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Anonymous

Post deleted by Papaver [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2916404 - 07/22/04 02:26 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)


Edited by paradis (07/22/04 05:13 PM)

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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: Anonymous]
    #2917112 - 07/22/04 06:01 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Bio, I agree with you about the cycle of poverty and the breakdown of the family structure being the most significant factors. I am not blaming all of black American's problems on hip hop culture. I was just reading a book and thought I would share an interesting quote.

Personally, I think the breakdown of the black family plays the biggest influence in the problems associated with the black community. Statistically, children of one parent homes have a much greater incidence of problems. The number of children born out of wedlock in the black community is alarming. Babies having babies.

Here is a blueprint to avoiding poverty by William Calston, a member of the Clinton administration.

1) Finish High School
2) Marry before having a child
3) Wait until you are at least 20 to have that child

8% of people who do all three of those things wind up poor. 79 percent of those who fail to do those things wind up in poverty.

I think many of the problems associated with the black family stem from leftist liberal policies (Great Society programs, Welfare, The War on Poverty, Government Housing, etc.) Paying people not to work was never a good idea. Providing benefits to women and children only if a man was absent only incentivised one parent families. A girl could get pregnant, drop out of school, have a baby and get both a monthly check and a free home. As Walter Williams has said, well intentioned liberals have done more damage during the last 50 years than hundreds of years of slavery, oppression, and Jim Crowe laws. They have destroyed the black family.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Imagine the outrage in your city if white people invaded the ghettos...

Lets all get together and do this. Some of us can start with pimpin the hos. We can whore out their young women. We can violently attack black citizens while they walk the street and take their possessions. We can shoot and kill black men and women at an alarming pace. I got an idea, we could get in cars and drive by people and shoot them.

Could you imagine the outrage if white people started doing that to the black community? Well guess what, it is happening. Except it isn't white people doing it, it is black people doing it to their own people. It happens every fucking day and instead of outrage it is heroically glamorized in hip hop culture.

And Paradis, I was just paraphrasing the quote from Costas. When the KKK comes out and says bad things about blacks, nobody pays any attention to them. The role models of black pop culture today are not summarily dismissed like the KKK would be. Their message is embraced and emulated.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2917236 - 07/22/04 06:40 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup: Excellent points J.C.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2917833 - 07/22/04 09:12 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Don't be a hater...

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2918443 - 07/22/04 10:46 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

listen - first of all, im not white nor am I some sheltered suburban kid. I've lived in rough neighborhoods and have experienced all that we're talking about firsthand. please try not to be so presumptous.

regarding your rant about liberalism being the cause of crime and teenage pregnancy...

um, ok. cool - glad you agree with me that the break down of the family unit is a major cause of urban plight. I'm not sure if I agree with you that liberalism is the seed of this breakdown - but I'll save that long debate for later. that's a bit of tangent, no?

As a hiphop fan, I'd say that the music is the reflection of the current conditions of the urban life (not "black culture" as I pointed out - hiphop is not just a black thing - that is ignorant). I'd say the music is not the cause of these problems. Hiphop isnt the reason why daddy is in prison. Hiphop isnt the reason why the manufacturing plant down the road just shut down and laid a thousand off. Hiphop isnt the reason for crack addiction. Hiphop isnt the reason why the schools are not learning institutions but rather daycares.

you know, gangs and violence and sexism did exist before the birth of hiphop in the mid '70s. just thought I'd point that out. I'd say that the same reasons that caused these things pre-hiphop are pretty much the same reasons of today.

do some hiphop artists glorify these urban plagues? Some do, most dont. But regardless, where are the parents to turn off the stereo if that's the case?

why target just the music? These problems run deeper...

Also, earlier I pointed out that the same problems that affect black communities also affect poor white communities - is hiphop also to blame? um, no. is it rock music? um, no. is heavy metal the reason why white middle class teenagers kill themselves? um, no. Did Marilyn Mansion make Kleboid and Harris shoot up their school? Give me a break.

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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2918581 - 07/22/04 11:05 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

As long as black kids walk around calling each other niggers, talking about playin' bitches and hos, and bragging about clothes, material things and getting wasted I think it is fair to blame alot of black entertainment culture for setting bad examples. Black kids don't see lots of examples of black men and women succeeding through education, frugality and hard work, they see rappers and ballers. Bill Cosby is dead on.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2918643 - 07/22/04 11:13 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

...yeah, when white kids walk around cursing, getting wasted, and being materialistic (like alot of white people do), it is the fault of the rock musicians.  :rolleyes:

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Invisiblesynthesis
everydayjunglist

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 398
Loc: va
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2919896 - 07/23/04 09:54 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
As long as black kids walk around calling each other niggers, talking about playin' bitches and hos, and bragging about clothes, material things and getting wasted I think it is fair to blame alot of black entertainment culture for setting bad examples. Black kids don't see lots of examples of black men and women succeeding through education, frugality and hard work, they see rappers and ballers. Bill Cosby is dead on.




:thumbup:

exactly.

