Home | Community | Message Board


Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop: Scales

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlineevilchipmunk
All your nutsare belong tome.

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 268
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Atheism.
    #2916769 - 07/22/04 06:04 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I've noticed a general attitude of superiority among atheists (namely one of my close relatives).  From my experience, many of them seem to think that those who believe in god are ignorant and close-minded on the basis that there is no proof of god's existence.  What I don't understand is, how in the hell can they overlook the fact that there is also no proof of god's non-existence?  If they can't accept the possibility that they could be wrong, doesn't that make them just as close-minded (if not more so, just because of that pretentious attitude) as those that adhere faithfully to different beliefs?  I just don't get atheists at all.  I've been struggling to get along with one in particular that absolutely refuses to listen to what I have to say.  It has been very, very frustrating.  I would just let it go, and leave beliefs out of it, but it really grates on my nerves every time he decides to slander other religions (namely Christianity).  I'm not a Christian myself, but it still pisses me off to no end.

Maybe I should have put this in the support group board, but I figured it would fit better here..  If anyone has any advice or thoughts, I'd be glad to hear them.  :heart:


--------------------
George Dubya Bush's Resume.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEkstaza
stranger thanmost
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4,317
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 2 months, 13 days
Re: Atheism. [Re: evilchipmunk]
    #2916787 - 07/22/04 06:09 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I'm agnostic for the very fact that it is impossible to prove that something doesn't exist. We can prove that things exist all day long but there is no way of proving without a shadow of a doubt that something doesn't exist. Tell the snooty atheists that.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Atheism. [Re: evilchipmunk]
    #2916799 - 07/22/04 06:12 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I agree. Agnosticism is a respectable position, but atheism does seem somewhat arrogant.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineevilchipmunk
All your nutsare belong tome.

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 268
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2916805 - 07/22/04 06:13 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Exactly, Ekstaza .. but it's hard to tell them that in a way they'll actually listen to me.  :sad:


--------------------
George Dubya Bush's Resume.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Atheism. [Re: evilchipmunk]
    #2916824 - 07/22/04 06:18 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Don't frustrate yourself by trying to convince them of anything.
They will only dig in deeper.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: evilchipmunk]
    #2916832 - 07/22/04 06:19 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I'm agnostic but i in a way feel sorry for members of organized religion because i think it is a farce and ludacris to believe in it. I'm sure some religious people might think i am acting superior but i mean well.

This is because i am also a "If you works for you and doesn't interfere with anyone else it cannot be bad." Even sometimes i wish i could be Christian because i find angel, demons, the war in heaven, and the book of Revelations quite interesting. I imagine it would be neat to believe in it all.

The only problem i have is that on many occasion organized religion does interfere with people who don't want it too.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineevilchipmunk
All your nutsare belong tome.

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 268
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: Jellric]
    #2916851 - 07/22/04 06:26 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

The problem is it's equally frustrating to turn a cold shoulder while said relative slams someone else's beliefs in the most disrespectful way possible. :/


--------------------
George Dubya Bush's Resume.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Atheism. [Re: evilchipmunk]
    #2916856 - 07/22/04 06:28 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

The duck-billed platypus is proof that there is no God. How could a supreme being allow such a thing to exist?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineevilchipmunk
All your nutsare belong tome.

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 268
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2916866 - 07/22/04 06:31 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

That could just be god's sense of humor. ;P


--------------------
George Dubya Bush's Resume.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedaba
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: evilchipmunk]
    #2916880 - 07/22/04 06:39 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

evilchipmunk:

Where did you first hear of a "God"? Were you told or did you think of it yourself?

"Gods" were first created to explain the inexplicable. Why was there lightning from the sky? The gods must be angry. My standpoint on the whole thing is much like Occom's Spoon. Logic will lead you to the right answer.

Nonetheless, religion is a means of control. Modern day religions are simply evolved forms of the primitive theist philosophy I just stated. Now that lighting and other mysteries have since been revealed by science, humans face only one more quotidian obstacle: death. I needn't explain more than that; you may speculate the possibilities regarding control.

Hence, one must consider the rules of a specific religion (be it a "good Samaritan" ordeal) to be rewards in itself, nothing more. Sure, many religions say to live a certain lifestyle to be guarenteed some beneficial afterlife, but again there is no proof of such. One abides by the certain religion because for the moment, one feels good that his/her actions brings him/herself one step closer to salvation, although s/he has no assurance if an afterlife other than another human being trained to tell her otherwise.

I think you know where I stand.


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: evilchipmunk]
    #2916984 - 07/22/04 07:14 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I'm an atheist. I think it is not only foolish to believe in god but counterproductive and conducive to extreme mayhem. I think that the concept of a supreme being(s) is one of the worst ideas ever invented. I will also argue with those who do believe in god. In the face of logic, their position is totally unsupportable. It is not unusual for someone to consider those who have defeated them in a debate as arrogant. As an atheist, that person has bucked the tide of American society for quite some time and has thus honed his arguments in a fairly hostile crucible. The god-believer, on the other hand has had his arguments handed to him with very little challenge. The atheist has heard all of your points ad nauseum, he is immersed in them everyday, and you probably can't add anything, because there really is no logical support for believing in a supreme being.

