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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom
    #2915699 - 07/22/04 01:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Regardless if one is a Roman Catholic or not, today is a 'feast day,' a sort of lesser holiday that recognizes Jesus' number one female friend and disciple. Of late, there have been more and more books which focus on the Magdalene. I have read a couple of books about her this year from different perspectives, as well as the Gospel of Mary Magdalene (discovered about 150 years ago), and some of the Gnostic Gospels which relate a much more important if not exalted role for her. For early Christians, Mary was titled 'The Apostle to the Apostles,' having been the first person to witness the Resurrected Christ (and this related in the 'tomb narratives' of the Gospels as a kind of 'resusitation' of Jesus in a 'transfigured' type of body).

Some Gnostic sources understand Mary Magdalene to have been a spouse to Jesus, though possibly not through a traditional Jewish wedding. Jesus and Mary are seen as parallel persons to Osirus and Isis - the archetypal couple or Hierosgamos - Sacred Marriage as depicted in ancient Egypt. There are further parallels to Osirus' dismemberment and resurrection and Jesus' fate. The Osirus-Isis union produced a child - Horus, which formed an Egyptian trinity of sorts. Some sources ancient and modern say that Jesus and Mary produced a child also - Sarah, who with Mary and John and Joseph of Arimathea (possessor of the Grail Cup in legend) sailed for the south of Gaul (France). Some sources, with clues from the name Magdala, suggest that Mary was of Ethiopian origin, which means that she was assuredly Black - not the blond or redhead usually depicted in orthodox iconography, but as one of the Black Virgins with child found throughout the Old World, but thought to be the Mother of Jesus with Jesus (not the Magdalene with Sarah!). Of course, this notion of a child of Jesus and the Magdalene leads to the further notion of a 'holy blood line' - the Merovingians (a sinister character in 'The Matrix' you might recall). These ideas have spawned 'The DaVinci Code' and have been another avenue to uncover the immense deceptions perpetuated by the Catholic Church and unconsciously inherited by Protestantism and Orthodoxy.

Perhaps the greatest deception of all in Christendom is the notion that GOD is exclusively masculine in nature. This deception was also perpetuated in Judaism, both ancient and modern, but I am reading Patai's classic ' The Hebrew Goddess and Catlin Matthew's book Sophia: Goddess of Wisdom - Bride of God. The GOD of Israel - YHVH - had representations of His Divine Consort or Bride, called Asherah in Solomon's Temple. In Orthodox theologian Sergei Bulgakov's book Sophia: Wisdom of God the man came very close to modern-day condemnations of heresy by writing the Eternal Feminine - Wisdom - Sophia into the inner life of the Godhead. Not turning the Trinity into a Quaternity, but saying that Wisdom is an essential divine attribute belonging to the Godhead. One Gnostic Church today refers to the Trinity as 'Father - Son - Mother' where the Mother is the Holy Spirit (which is referred to in feminine terms in the Old Testament and which 'came upon' the 'Virgin' Mary thereby making the 'Virgin' the representation of the Holy Spirit on Earth.

More recently, Mary Magdalene has come to be seen as the representation of the Holy Spirit and hence of Wisdom on Earth. Symbolically, both Marys were said to witness the crucifixion of Jesus. The 'Virgin' Mary is said to be the Mother of Jesus' Earthly Wisdom, and the Magdalene is said to be the Bride of Jesus' spiritual Wisdom, by her role in the integration of feminine principles in the personality of Jesus. Some suggest that the Magdalene was a priestess of Isis who taught Sacred Sexual Love to Jesus. The 'woman with the alabaster jar,' which often is symbolized with the Magdalene, was said to contain the expensive spice Spikenard (with which Jesus' feet were 'anointed' with Maggie's hair) which was used in Indian Tantric sex historically. Be that as it may, sexual or 'merely intimate' - Mary Magdalene was NOT a reformed prostitute (teaching was abolished by the RC Church in 1966); was quite possibly a woman of means who supported the Apostles 'out of her own substance;' was closest to Jesus (although the Church put 'John the beloved disciple' in her stead - and DaVinci knew this, painting Mary in John's place in The Last Supper); and perhaps most importantly, as the symbolic first person to witness the Resurrection (whatever that Mystery really was) Mary Magdalene can be seen in a new Light - as the Wisdom consort to Jesus' Compassion - the [perhaps] non-sexual love union like the Yab-Yum (Compassion-Wisdom) symbol of Ultimate Reality in Tibetan Buddhism.

