."


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 30,133
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Re: Blair admits mass graves claim untrue [Re: Xlea321]
    #2922996 - 07/24/04 07:42 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

The case for war gets weaker and weaker and weaker.................







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Offlinewrong
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Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 1,219
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Blair admits mass graves claim untrue [Re: Xlea321]
    #2924613 - 07/24/04 10:57 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

"If these numbers prove accurate, they represent a crime against humanity surpassed only by the Rwandan genocide of 1994, Pol Pot's Cambodian killing fields in the 1970s, and the Nazi Holocaust of World War II"
usaid must have an interesting idea of what constitutes a "crime against humanity"


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OfflineRedo
CTA

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Blair admits mass graves claim untrue [Re: Learyfan]
    #2924622 - 07/24/04 11:02 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
The case for war gets weaker and weaker and weaker.................





As you post another silly political image that only makes your statements humorous at best.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 30,133
Loc: High pride!
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Re: Blair admits mass graves claim untrue [Re: Redo]
    #2925574 - 07/25/04 11:17 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Your desperate attempt to find some kind of justification for this war is what I find humorous.






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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 10 days, 23 hours
Re: Blair admits mass graves claim untrue [Re: wrong]
    #2927973 - 07/26/04 07:57 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

You do realise the whole point of the article is that these numbers didnt prove accurate arent you?


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