I understand the agnostic point that they just don't know, but that kind of thing can be applied to alot of things and is also of no use. They can't touch electricity or prove it exists or doesn't, but they can still turn on a light switch and believe that the light will come on. If it doesn't they will check the bulb, circuit breaker, the neighbors' houses. For all their philosophy knows it could be magic.

As far as atheists being arrogant, part of that is from bucking the tide, part is that they have thought more about these things than most god-believers and part is that they are generally smarter people. Atheism is correlated strongly with level of education.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2917063 - 07/22/04 07:43 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

In the face of logic, their position is totally unsupportable. It is not unusual for someone to consider those who have defeated them in a debate as arrogant.




:thumbup:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineevilchipmunk
All your nutsare belong tome.

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 268
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: daba]
    #2917089 - 07/22/04 07:54 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I know where you're coming from, daba.  Although I do consider myself agnostic, that doesn't necessarily go to say that I consider those of other beliefs to be close-minded or ignorant.  That includes Atheists, to a point.

But when an Atheist completely disregards other possibilities, even the ones that seem slim, that makes them seem a bit arrogant, at least to me.  And even more so when they show blatant disrespect to an entire religion simply on the basis that their beliefs aren't based completely on solid facts.  Sure, many religions are used to control people, and in some cases are horribly corrupted.  But not all people who are Christian, or what have you, are brainwashed sheep following out of fear and ignorance.

Lightening may not be a sign that 'god' is angry.  Then again, who are we to say it's not?  That may sound ridiculous, but think about it for a minute.  If god does happen to exist, who's to say we could really understand the possibilities or motives of 'his' actions?  Who's to say 'he' isn't controlling the course of all events, including lightning?  It's really impossible to say for sure.

On another scale, death is not the only obstacle left, by far.  Life, in my opinion, is a far bigger obstacle. 

For instance, consider the possibility that we were not 'created' instantly as humans, and instead evolved from more primitive life forms.  Perhaps, when earth was young, a bunch of molecules in a puddle of primordial ooze chanced to form into a very basic living cell.  Many would say that the chance of this happening would be miraculous, maybe even impossible.  Even more miraculous than the cell's appearance, though, is the fact that it somehow initially had the instinct to absorb energy, to split and reproduce, and continue to stay alive.  Where did this 'instinct' come from?  What's life's driving force?  We have no real proof one way or another.  As you said, all we can do is speculate.

I guess my point is, no matter what someone's beliefs are, a dose of agnosticism probably isn't a bad idea for anyone.  Meaning, it's completely OK to believe what you want- that's part of having a free mind.  But people need to remember that it is a BELEIF based on evidence, not fact, and accept that unless solid 'proof' is uncovered, said belief is only just that, and may be completely wrong.

I hope that makes sense.  :hippie:


--------------------
George Dubya Bush's Resume.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Re: Atheism. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2917167 - 07/22/04 08:15 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

How does an athiest believe the universe began?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #2917183 - 07/22/04 08:21 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Big bang. Pretty well established by now. What started that however is still to be discovered. We are ignorant of that. Funny that ignorance is the most frequent rationale for a belief in god. "We don't know so there must be some mysterious guiding being" For the Romans it was Zeus making lightning. There are endless examples


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePaintedDeath
The Bestest
Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 243
Loc: somewhere in Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #2917191 - 07/22/04 08:24 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

I myself am an Atheist.

i used to be really really REALLY Anti-Christian and Religion, however, i have grown a bit

i now feel, well i really dont give a damn. just live and let live. you say Atheists piss you off cause they make you feel that they think they are superior and close minded, well how do you think i feel whenever i run into a fervent Christian, that wants to preach to me all day long and tell me i am condemned to burn in hell for all eternity. i feel the same about Christians as you do about Atheists. close minded and holier-than-thou.

I believe that Religion is good for one thing. Morals.

Religion will keep people from becoming blood crazed hounds, because of the fear of hell and punishment. i believe societies should follow a religion to an extent. how far to an extent, i cant answer that. i will however, give an example.

I feel that Gay Marriage should be legal. Should it be fine in the eyes of god? i dont care, let the church stop people from being married on the basis that they are the same gender. thats the churchs decision. HOWEVER, the Government should have NO SAY in the matter, ESPECIALLY if the decision is weigh with the influence of Faith.

in the end live and let live, if somoene is going on and on about how your religion is bullshit, shrug if off and tell them you realy dont care to hear about it. same thing i do when a christian preachs to me =D


--------------------
I wanna cross The Rainbow Bridge, and see my fathers in The Golden Hall. They beckon me, to join their feast. In my dreams, I hear their call.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineevilchipmunk
All your nutsare belong tome.

