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Village Genius Registered: 09/19/03 Posts: 7,935 Loc: San Diego Last seen: 8 years, 11 months |
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Quote: it seems to me like this is more about finding a way to say "see? its their fault. we shouldnt try to help them out, they have done it to themselves" thus cleansing oneself of any feeling of the need to help others out.
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everydayjunglist Registered: 09/29/03 Posts: 398 Loc: va |
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Quote: all i was saying is that bob costas's opinion shouldnt be discredited just because he isnt an "authority" on hiphop culture. i was just trying to question what it takes to be an authority on rap culture.
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everydayjunglist Registered: 09/29/03 Posts: 398 Loc: va |
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Quote: how? because bob costas has an opinion about hiphop culture? on a side note, i really can't believe im defending bob costas here, because i can't stand him (anybody seen the interviews with Vince McMan?). but on this issue i think he's correct.
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everydayjunglist Registered: 09/29/03 Posts: 398 Loc: va |
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Quote: Yes. all you just did is cite 1 group, not a whole genre of music that we are talking about.
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Village Genius Registered: 09/19/03 Posts: 7,935 Loc: San Diego Last seen: 8 years, 11 months |
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goth music?
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Stranger Registered: 05/24/04 Posts: 10,920 |
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ok. should all country music musicians be role models for the entire white race?
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Two inch dick..but it spins!? ![]() Registered: 11/29/01 Posts: 34,247 Loc: Lost In Space |
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Quote: Shitheads are shitheads. -------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Rogue State Registered: 04/17/03 Posts: 1,047 Loc: Wales (yes it is Last seen: 15 years, 10 months |
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Quote: Slipknot isn't goth music, its nu-metal.... A by-product of Korn and MTV.
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Village Genius Registered: 09/19/03 Posts: 7,935 Loc: San Diego Last seen: 8 years, 11 months |
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no i mean isn't goth music a genre of music that generally sets a bad example for white kids?
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-=HasH=- Registered: 07/14/04 Posts: 851 |
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You brought up a number of good points, I'll try to address them all.
Quote: The majority of hip-hop that I see on television when I happen to glance at BET involves black people glorifing a life of sexual promiscuity, making their fortunes by selling drugs, and talking about criminal acts such as murder as if they are good things. Quote: I think that I actually went a little bit off topic here. The issue I was bringing up is that the media, and the black community themselves, portray rappers and athletes as the ideal role model for black children. It's as if they are saying "You niggers are too dumb to be anything but rappers or athletes, but if you do that, you'll be rich, so aim for that!". I think that is why the comment about the KKK and hip-hop culture saying the same thing to black kids came to be. White children don't have to look to SlipKnot, or other artists or athletes, as their sole source of role models. They can easily look at their community leaders, businessmen, doctors, lawyers, etc. The white community (as a whole, sorry for the overgeneralization) promotes these individuals more than the black community does as role models for their children. You don't see hordes of white kids running around dressing like Tupac ro wearing basketball jerseys. They realize that this isn't their only way to make it. Black kids are given rappers and athletes as their role models, then when an educated doctor (Cosby) comes out and says that they need to work harder and stop being ignorant, he gets blasted for it. Why? For telling black kids that they are smart enough to work hard and get educations and make it that way, rather than having to be a gangbanger, a rapper, or throw a ball a great distance? Being told that they don't have to grow up to be "niggers" isn't a bad thing. Quote: http://www.africana.com/articles/daily/bw20040311naacp.asp The NAACP, not the media or the parents, nominated mainly hip-hop artists for their image award. Not business leaders, not politicans, but rappers. To their credit, Van Dross won the award. Quote: It's Viacom, one M, and I don't watch MTV, VH1, or BET any more than when I accidentally hit them as I switch through the channels. I do listen to that type of music on the radio when friends are with me and it seems to be more silence due to the explicatives being removed than anything else. Just because a small, underground, hip-hop community is positive, doesn't mean that the entire community is. The majority of the black guys that I work with act more like Tupac (and talk more like them) than Tribe Called Quest, J5, Blackalicious, etc. Would you agree that the majority of black youth try to act out the "cool black guy" image portrayed by mainstream hop-hop, over the positive black image promoted by these undeground hip-hop sessions? Quote: Rock music might have a tone of getting laid alot, but it doesn't refer to women as "bitches" or "ho's". The songs might describe some violence, but it's more of the "I put my fingers into my eyes..." type than "Shoot motherfuckers for crack, bitch bitch bitch, fucking nigger" type that I hear on friends hip-hop CD's. Quote: Again, it's because the music encourages it and provides role models for it. Do you think that black kids living in the ghetto watch the news more, or MTV/BET more? Now, with watching that type of media and being shown that that is the "cool" way to act, they try to duplicate it. The breakdown of the family unit could easily be caused by the overall attitude towards ho's and bitches' portrayed in hip-hop music. When songs are about being a "playa" and fuckin mad bitches, it doesn't really encourage the youth to go out and develop a meaninful, trusting love-based relationship, does it? Quote: I don't really know where I could find those sources at, but if you want me to, I'll do a conditional search for them. The conditions; 1) If I find that impoverished black areas have higher amounts of violent crimes than impoverished white areas, you'll condede that I proved my point. 2) I'll also be including areas with a high population of Native Americans, so that the "they've been oppressed" issue won't come into play. Native Americans were oppressed much more than black people have been, so they should be doing much worse and commiting far more crimes, somehow I doubt this will be the case. Deal? Quote: Dr. Pierce is dead, so it's a nonexistant point. Also, McVeigh wasn't a white supremacist. One of his coconspirators, I forget which one, had a wife of Philipino or Hawaiian ethnicity. The media put up "racist books" next to McVeighs picture, and the next day, he was a neo-Nazi. This isn't about legal culpabilty, it's about the images that are portrayed. Black children, through mainstream media, are being taught about how to live by people who glorify a lifestyle that is negative. Living a gangbanger lifestyle leads to the horrible conditions that exist in the ghetto. I don't think that hip-hop artists should be sued, or censored, but I think that if black people, as a whole, have aspirations that involve not living in the ghetto and being seen as "niggers" by other people, they need to develop better role models, more positive values being expressed through music, and listen when men who have "made it" from the ghetto, such as Cosby, give them advice.
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-=HasH=- Registered: 07/14/04 Posts: 851 |
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Quote: I don't see it as being a "bad" influence, per se. They aren't encouraging promiscuity, the itemization of women, a lifestyle of violence and murders. I know quite a few computer tech's who make 6 figures who are goth types. I'll also admit that I can't understand most of the words in "Goth" songs, so I can't really be held as an authority. Also, the media doesn't portray goths as the idealized white person. How many black males o you know that try as hard as possible to act like rappers? Wearing the little pantyhose hat, basketball jerseys, "bitches and hos", etc etc?
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Stranger Registered: 05/24/04 Posts: 10,920 |
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Quote: Ok. Now, when I turn on MTV I see white people doing pretty much the same thing but in a different format. And I also know plenty of white kids are who quite far from being upright citizens and college-bound...is the crap music they listen to to blame? No. Quote: I agree. There are not many community leaders, businessmen, doctors, lawyers, etc. in impoverished areas - this, however, is not the fault of hiphop. It is the result of poverty, terrible public schools, young mothers and fathers, etc. There arent too many community leaders, businessment, doctors, lawyers, etc. in the white trailer park, either. Quote: Well, Cosby is correct so as long as he actually targets the source of these problems and not scapegoat a genre of music. Quote: Well, that's just retarded. But you have to put it in perspective - not many kids give a shit about the NAACP award show and certainly not the ones who are involved in gangs. Quote: Quote: There are thugs, and there are people who give a shit. I think it all goes back to parenting and early socialization to be caring/sensitive or not. The music isnt making people act this way. I dont know how old you are, but surely you can understand there was crime in impoverished areas long before the birth of hiphop in the 1970s, right? Just for the record, the hiphop community isnt as small as you think. Come visit NYC or LA or Chicago or Detroit and you'll see how large and influential it is. Quote: Same difference man. Can you say bias? Quote: Dont know. How many white kids watch the news more or MTV more? Quote: Like I said in previous posts, of course the music is an influence, but it completely overshadowed by other influences. These problems have been predated by the birth of hiphop in the 1970s. It's just easy to point fingers at music instead of addressing the issues of shitty public schools, unemployment, drug addiction, etc. Quote: Umm, no thanks - I'll still like to see your sources. Quote: Of course they need better role models - we all need role models who arent on the TV and are actually accessible and real. We should also not expect The Spectacle to raise our children. Personally, I think targeting a genre of music is a waste of time considering the fact that there are greater and more problematic and much more urgent situations at hand. "Heavy metal devil music makes kids kill themselves!" Nevermind the divorced parents who are never around, never mind the bullies at school, nevermind the untreated depression....
