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Offlinecoralrives
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2913656 - 07/21/04 09:43 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

It is also common sense that some debt is good debt, (Like the Mortgage).. Also, sometimes one needs to spend money to make money, no?


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2913662 - 07/21/04 09:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coralrives said:

President Bush's FY 2005 budget is another clear indication that the President remains focused on winning the War on Terror and protecting the homeland, while maintaining strong economic growth and cutting the deficit in half in five years. President Bush has consistently adopted budgets that reduce the rate of discretionary spending.

Non-Defense, Non-Homeland Discretionary spending under George W. Bush

15 percent in 2001 (Proposed by President Clinton)
6 percent in 2002
5 percent in 2003
4 percent in 2004
0.5 percent for 2005



That looked a little odd to me until I noticed it said "Non-Defense, Non-Homeland Discretionary." As for the first term, Bush's "defense" strategy appears to be about invading a country which poses no threat to us, and alienating potential allies, thus ensuring that we are left to pay for most of it. As for "Non-Homeland Discretionary spending," could you please define for me what that means? I doubt even you know.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2913668 - 07/21/04 09:47 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coralrives said:
It is also common sense that some debt is good debt, (Like the Mortgage).. Also, sometimes one needs to spend money to make money, no?



I have no problem with investment. But what does that have to do with Bush's spending habits?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinecoralrives
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Registered: 05/22/04
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2913704 - 07/21/04 10:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

coralrives said:

President Bush's FY 2005 budget is another clear indication that the President remains focused on winning the War on Terror and protecting the homeland, while maintaining strong economic growth and cutting the deficit in half in five years. President Bush has consistently adopted budgets that reduce the rate of discretionary spending.

Non-Defense, Non-Homeland Discretionary spending under George W. Bush

15 percent in 2001 (Proposed by President Clinton)
6 percent in 2002
5 percent in 2003
4 percent in 2004
0.5 percent for 2005



That looked a little odd to me until I noticed it said "Non-Defense, Non-Homeland Discretionary." As for the first term, Bush's "defense" strategy appears to be about invading a country which poses no threat to us, and alienating potential allies, thus ensuring that we are left to pay for most of it. As for "Non-Homeland Discretionary spending," could you please define for me what that means? I doubt even you know.




Non Discretionary is: money that doesn't go for defense spending, nor is it spent at home, and it's not a requirement like paying off debt we owe other countries. I.E. food programs for other countries


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2913715 - 07/21/04 10:03 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The economy is growing stronger. Factories are busier, families are earning more, homeownership continues to rise, and people are finding work.


Economic growth since last summer has been the fastest in nearly 20 years.

After-tax incomes are up by 11% since December 2000-substantially faster growth than following the last recession, and household wealth is near an all-time high.

Inflation is low and interest rates and mortgage rates are near historic lows.

The homeownership rate is at a record high. Minority homeownership is at its highest rate ever.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose by 25% in 2003, and the NASDAQ rose by 50%.


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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Anonymous

Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2913825 - 07/21/04 10:32 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
nope. I like the government in it's structure but not the leaders we have today.




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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2914847 - 07/22/04 05:17 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coralrives said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

coralrives said:

President Bush's FY 2005 budget is another clear indication that the President remains focused on winning the War on Terror and protecting the homeland, while maintaining strong economic growth and cutting the deficit in half in five years. President Bush has consistently adopted budgets that reduce the rate of discretionary spending.

Non-Defense, Non-Homeland Discretionary spending under George W. Bush

15 percent in 2001 (Proposed by President Clinton)
6 percent in 2002
5 percent in 2003
4 percent in 2004
0.5 percent for 2005



That looked a little odd to me until I noticed it said "Non-Defense, Non-Homeland Discretionary." As for the first term, Bush's "defense" strategy appears to be about invading a country which poses no threat to us, and alienating potential allies, thus ensuring that we are left to pay for most of it. As for "Non-Homeland Discretionary spending," could you please define for me what that means? I doubt even you know.




Non Discretionary is: money that doesn't go for defense spending, nor is it spent at home, and it's not a requirement like paying off debt we owe other countries. I.E. food programs for other countries



Well, considering that he hasn't vetoed a single spending bill yet, I can only assume that spending in the area and defense rose dramatically.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2914849 - 07/22/04 05:18 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coralrives said:
The economy is growing stronger. Factories are busier, families are earning more, homeownership continues to rise, and people are finding work.