Let us pray: +++Our Father-Mother, Who art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name...+++


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineZahid
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2918995 - 07/23/04 02:45 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Awesome post, Mark.  :thumbup: Especially the mention of DaVinci and his (perhaps) spin on things. Only recently have I been looking into Mary Magdalene, who was beloved by Y'shua and even made the other apostles jealous in this account by Philip: "The companion of the Savior is Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth. The rest of the disciples were offended... They said to him, "Why do you love her more than all of us? the Savior answered and said to them, "Why do I not love you as I love her?" What I'm reading now in regard to females and the Divine Essence is amazing.. and the projection of wisdom that was often beheld by mystics looking for symbols. Ibn al-Arabi even once felt divinely moved by an unearthly experience where he saw a girl named Nizam at Masjid al-Haram in Mecca. He later (and likely drunk on her love) concluded that Nizam was an incarnation of Sophia, the Wisdom which lead al-Arabi into an understanding of symbols which lead him to title himself a 'Student of Khidr', a mysterious figure in the Qur'an that reveals spiritual wisdom to Moses that he had not previously had.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2919234 - 07/23/04 04:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the Magdalene

Why do you refer to her as The Magdelene?

I agree with you about Christianity lacking a feminine sense of divinity. A friend of mine jokingly said it was gay in a way because we are placing this surfer-looking Jesus with washboard abs on a pedestal with no female counterpart. When referring to God with my conventially religious friends, I try to work in (when referring to God) ,"She loves you..she this she that"..it gets them to thinking at least.

Zahid: Where is this reference to Jesus kissing MM on the mouth in the Bible?


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Jellric]
    #2919289 - 07/23/04 04:57 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Bible? Nag Hammadi, bro. The Gospel of Philip  :heart:


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Zahid]
    #2919307 - 07/23/04 05:01 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hit me with some quotes.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Jellric]
    #2919322 - 07/23/04 05:11 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
Hit me with some quotes.




You can read it here: http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gop.html and here: http://www.metalog.org/files/philip.html

A few quotes though, some of my favorites...

The apostles said to the disciples, "May our entire offering obtain salt." They called Sophia "salt". Without it, no offering is acceptable. But Sophia is barren, without child. For this reason, she is called "a trace of salt". Wherever they will in their own way, the Holy Spirit, and her children are many.

Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way. There is a rebirth and an image of rebirth. It is certainly necessary to be born again through the image. Which one? Resurrection. The image must rise again through the image. The bridal chamber and the image must enter through the image into the truth: this is the restoration. Not only must those who produce the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, do so, but have produced them for you. If one does not acquire them, the name "Christian" will also be taken from him. But one receives the unction of the of the power of the cross. This power the apostles called "the right and the left." For this person is no longer a Christian but a Christ.

Salam.


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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Zahid]
    #2919393 - 07/23/04 05:37 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I Believe this post has been a blessing ,


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Zahid]
    #2920630 - 07/23/04 03:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the elaboration Zahid.
Yes, it would seem that ANY female so disposed to GOD, can be an exponent of Sophia. Not to say that She isn't also a carrier of Compassion, but for archetypal 'reasons,' like feminine lunar and masculine solar imagery, the feminine 'Matrix' (Mater-Mother-Matter) is That from which the masculine principle is 'begotten.' Wisdom is 'with GOD' from all eternity. It is easy to see the notion of 'partner' or 'consort' if not 'wife.' Humanity has to face it and come clean with patriarchy. Physical might does not make right, males are not essentially superior to females (especially in Judaism and Islam and Catholic Christianity), and females are equally deserving of Eternal Life as males (Islam in particular). Catholics could reinterpret their intentional and misogynistic misinterpretations of scripture (theoretically); Jews have had to restructure the entire faith in the past after the Temple was finally destroyed and hence Temple-Judaism turned into the rabbinic form, so why not again, but what of Islam? The Qu'ran, as many know, has not been reinterpreted like the Bible but has continued to exist unmodified. How would the non-equality of the sexes, and the metaphysical implications about GOD ever become reconciled?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Jellric]
    #2920737 - 07/23/04 04:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Magdalene is not her last name. People were not named that way in 1st century Judea. Magdalene probably refers to her place of origin, yet there is no historically identifiable place around Judea with that name, at that time. Firstly, the town later called Magdel was in fact called Medjdel (tower) at the time of Jesus.

"...[W]hy was she alone called the Magdalene? Surely it would be analogous in a modern London mission to single out just one woman as 'the Eastender.' She is also described as 'Mary ( called Magdalene )', which is a very different form of words from the likes of, for example, 'Simon of/from Cyrene.' Once again, there is a suggestion of deliberate obfuscation, perhaps one implication being that some people may call her Mary of Bethany, while others knew her as Mary Magdalene...In fact, nowhere in the New Testament does it spell out where Mary comes from."