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-=HasH=- Registered: 07/14/04 Posts: 851 |
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Quote: You see that when you turn on MTV? I don't watch it much, but when I do, it's either the newest boy-band or pop girl, or black musicians. Quote: The trailer parks around here are mainly filled with construction workers that are all driving, it seems, brand new 35,000$ vehicles. I bet the majority of trailer dwellers are there because of their lack of ability to properly use credit, rather than being "poor". Quote: Costas himself said it was "pop culture" and "hip hop and elsewhere". He isn't saying it's solely due to rap music, and that if rap were to change, blacks would suddenly all be doctors and lawyers, but the main cultural forces, even those in the black community, keep pushing rappers and athletes as role models, while not showing doctors and other figures. Quote: But it shows that the "main group" fighting for black civil rights has fallen into this trap as well. As long as it's a rich black man, they try to make other black kids fit that mold as well. Music and sports, thats sad. Quote: If you really want to tie them in that way, I could say that crime has skyrocketed since hiphop was introduced. Obviously other factors are at play here. If their were no MTv, BET, VH1 or "bad hip hop", do you think that black youth would still follow the paths that they do today? No role models telling them how great it is to "fuck bitches" and be a "playa", why would they do it? You aren't saying that they are genetically disposed to these traits, are you? Quote: Ah, the influence of urban music on New York. I think I'll pass. Quote: Name some of the bigger "white rock" groups in existance today and some of the biggest (by popularity, on both counts) black music stars of today. DO you think that black youth are more likely or less likely than white youth to emulate and act as the musicians that they listen to? Quote: I don't think that anyone yet, including myself or Costas, have said it's solely the factor of music. If you had 500 kids of mixed races and let 250 fo them listen to nothing but hank williams(sr) and the other 250 listen to nothing but some extreme black rapper, do you think that they'd share the same values? Quote: So you concede that I'm right? Quote: I think that you are so ego-tied to "hip hop" that anything said further will continute to be, in your eyes, an assault on the music. If you can't realize that black kids listen to music that shapes their values, in part along with other things, then you just aren't able to see reality.