"Every time black people want to have a good time, ign'ant-ass niggas f--- it up! ... Can't do nothing! Can't keep a disco open more than three weeks! Grand opening! Grand closing! Can't go to a movie the first week it comes out! Why? Cause niggas are shooting at the screen! ... I love black people, but I hate niggas, brother. Oh, I hate niggas!" -- Chris Rock

i think that if Martin Luther King were alive today, he would be saying the same things that Cosby is saying. the black subculture of today really needs to be altered or eliminated for real change to occur.


--------------------
http://www.infowars.com

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: synthesis]
    #2920253 - 07/23/04 11:51 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I dont understand. every race has people that do not use proper grammer, who are sexist, who are materialistic, who are violent. There are just as many white trash as there are ghetto thugs; there are just as many ghetto thugs as there are latino bangers. why do you single out the "black subculture" (whatever that means) to be eliminated (whatever that means)?

why is this even a racial issue? Seems to be more of an economic issue, and to single out just one race for the problems that effect all poor populations is to totally miss the target.

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Invisiblesynthesis
everydayjunglist

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 398
Loc: va
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: Vvellum]
    #2920382 - 07/23/04 12:27 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
I dont understand. every race has people that do not use proper grammer, who are sexist, who are materialistic, who are violent. There are just as many white trash as there are ghetto thugs; there are just as many ghetto thugs as there are latino bangers. why do you single out the "black subculture" (whatever that means) to be eliminated (whatever that means)?

why is this even a racial issue? Seems to be more of an economic issue, and to single out just one race for the problems that effect all poor populations is to totally miss the target.




Bill Cosby is a great man for coming out and denouncing the ghetto thug lifestyle that so many in the mainstream urban culture glorify. of course, he was immediatley labeled an "uncle tom" for stating his views and trying to change black culture for the better. i applaud him for actually coming out and denouncing this garbage that most black youth idolize.
i hate white trash just as much as i can't stand thug blacks or gang banging latinos. you're right, every race has its filth. white people can't actually slam the black sub-culture (which is rap subculture, not hip-hop but gangsta rap) without being labeled racist. luckily Cosby, a man who came from worse conditions than most blacks are raised in today, has the balls to speak up.
/rant  :tongue:

Edit: incase anybody thinks i'm out of line, i have black friends who i've heard critisize black ghetto culture far worse than anything i've said here. i'm in no way racist towards anybody.


--------------------
http://www.infowars.com

Edited by synthesis (07/23/04 12:34 PM)

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: synthesis]
    #2920592 - 07/23/04 01:21 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

did I say anything about racism? In fact, I want to get away from race because it clouds this issue.

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Invisiblesynthesis
everydayjunglist

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 398
Loc: va
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: Vvellum]
    #2920613 - 07/23/04 01:29 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

i'm not talking about racism either. i would also applaud a white person that spoke out against white trash rednecks.


--------------------
http://www.infowars.com

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Anonymous

Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: synthesis]
    #2920629 - 07/23/04 01:34 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:

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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: Vvellum]
    #2921719 - 07/23/04 06:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


As a hiphop fan, I'd say that the music is the reflection of the current conditions of the urban life (not "black culture" as I pointed out - hiphop is not just a black thing - that is ignorant).




Do you think that "hip hop" music is more representative of the lives of black people in the "urban life", or white people? If I were to count the awards handed out at hip-hop award shows, wouldn't they be mainly to people of color?
Quote:


I'd say the music is not the cause of these problems. Hiphop isnt the reason why daddy is in prison. Hiphop isnt the reason why the manufacturing plant down the road just shut down and laid a thousand off. Hiphop isnt the reason for crack addiction. Hiphop isnt the reason why the schools are not learning institutions but rather daycares.




When a form of music encourages a certain lifestyle it should have some, but not all, of the blame levelled at it.
Quote:


do some hiphop artists glorify these urban plagues? Some do, most dont. But regardless, where are the parents to turn off the stereo if that's the case?




We aren't discussing the effect on the target audience, per se, we are discussing the fact that hip hop and mainstream culture encourages role models that are not positive. They perpetuate the exact stereotypes that black people shouldn't be falling into. When black kids growing up in the ghetto see that the only sucessful black men that the media fixates on are either rappers or athletes it sends a clear signal that that is the only way for blacks to get ahead. The NAACP awards even go along with this, giving the majority of their awards to such bastions of culture as R Kelly and other "rappers". Hip Hop culture encourages a lifestyle devoid of morality, where women are "bitches" or "ho"s, meant to be simply used for sexual gratification by a "pimp" or a "playa".
Quote:


why target just the music? These problems run deeper...




Of course they do. Noone is saying that it's simply the fault of the music.
Quote:


Also, earlier I pointed out that the same problems that affect black communities also affect poor white communities - is hiphop also to blame?




The crime statistics for impoverished black regions and cities are much higher than impoverished white areas. Not too many drive by shootings over crack cocaine at the trailer parks.
Quote:


um, no. is it rock music? um, no. is heavy metal the reason why white middle class teenagers kill themselves? um, no. Did Marilyn Mansion make Kleboid and Harris shoot up their school? Give me a break.