Economic growth since last summer has been the fastest in nearly 20 years.

After-tax incomes are up by 11% since December 2000-substantially faster growth than following the last recession, and household wealth is near an all-time high.

Inflation is low and interest rates and mortgage rates are near historic lows.

The homeownership rate is at a record high. Minority homeownership is at its highest rate ever.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose by 25% in 2003, and the NASDAQ rose by 50%.



I'd like to see your source on this, though I'm guessing it's www.georgewbush.com.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinecoralrives
Adventurer

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2915175 - 07/22/04 10:14 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

coralrives said:
The economy is growing stronger. Factories are busier, families are earning more, homeownership continues to rise, and people are finding work.


Economic growth since last summer has been the fastest in nearly 20 years.

After-tax incomes are up by 11% since December 2000-substantially faster growth than following the last recession, and household wealth is near an all-time high.

Inflation is low and interest rates and mortgage rates are near historic lows.

The homeownership rate is at a record high. Minority homeownership is at its highest rate ever.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose by 25% in 2003, and the NASDAQ rose by 50%.



I'd like to see your source on this, though I'm guessing it's www.georgewbush.com.




Find me a contradictory report then smart guy..... I deal in facts.


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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Offlinecoralrives
Adventurer

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2915185 - 07/22/04 10:19 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coralrives said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

coralrives said:

As for "Non-Homeland Discretionary spending," could you please define for me what that means? I doubt even you know.




Non Discretionary is: money that doesn't go for defense spending, nor is it spent at home, and it's not a requirement like paying off debt we owe other countries. I.E. food programs for other countries




Next time you question my intelligence, remember it was YOU that allowed his gaping asshole to be photographed and displayed on this web site. Smart ass


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2915199 - 07/22/04 10:26 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Read the forum rules. No flaming. Address the issues raised by the poster, not your perception of the poster.

pinky


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2915359 - 07/22/04 11:44 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coralrives said:
It is also common sense that some debt is good debt, (Like the Mortgage).. Also, sometimes one needs to spend money to make money, no?



Debt is only good when the cost of borrowing money is less than the return on the investment. Government debt (contrary to liberal thinking and now apparently neo-con thinking) is NOT investment, government does not sell a product or service on the open market, government does not return a profit to any investors, government takes money from people via coercive means and spends it on others. George Bush's profligate spending is not investment. By monetizing the debt, Mr. Bush and the federal reserve have increased the money supply (inflation), in effect levying a tax on every dollar in circulation and this leads to price inflation. Regarding mortgages; a purchase of a house is considered a good idea when you can sell the house in the future at a higher price than you paid for it adjusted for inflation. What will the federal government be selling in the future at a higher price than it paid? When you purchase a house on a 30 year mortgage, you are not making a good investment, the bank is (think about total pay-out, not purchase price). Additionally, service on mortgage debt is tax deductible, how does the federal government handle the service on it's debt? By future tax receipts. When the government goes into debt, it is taxation on future generations of taxpayers without representation.

Do not believe the government's CPI - it is incomplete, it does not reflect the true costs of living and is a political tool. Prices for fuel, food and housing have been rising tremendously, having to raise a family and buy essentials makes this apparent to some of us. We are currently in the midst of a real estate housing bubble (no doubt greatly helped along by monetary inflation and artificially low interest rates), the long term prognosis is not good.

Unemployement figures only reflect an estimate of those who are considered by the government to be seeking employment. If your unemployment benefits run out and you go on welfare, you are no longer considered unemployed. With the largest prison population per capita in the developed world, U.S. unemployment figures are further distorted. If you get popped for shrooms and get sentenced to prison, you are not considered unemployed even though you are. If you have a swarthy appearence, express disdain for the U.S. government's foreign policy and get thrown into a jail without charges being filed, you are not considered unemployed even though you are. How do we pay for the maintainence of our prison nation? By taxation and debt upon those who are still employed.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinecoralrives
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Registered: 05/22/04
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: Evolving]
    #2915451 - 07/22/04 12:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Some economists and policymakers argue for a BALANCED BUDGET. Others say that a persistent DEFICIT (public spending exceeding revenue) is acceptable provided, in accordance with the GOLDEN RULE, the deficit is used for INVESTMENT (in INFRASTRUCTURE, say) rather than CONSUMPTION. However, there may be a danger that public-sector investment will result in the CROWDING OUT of more productive private investment. Whatever the overall stance on average over an economic cycle, most economists agree that fiscal policy should be counter-cyclical, aiming to automatically stabilise demand by increasing public spending relative to revenue when the economy is struggling and increasing taxes relative to spending towards the top of the cycle. For instance, social (WELFARE) handouts from the state usually increase during tough times, and fiscal drag boosts government revenue when the economy is growing.