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Stranger Registered: 05/24/04 Posts: 10,920 |
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Quote: So, are you agreeing with me that the music isnt the cause of urban trouble? Good - because it isnt. Okay. I looked into the NAACP Image Awards. Here's a link: Alicia Keys Up For Seven NAACP Image Awards from MTV.com. Here's a quote: There are 41 categories in the NAACP Image Awards, which cover motion pictures, television, music and literature. The winners are determined by a panel of over 300 entertainment business professionals and NAACP leaders. See, these Image Awards highlight and give a headsup to entertainment artists. You made it seem like the musicians were being given awards in spite of "community leaders, business professionals, doctors, lawyers, etc." - that these people are being overlooked because the NAACP is so blind and only wants to recognize athletes and musicians. Are they not supposed to have award ceremonies? And if you read the list of awardees (and google around for more recent listings), you'll see they are not that big of a deal. The youth are being corrupted by Nelly Furtado, Jill Scott, Brian McKnight, Outkast...oh no! Call Tipper Gore! Quote: what trap? Giving out entertainment awards to harmless musicians during an entertainment awards show? Are they not allowed to do this? If you really think that Nelly Furtado is corrupting the youth, you have more problems than can be addressed here. Quote: Yes, many other factors are at play. Hiphop isnt the problem nor an excuse for the bad choices of individuals. Quote: Sans fashion, trends, dance styles, and purchasing habits, yes - the kids would be pretty similiar so as long as they still lived in run-down areas with little opportunity and failing public schools. Travel much? Ever been to South America? Hiphop isnt as commonplace there, but there is more crime. Is it the bossanova that is making kids pick pockets? Quote: Genetically disposed? huh? Do you even read what I post? I have already stated the probable reasons for urban troubles - repeatedly. Scroll back up and open your eyes while you read - it helps. Quote: I'm not so sure that kids "emulate and act as the musicians that they listen to" as much as you seem to think. They are more influenced by their parents/families and how they were socialized during school. Quote: ...but yet you have, for all practical purposes, focused on hiphop and ignored the other causes, namely: public schools, bad parenting, lack of quality and empowering employment, etc. Quote: Now there's a quality experiment...give me a break. Hmm were these kids already listening to country music or rap to begin with? I grew up in a military household, so I've lived all over the country/world. I've known people who were into country music - some were idiots, some were not. I've known people who were into hiphop - some were idiots, some were not. I think the differences (as I have stated before) go back to parenting and schooling and socialization and other economic factors. Individual choices also are a big factor. Did country music make my friend get drunk and beat up his girlfriend even though that's what the country musician sung about? No. Quote: umm, no. I havent seen any statistics yet. where are they? Quote: Give me a fucking break kid. Have you even read my posts? I have stated repeatedly that blaming music for the negative actions of individuals is just retarded - no matter what genre. I have said that when heavy metal was demonized in the Reagan 1980s that I found it be ridiculous. Here's the thing: I hate heavy metal. Now how does that play into my bias? Quote: Once again, of course the music that we chose to listen to influences us. In fact, every sensory/informational/socializin Now, if you will excuse me, I'm going to go listen to Frankenchrist and go molest children and worship Satan because that's what music makes me do.
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-=HasH=- Registered: 07/14/04 Posts: 851 |
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Quote: It isn't the sole cause. It perpetuates it. I can't say that more simply than that. Quote: So the NAACP, as I have said and was my inital point, is making a statement that the only awards show that they offer with the title "image award" is for entertainers? Can't black people do anything but entertain us? If white people had an awards show featuring colored people as "images" and "role models" and all of the recpients were entertainers, would you think that some people might construe that to mean that the colored people were being told that the most they could hope for was to sing or dance? Quote:
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Stranger Registered: 05/24/04 Posts: 10,920 |