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 268
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: PaintedDeath]
    #2917224 - 07/22/04 08:34 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Zappaisgod- Yes, there are many downsides to many religions, counter-productivity and mayhem being only some of them. But did it ever cross your mind that belief in god provides some people with a good deal of hope, and strength, and something around which to form their morals? Did you ever stop to think that maybe not all of them were 'handed' their evidence, but found it themselves through experience or perhaps even rational thought? As I said before, not all 'god-believers', as you put it, are mindless followers, even if a good many of them are. There is such a thing as spirituality outside of organized religion. Whether you are right or wrong (something which you can't prove no matter what evidence you think you have), do you think it's right to try and convince these people they shouldn't believe in god? How do you feel when a 'god-believer' tries to force his beliefs on you? Is it any better when you try to force your opinions on them? You may think the world would be better off without the idea of god. But that is YOUR perspective, not everyone else's.

On a side note, the Big Bang also supports many christian theories. How did all that matter and energy appear out of nothing, since it's also been firmly established that energy can't be created or destroyed? Quite a paradox, hmm?

PaintedDeath, I totally feel your frustration. Being agnostic, I get the same treatment from overbearing Christians. But something I've also found from experience is that not all Christians are like that. Some of them are really good, nice people, and you can't just clump together 'good' and 'bad' people by these types of beliefs. Like you said, live and let live. Believe, and let believe.


--------------------
George Dubya Bush's Resume.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePaintedDeath
The Bestest
Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 243
Loc: somewhere in Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: evilchipmunk]
    #2917285 - 07/22/04 09:02 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

evilchipmunk i never once stated all christians were over bearing. I have a good many friends who are religious. i just dont speak to them about it, there is NO REASON for argument over faith, unless you are either a total Atheist prick or a Religious, Fanatical Zealot. I said before that religion is good for one thing, and thats morals, well i have a counter argument to that.

What kinda god would tell you to die?

The Al queda terrorists strap bombs to their chests and kill buildings full of people in the name of god. It is quickly becoming my belief that religion is one of the worst things to happen to man kind. to many wars have been foughten, and to many lives have been lost in the name of god.

I read in TIME magazine today, an article about Thomas Jefferson. it was detailing how before he became president, and just after the revolutionary war, that Islamic pirates were sailing the Atlantic ocean, capturing and enslaving british and american sailors and such. since America was no longer under britian, we didnt have the british navy to protect us anymore. so in an effort to stop this, Thomas Jefferson went to meet with the Sultan of Talini (or whatever the country was called at the time. it was still during the time of the Ottoman empire), anyways he goes and tells this Sultan he would make payments to stop the pirating. now, America had never had any quarrels or problems of the like with the Islams, and asking why they were doing this, the man answer, and i paraphrase, "That the legend of our prophet says that those who do no acknowledge out superiority and control are Infidels and are to be brought to war at all times". he said something of this nature. so all this you hear about how Islam isnt really about all this, well this train of thought has existed in Islam over at LEAST over 200 years. so Religion isnt perfect, and it is quite possible that the world would be a better place without it. :shrug:


--------------------
I wanna cross The Rainbow Bridge, and see my fathers in The Golden Hall. They beckon me, to join their feast. In my dreams, I hear their call.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineevilchipmunk
All your nutsare belong tome.

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 268
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: PaintedDeath]
    #2917359 - 07/22/04 09:27 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

i never once stated all christians were over bearing




I know ya didn't, man.. sorry. I just kinda tacked that on because some people seem to think that all religion is bad. I disagree, though.

In many ways, religion is like a drug. It needs to be used responsibly, not abused. If you use beliefs to help support your morals, or with some other positive motives, more power to you! If you use it to control others, to wage war in the name of god and destroy peace, you're associating the idea of religion with negativity, chaos, and pain. Are drugs bad? Only if they are in the wrong hands. But you can't blame the drugs for being abused. It's the user that needs to take responsibility for and face the consequences of his or her actions.


--------------------
George Dubya Bush's Resume.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePaintedDeath
The Bestest
Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 243
Loc: somewhere in Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Atheism. [Re: evilchipmunk]
    #2917375 - 07/22/04 09:32 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Ah, great point. I agree completely Evilchipmunk. I'm glad that you put it like that. I thank you.


--------------------
I wanna cross The Rainbow Bridge, and see my fathers in The Golden Hall. They beckon me, to join their feast. In my dreams, I hear their call.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

Amazon Shop: Scales

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Atheism as a religion? niteowl 617 15 03/06/09 09:24 PM
by niteowl
* Atheists - which Gods do you not believe in?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
AsanteA 6,565 79 01/21/09 01:44 PM
by AnxietyDrive
* Athiests.
( 1 2 3 all )
thoughts 2,045 51 12/13/07 11:20 PM
by wyldeman007
* how can athiests exist?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
beatlesrock 6,109 191 05/05/09 12:20 AM
by Mr. Mushrooms
* For Atheists...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Cracka_X 4,916 109 07/25/06 09:14 PM
by cloudtop
* Explain to me the fact that there is more then one Religion. Droz 1,346 17 08/29/06 10:46 PM
by Icelander
* Religion Chart
( 1 2 3 all )
Just_a_Shadow 2,743 42 08/28/08 11:02 PM
by Icelander
* Thoughts on Atheism, and Nolabelism Amnesiac 622 6 05/14/03 01:58 AM
by Amnesiac

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
5,177 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 12 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Crestline Sales - MycoPath
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.056 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 21 queries.