"[A]lthough there was no 'Magdala' in Judea in her day, there was a Magdolum in Egypt - just across the border - which was probably Migdol mentioned in Ezekiel...If the Magdalene were really from the Egyptian town of Magdolum, this could provide a clue as to why she was so sidelined....if the Magdalene was a priestess from Egypt, that would increase the Jewish men's hostility to her a thousandfold. Not only was she an outspoken and independent woman of means, but also invested with pagan authority!.....Perhaps there was another reason why the Magdalene was treted so badly by the men of Jesus' following...Indeed, it may be significant that for many years there was a Magdala in Ethiopia, a remote hilltop fortress in the south of the country...An Ethiopian background would certainly have made her extremely exotic and perhaps disturbing to the insular men of Jesus' mission such as Simon Peter." - Mary Magdalene by Lynn Picknett


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineZahid
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2922318 - 07/24/04 12:19 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

As Islam is traditionally laid out as a 'lay theocracy' of sorts because of its quick rise, the biggest problem today resulting from that is that Muslims are still somewhat in geopolitical shock from colonization; especially considering the cultural diversity of Muslims which was once (at least) somewhat unified under a Caliph - but that was then, this is now. Unfortunately such social reforms in regard to women, homosexuals, etc. are hardly a focus in Muslim countries because of the huge gap between people and government - the lack of democracy, and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in Muslim states that are ran by secular governments. These are the political set-backs. The embodied set-backs in Islam, however cultural they may seem - do result in the almost instant nature of 6th century Arabia's transformation to a monotheistic entity. Without the Recitation of Muhammad that moved an entire people over 23 years to monotheism (where it took the early Israelites some 700 years to make the transition), Islam as a religion probably would not have survived. The tradition of reinterpretation (and thus some social change) is not a lost one in Islam, in fact - like tasawwuf, it is integral as the ijtihaadi tradition (independent reasoning), it's just sadly being ignored these days in the tired state of the world's Muslim community.

As for the reconciliation of metaphysics in Islam, I do believe each knower climbs the ladder of orthodoxy regardless what persists in a mystic's earthly religious background. To me there is a difference in how Christian and Muslim exoterics have dealt with mystical traditions within each tradition. Gnosticism in Christianity unfortunately was forced underground in its early years; and this itself is unfortunate as Gnostic women had equality compared to women in the Roman Catholic Church. Islamic mysticism, however developed a tradition that eventually became integral to Islam as tasawwuf/nafs-i-safiyya - but, because of persisting literalism, Sufis have always been suspect of 'innovation' by mainstream Sunnis (to the point of ultra-Sunnism known Salafism) especially the more ecstatic Sufis who lean towards metaphysics and gnostic thought.

As a Sufi Muslim, Gnostic, Chisti (since I tend to lean towards the teachings of Hazrat Inayat Khan which puts more focus on bringing other faiths into the picture), I think the biggest potential for metaphysics is with Shi'ite Muslims - ironic in every sense since Imam Ali was the first arif-gnostic of Islam, but the gnosis of Ali has little or nothing to do with the potential for elaborated mystical traditions in Shia Islam. Ali was the first to establish personal discipline with the external Law as taught by Muhammad and the sincerity of intention (ikhlas) that came from personal growth (which became the tasawwuf tradition that resulted from Ali's gnosis, and the efforts of later Muslim mystics). Tasawwuf is traditionally now the growth of consciousness that is seeded by gnosis - actual talk of gnosis among Muslims is generally reserved for those who understand tasawwuf, Ali's position, etc. since exoteric Muslims are only familiar with gnosis as an innovation (bi'dah) and believe that the growth of one's being in tasawwuf can only be found in the Holy Qur'an and Muhammad's Sunnah.

Salam/Shalom.  :heart:


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Edited by Zahid (07/24/04 12:52 AM)


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Zahid]
    #2922410 - 07/24/04 01:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That's all very interesting Zahid but how does it tie in to Mary Magdalene?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Zahid]
    #2922522 - 07/24/04 02:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So, it would seem that Muslim 'Gnostics' would have to (1) fit within the marginalized Sufi movement somewhere (Chisti or other) and (2) even within a Sufi order, egalitarian philosophy would still be something of a 'fifth column.' I don't really see there being married Roman Catholic priests or female priests in my lifetime, or beyond. The whole RC enterprise will probably go down in flames before the evil patriarchy gives itself up to Truth and True Christianity. It may be that all of the religions of the Book will remain as much a part of the 'Matrix' as they ever were. Only the mystics will Know the Truth, but they will never be recognized for their own sake as portals into Reality, only recognized to be alternatingly put on pedestals (as too exalted to emulate, and instead be idolized-venerated) OR persecuted. Fairness derived from Truth seems to belong to a mythological Kingdom of Heaven-on-Earth, Golden Age, Paradise, etc.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2922668 - 07/24/04 03:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Can either of you translate what you are saying into laymen's terms or is this a private conversation?