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Quote: The NAACP Image Award Show is about giving awards to entertainers. from http://www.naacpimageawards.net/ The NAACP Image Awards is an exciting, star-studded salute to the best in entertainment. Honorees, presenters and performers have included many of the major celebrities in America as well as International political figures and dignitaries. There are 35 competitive categories in the fields of motion picture, television, music and literature. There are several honorary awards including the President?s Award, the Chairman?s Award, Entertainer of the Year and The Image Award Hall of Fame. So, why is it such a crime that an entertainment award show gives awards to entertainers? And what does this have to do with anything? How exactly is this creating crime and unemployment? If you ask any kid in poor, urban areas about the NAACP Image Awards, they'll tell you that they dont give a shit - especially the ones that are involved in gangs or dealing or robbery. Do you really think that gangbangers sit down and watch the NAACP Image Award Show? I'm guessing you live far, far away from this environment that we're discussing, no? And whats so bad about giving a headsup to people who have made it in the film or television industry? Many of us only hope to be so successful. How many millions have you made this year? How many films have you produced? Quote: Do you even read my posts?? I already said that music (and pretty much everything else for that matter) is an influence on individuals. I just say that it pales in comparison to the tremendous effect that unemployment and poor public schools have on people and their communities. I have said repeatedly that to target music to such a degree that you have is weak, weak strategy and reaks of Puritanism. Once you focus on the major causes of these problems instead of masterbating over those evil hiphop records, then I'll take you seriously. Quote: I'd say they would learn that hardwork and dedication will lead you to success. Putting out records and touring is quite hardwork and takes alot of business sense, but you wouldnt know that. Quote: Let's see these instructions. Let's see some lyrics of popular hiphop artists that are overtly communicating instructions on committing crimes. This should be good Quote: Correct. Why do people commit criminal acts? Usually it is because they are fucking desperate and were not instilled good values by their parents or schooling (or themselves, for that matter). Quote: You sure are a fan of these bizarre, extreme, and contrived hypothetical questions. I do not agree to your ridiculous premise that hiphop encourage people en masse to commit crimes, etc. as much as poor public schools and lack of substantial and legal financial opportunities. Quote: Of course popular music influences popular fashion and other weak and insignificant trends. I have already stated so. But I do not think that popular music directly influences extreme, anti-social behavior to the amount that you think. And the rare times it does, such behavior is not the fault of the distant musician, it is the fault of the parents for not being around to turn this music off. It is the fault of the individual him or herself. Why are you so inclined to point fingers at those so far removed and not at those who are directly responsible? Quote: Yes, and "hip-hop and it's effect" pale in comparison to the real influences of one's life. To focus just on music trends is to make a huge error. Quote: huh? I'll need to actually see these great statistics first before I make any judgement call. See how it works? I need to see if they are actually fair, relevent, and accurate. Again, where are they? And why do you make statements claiming such knowledge, but yet do not have the statistics at all? The moon is inhabited by giant aardvarks! where's your source? Dont have any, but I'll go try to find one, I guess. But first you must agree to concede your arguement if I do find a source. Deal? Umm, whatever dude. Where's your source You just dont want to admit that I'm right... Quote: You get so upset over a messageboard that you resort to condescension and presumption? Quote: I can tell you are not familiar with the Frankenchrist album - you need to actually read up on music censorship history and the lame aruments of the likes of Tipper Gore made in the 1980s. You might actually learn something about this subject instead of just talking out of your ass.
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-=HasH=- Registered: 07/14/04 Posts: 851 |
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Quote: The answer to one of your last question is "two", I won't say which one it is ![]() Quote: Yes, but you contradict yourself so much it's hard to discuss an issue effectivly with you. Here you are saying it's an influence, but later on you'll try to minimalize that influence. Quote: "I" have? Where did I do anything but say that it's a PART of the problem? Why is it when you, G Daddy Hip Hop, says it's a part of the problem, thats fine, but when I say it, it's my racist puritanical instinct as a white man? Quote: I think I posted the definition of "Topic" somewhere around here, if I didn't, www.dictionary.com has it. I try to stay "on-topic". If we are discussing the impact of hip hop culture, don't you think that it makes just a bit of sense to address, say, the impact of hip hop culture? Just a suggestion. Quote: Why do you always have an insulting tone to your "voice"? Are you so uptight that you can't discuss an issue without trying to degrade a person that, you think, disagrees with you? My job is a broker for airline deals for a major private jet company, so I know what dedication and hardwork mean. I don't think that snoop dogg puts forth as much effort on his tour bus smoking blunts of KB as I do when I'm trying to sell 5 G4's to a