Government CAN invest.


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2915455 - 07/22/04 12:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

NATIONAL DEBT
The total outstanding borrowing of a country?s GOVERNMENT (usually including national and local government). It is often described as a burden, although public DEBT may have economic benefits (see BALANCED BUDGET, FISCAL POLICY and GOLDEN RULE). Certainly, debt incurred by one generation may become a heavy burden for later generations, especially if the MONEY borrowed is not invested wisely. The national debt is a total of all the money ever raised by a government that has yet to be paid off; this is very different from an annual public-sector budget DEFICIT. In 1999, the American government celebrated a huge budget surplus, yet the country still had a national debt equal to nearly half its GDP.


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2915489 - 07/22/04 12:28 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinecoralrives
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Registered: 05/22/04
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2915526 - 07/22/04 12:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I can site you 5 links to dispute everyone of yours. What does that prove other than you can use a search engine, also you like CNN? LOL


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2915550 - 07/22/04 12:41 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)


Today, the government released new jobs figures for states across the country - and the news shows steady gains. June's employment data indicate that the President's economic policies are creating jobs and driving steady economic growth, but there is still more work to be done.

The President understands that many Americans are working hard to make ends meet. That is why he continues to push for pro-growth policies that will strengthen our economy, create more jobs, lower health care costs, and raise Americans' standard of living.

According to statistics released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), job creation was up in 46 of the 50 states in the last year, and the unemployment rate was down in all regions and in 47 of the 50 states.

Nationwide, the economy has posted steady job gains for each of the last ten months - creating more than 1.5 million jobs since August. According to statistics released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), 112,000 new jobs were created in June.

The national unemployment rate stayed constant at 5.6% in June - down 0.7 percentage point from a peak of 6.3% a year ago. At 5.6%, the unemployment rate is below the average of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

The manufacturing industry, which was the hardest hit by the economic downturn, is beginning to see a recovery. National manufacturing employment is up by 64,000 jobs since its low in January. The ISM Manufacturing survey's employment index reached a 30-year high in May and remained strong in June, indicating strong further gains in manufacturing employment in the months ahead.

Unemployment rates have fallen across all levels of education, races, and ages over the past year.

For people without a college degree, the unemployment rate is down by 0.7 percentage point.

For both African-Americans and Latinos, the unemployment rate is down by 1.5 percentage points.

For teenagers, the unemployment rate is down by 2.2 percentage points.


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2915561 - 07/22/04 12:43 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

One of the few rules on this forum is that you provide sources where needed. I suggest you start doing it.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2915563 - 07/22/04 12:44 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Funny thing is now we're hearing, "EMPOWERING JOBS" from the leftist in here. So what, jobs arent good enough now, it has to be "empowering jobs??? You guys kill me.


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Do you "like" the US government? [Re: coralrives]
    #2915647 - 07/22/04 01:12 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coralrives said:
Government CAN invest.



Really?

Try answering a few questions:

1) What's the return on investment?

2) How are dividends paid out?

3) What is the U.S. government investing in under Bush that will provide us with material returns?

4) How much longer can the U.S. go into debt before there are repercussions?

5) What happens when foreigners decide to stop buying U.S. government debt instruments? Who will buy the debt then?

6) Is it right for those living in the present to make future taxpayers pay for the excesses being enjoyed now?

7) Could you please tell us why the following is a good thing? According to The Bureau of Labor Statistics the average hourly worker earned $521.73 per week in 2003, (the 12 months ending in June). During the same period a year later, he earned an average of $524.37. The last figure is only 0.5% greater than the first. Meanwhile, the CPI rose by more than 3% during the same period.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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