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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2922712 - 07/24/04 03:26 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

My being Chisti has more to do with my adoration for Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan and his 'universal' teachings than it does with my subjective mystical experiences. Chisti, Naqshbandi, Rifai, etc. in Sufism have more to do with God intoxication (especially Naqshbandi) than it does with mystical knowledge. The Muslim and Christian climates are very different, theologically, geopolitically, economically - and Islam, and all the various cultures that adapted the Islamic faith as their own, are still moving foward. With ijtihaad, Islam (or at least some wide range Muslim people who move from moderate Islam to liberal Islam) can develope an egalitarian philosophy in every sense when conditions permit, when some freedom starts to ring. It wouldn't be fifth column to any particular group of Muslims since eventually (and hopefully) religion and state will be seperated, as mainstream Muslims begin to realize that the days of Shari'ah Khilafah are over - and that it's time to adapt to the modern situation with their own juristic reasoning. The Gates are currently closed right now for reasons beyond the control of the average Muslim. It is after all, a mostly third world religion now. Despite all this, mysticism in Islam does have something of a tolerated tradition in the religion. The persecuted mystics often faced death not for tasawwuf, or their "Sufi" robes, but for expressing their experiences in ways that appear shirk. If Hallaj had said "I am he who submits to Allah [I am a Muslim]" or "I am a Student of al-Junaayd" in his fana it would imply an otherly existence outside the countenance of God when "everything is perishing except His face", which would also assert duality. Mystics of every tradition will be the mirrors of non-duality and Truth as they always have been.  :thumbup:


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Edited by Zahid (07/24/04 07:50 AM)


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2922836 - 07/24/04 04:43 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I was a devout catholic until 9 months ago, and I have to give a big middle finger straight up to the catholic faith.

Fuck Catholicism

Feel much better now.

The bible is glorified stories, not history. Catholicism is scare tactics for peace. Not the very worst thing going, but certainly not a good thing either.


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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: RedNucleus]
    #2922942 - 07/24/04 06:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The bible is full of his-stories :smile:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Zahid]
    #2922971 - 07/24/04 07:11 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry for butting in.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Zahid]
    #2923099 - 07/24/04 09:32 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"It wouldn't be fifth column to any particular group of Muslims since eventually (and hopefully) religion and state will be seperated, as mainstream Muslims begin to realize that the days of Shari'ah Khilafah are over - and that it's time to adapt to the modern situation with their own juristic reasoning. "

even then..why would you believe that adapting to a modern situation would give way to religion and state being seperated? it definately isn't this way in the United States.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: Zahid]
    #2923329 - 07/24/04 12:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well spoken Zahid. It seems that the virtue of hope runs in your veins. I am not an Apocalypticist, but there is supposed to be this Armageddon thing on the plains of Megiddo. I always thought this would be some Israeli-Arab-based conflagration with the US involved, thereby bringing together Jewish-Muslim-Christian ideologies to the 'Final Conflict.' Perhaps my pessimism runs deeper than blood (my blood type is actually B-  which seems to translate into 'Be Negative' as a constitutional pessimism! :smile: ) Perhaps my pessimism in the present derives from the inevitability of a bleak Earthly future event (Backwards Causation). I suppose this is connected to my introverted bent and its tendency towards individual enlightenment-salvation rather than a global one. WE could worship in various Houses of GOD without a problem. I am open to learning the prayer-forms of Islam, for example, without forsaking my own faith-stance. How many others are there on this world who are willing to do likewise?

Do not suppose that my pessimism is pointed at Islam alone. It is looking at all the Peoples of the Book with a multi-faceted pessimism, each faith seemingly manifesting one or the other insoluble blockages against expanded, enhanced human development. I hope you didn't feel singled out!

Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2923401 - 07/24/04 12:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not a jerk, I'm not trying to flame you.
But... You can't explain pessimism about a bleak future as backwards causality. We've all heard apocalypse stories, and I guess anyone's unsure about that coming about. And the world as a whole seems to be heading always towards corruption. So I think your pessimism is simple psychology.

I do believe in causality. I'm not trying to flame you.


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