customer. I'm using snoop dogg here because he is one of my favorite "rappers", so I know a bit about him. Being a serial killer takes dedication and effort, I'd think that it wouldn't be the best role model though. Quote: You are kidding, right? You don't think that hip-hop talks OVERTLY about shooting people, selling drugs? You think that I won't be able to find gigabytes of lyrics of "murdah, murdah, kill, kill" from rap music? You are nearing the end of your rope here. Quote: Since you won't answer any question that I pose to you, I'll do the same for you. You need to learn that a debate and a monologue are quite different. I'm using this forum because I don't want to just right a blog and have no input, I am interested in a two sided discussion of the issues. If you won't answer a question, then I'll have to doubt your seriousness or your mental aptitude. Quote: Just to help me out, and any other readers who are asking this question, where did I indicate any amount that I think it involves in influencing behavior? Did I say that every kid that listens to rap will shooot people? I don't think so. I think (Is this the 500th time i've typed it in only two days) that I've said that it is a PART of the problem. Stop telling me, or assuming, what I think and start LISTENING. LIIISSTTEEENN. :-) Quote: Because thats what the entire discussion is about! Read the topic! Quote: Start another post about any of the other factors and i'll deal with them solely, a point that you appear to have clipped out of what I said. I'm talking about this particular influence here, thats the "tttoooopic". Quote: No, I think that you did that. I've tried to be as fair and as patient with you as I can. I think that we aren't on a level playing field here, and I'm soon to just stop responding to you. Quote: I put that into babelfish and it came out "Ok, you are right, I greatly exaggerated what I said". I searched for "Violent rap lyrics" and I came up with some whacko Nazi-Type site, however, hear are some lyrics that openly encourage violent acts. Your turn to post the ones I asked about, or to answre my questions, or to reply with anything but profanity and ignorance. http://www.martinlutherking.org/ "Niggas in the church say: kill whitey all night long. . . the white man is the devil. . . . the CRIPS and Bloods are soldiers I'm recruiting with no dispute; drive-by shooting on this white genetic mutant. . . . let's go and kill some rednecks. . . . Menace Clan ain't afraid. . . . I got the .380; the homies think I'm crazy because I shot a white baby; I said; I said; I said: kill whitey all night long. . . . a nigga dumping on your white ass; fuck this rap shit, nigga, I'm gonna blast. . . . I beat a white boy to the motherfucking ground"; "Kill Whitey"; --Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, subsidiaries of what was called Thorn EMI and now is called The EMI Group, United Kingdom. -------------------------------- "To all my Universal Soldier's: stay at attention while I strategize an invasion; the mission be assassination, snipers hitting Caucasians with semi-automatic shots heard around the world; my plot is to control the globe and hold the world hostage. . . . see, I got a war plan more deadlier than Hitler. . . . lyrical specialist, underworld terrorist. . . . keep the unity thick like mud. . . . I pulling out gats , launching deadly attacks"; --"Blood for Blood"; Killarmy, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, 1997, Wu-Tang Records, Priority Records, The EMI Group, United Kingdom. Sorry that these are mainly anti-white lyrics, and not just lyrics espousing random violence. I'd like to see where Manson told people to shoot up schools now, if you please.
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Stranger Registered: 05/24/04 Posts: 10,920 |
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Quote: Agreeing with the obvious (hiphop is a cultural influence) and also stating that that influence is so minimal as compared to other influences in the realm of poverty and lack of opportunity is not a contradiction. Quote: I think it comes with the territory of having to repeat oneself over and over again. Quote: You said: Their are thousands of rap/hip-hop songs that state explicit instructions to murder, deal drugs, treat women as sexual objects, beat women, etc. So, let's see a few of these thousands of explicit instructions to murder, deal drugs, etc - not just some obscure random quote from some virtually unknown artist. Let's see this great influence that is causing all these problems! Quote: You have most certainly implied and/or directly said that music influences behavior. you said: The issue I was bringing up is that the media, and the black community themselves, portray rappers and athletes as the ideal role model for black children. It's as if they are saying "You niggers are too dumb to be anything but rappers or athletes, but if you do that, you'll be rich, so aim for that!". The majority of the black guys that I work with act more like Tupac..Would you agree that the majority of black youth try to act out the "cool black guy" image portrayed by mainstream hop-hop, over the positive black image promoted by these undeground hip-hop sessions? Again, it's because the music encourages it and provides role models for it. :: when asked about the causes