Were the Turner Diaries "the reason" why McVeigh and Nichols destroyed the AEM Federal Building? No. Were they a blueprint, a printed suggestion and encouragment of those actions? Yes.

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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2922020 - 07/23/04 08:14 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Did anyone ever answer bio's question:
Quote:

Bob Costas (why is he such an authority on hiphop culture anyways




?

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Invisiblesynthesis
everydayjunglist

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 398
Loc: va
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: Tao]
    #2922126 - 07/23/04 08:45 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TaoTeChing said:
Did anyone ever answer bio's question:
Quote:

Bob Costas (why is he such an authority on hiphop culture anyways




?




what, does the fact that he's not a black male and is a white sportscaster make his comments any less valid?? i guess only black people are allowed to criticize their own culture.  :rolleyes: nobody is saying he is the "authority" on hiphop.


--------------------
http://www.infowars.com

Edited by synthesis (07/23/04 08:51 PM)

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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: synthesis]
    #2922150 - 07/23/04 08:53 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

the thread was presented as if it was.

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: retread]
    #2922159 - 07/23/04 08:57 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Do you think that "hip hop" music is more representative of the lives of black people in the "urban life", or white people?




Hiphop represents urban culture, not black culture.

Quote:

If I were to count the awards handed out at hip-hop award shows, wouldn't they be mainly to people of color?




Yes, but not all.

Quote:

we are discussing the fact that hip hop and mainstream culture encourages role models that are not positive.




Why should hiphop artists (or musicians in general) be role models in the first place? where are the parents? Would you consider the members of Slipknot to be role models for the entire white race? Sounds silly, right?

Quote:

When black kids growing up in the ghetto see that the only sucessful black men that the media fixates on are either rappers or athletes it sends a clear signal that that is the only way for blacks to get ahead.




And whose fault is this? If the media is indeed fixated on just musicians and athletes, I would blame the media itself not the athletes and artists.

If "black kids growing up in the ghetto" have such narrow sights so as to only see being a rapper or athlete as being the only paths toward success, who's fault is it? I would blame the parents, the media, the schools, and the individuals first.

Quote:

The NAACP awards even go along with this, giving the majority of their awards to such bastions of culture as R Kelly and other "rappers".




I am not versed on NAACP awards nor do I pay any attention, so I am ignorant on the subject. Just what award did Nelly receive and what were the reasons?

Quote:

Hip Hop culture encourages a lifestyle devoid of morality, where women are "bitches" or "ho"s, meant to be simply used for sexual gratification by a "pimp" or a "playa".




How familiar are you with hiphop anyways besides just what is played on Viacomm's MTV? Just curious, because if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that not all hiphop -not even a majority- promotes anything of the kind. In fact, most hiphop is positive. Not sure if you live in an area where such events occur, but perhaps you should look into going to a bboy competition - they happen in my city on a monthly basis. You'll see very positive and uplifting things going on.

Also, just how moral is rock music for that matter if being sexist means being immoral? Last time I checked, there were plenty of scanty-clad females in rock videos, groupie culture was a staple in rock tours, and getting wasted and fucking whatever girl came along was a behavior of rockstars. Why do you target just hiphop?

Quote:

Noone is saying that it's simply the fault of the music.




...but ya'll are sure fixated much more on hiphop than poverty, unemployment, terrible public schools, and the breakdown of the family unit. I am just curious why - seems like hiphop is completely and utterly overshadowed by these highly-influencial and shaping elements.

Quote:


The crime statistics for impoverished black regions and cities are much higher than impoverished white areas.




Let's see your souces that say impoverish black communities have much higher crime rates than impoverished white areas. I'd say they are probably about the same just of a different set of criminal acts.

Quote:

Not too many drive by shootings over crack cocaine at the trailer parks.




...but plenty of meth heads breaking into houses to steal VCRs with a gun in hand. Plenty of child molestation. Plenty of wife beating.

Quote:

Were the Turner Diaries "the reason" why McVeigh and Nichols destroyed the AEM Federal Building? No. Were they a blueprint, a printed suggestion and encouragment of those actions? Yes.




Should William Pierce be held accountable for the actions of others? No. Something tells me McVeigh and his white-supremist friends would have probably still killed people even if they never had read that book - perhaps it wouldnt have been a truckbomb, but it would have been something else.

A few years ago, a few dumb white kids did what they saw on Jackass - should the producers and stars of Jackass be held accountable and sued for the actions of others?

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: synthesis]
    #2922165 - 07/23/04 09:01 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

what, does the fact that he's not a black male and is a white sportscaster make his comments any less valid?? i guess only black people are allowed to criticize their own culture. nobody is saying he is the "authority" on hiphop.




Who said only black people can criticize black culture?

Bob Costas is certainly not a authoriity on hiphop culture, therefore his opinion shouldnt be held with much credibility. Should I ask the local grocery store clerk whether or not to sell my Cisco Systems stock?

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Bob Costas on Hip Hop Culture [Re: synthesis]
    #2922168 - 07/23/04 09:03 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i would also applaud a white person that spoke out against white trash rednecks.




Would you speak out against Slipknot for not being good role models for the children of the entire white race?

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