of poverty, unemployment, terrible public schools, and the breakdown of the family unit Black children, through mainstream media, are being taught about how to live by people who glorify a lifestyle that is negative. How do you think that black kids in these run down areas react when the majority of the mainstream music that they choose to listen to involves people who started out just as they did, but made it big? Think they might be someone that they'd listen to? Think that the lyrics have ANY influence whatsoever? You've already touched upon the Goth "movement", so I won't bring up that obvious reference. Maybe I could tell you how school dress was during the earily 90's with the apprearance and emerging popularity of grunge rock, I'm sure I remember seeing alot more flannel. If you honestly believe that they don't emulate their artist/genra of choice, then I don't know what to tell you. Quote: And like I have said, the main point of the what Costas said was ridiculous and reactionary. Quote: ...and there is not much to the irrational belief that hiphop creates poverty and crime and lack of opportunity. This topic is dead and buried. Quote: Yes, you were quite condescending. Remember pointing out my spelling error? Remember saying that I was so "ego-tied" to hiphop that couldnt possibly comprehend any criticisms of hiphop? If you want to be treated with respect, dont act like a bitch. Quote: Oh, good job finding some random, unknown lyrics! Those are such a great cultural influence - all the millions of poor kids are just totally brainwashed by them. Give me a break. Quote: First of all, I never said Manson was guilty of telling people "to shoot up schools." I said the fingerpointing by those weak enough to blame music for the poor behavior of a few is irrational and a slippery slope - just plain dumb. And do you really think "Menace Clan" and "Killarmy" (whoever the fuck they are) are as influential as Marilyn Manson? I can easily quote some white power Oi! - but I wont fall into the trap that you're in by claiming these lyrics are influential on mainstream (poor people included) America. So I wont... I'm pretty much done with this thread. Hiphop isnt causing poor black kids to rob and not go to college. Maybe you should actually talk to some of these kids and see whats going on in their lives. You could use this as a reference instead of your "I work with a black guy who acts like Tupac and he's a dumbass" therefore hiphop is bad - nonsense. Open your eyes just a little. peace out G.
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-=HasH=- Registered: 07/14/04 Posts: 851 |
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Quote: It's funny that you didn't even bother to edit your post and remove this after you clearly saw that I did just that. Scroll down and your question will be answered ![]() Quote: I'm shocked! I did the exact thing you asked me to, and you still turn it around to act as if I am ignorant. Sorry for providing you with the exact information that you asked for. Wu-Tang Records is an unknown company? I'd post some of 50 cent's lyrics, but you'd just say that since it's not the hip-hop that you listen to, it's non existant and irrelevant. This is why I didn't bother compiling any stats for the other issue we were talking about Quote: Apples V Oranges, round II Quote: I suppose the song "You's a ho" by Ludacris would prove my point and not yours, so you wouldn't accept it. Songs by major artists extoling the benefits of being a pimp wouldn't prove that the majority of the music debases and objectifies women. http://display.lyrics.astraweb.c "Pistol in hand homie, I'm down to get it poppin' Once I squeeze the first shot (gun shot), you know I ain't stoppin' Till my clip is empty, I'm simply Not that nigga you should try your luck with, or fuck with Hollow-tip shells struck you with your bones broken, gun smokin', still locin' what nigga, lay your ass down paramedics get you up feeling" And I'm sure that since 50 cent's lyrics prove my point and not yours, you'll say that he isn't "mainstream hip hop" and doesn't influence people. I could do it all day, but your ego won't let you see the issue. Again, I think we are on such vastly different intellectual levels that this discussion is becoming ridiculous. Quote: I never said hip-hop was bad. I never said it's the single cause. If you knew how to read with your ever-so-open-mind, you'd see that i never said any of these things. Of course, they don't fit what you want to see, just like the lyrics, so you won't see them. I can rest secure that I've proven my point to you beyond what a rational educated person would desire and that it is your obsitenance and lack of education that prevent you from seeing it. I'll refrain from discussing anything with you again. Maybe next time we could have a hip-hop "dance off" or something more along your intellectual lines to prove a point. Or you could just use more profanity... Quote: Those three "words" there would guarantee you wouldn't work for my company, and it's why the only black men that Ido have working for me aren't trying to represent "tha" ghetto, they are all hardworking men who try to get educated, rather than acting like a hip-hop "nigger".
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umm, no. I havent seen any statistics yet. where are they? 
