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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST
    #290971 -

Teonan, that is an awful lot of writting to saying nothing at all.


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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: holographic mind]
    #291050 -

holographic people with no ambition are useless, your DADDY probably thinks the same, hat exactly are you here for again?? except TO draw lines on your screen thinking that they are words?? COME and play holographic

you are backwards today holographic...

B Leu B oxo


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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST
    #291057 -

teonan so if take spores from two different strains and mix them in a syringe, and pour them in petri dishes w/ agar...99.9% of them will not fruit? how do i know which of the spores are monykarons?

B Leu B oxo


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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #291119 -

Bleuboxo I am no expert either, but you I think that you need to isolate a single spore from each strain of mushroom and grow them together. And even if you manage to do this there is no guarantee that the new strain you produced will be a good one, it might not even fruit. But I guess you can try, mabey you will create a new "super strain".

Good Luck



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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Humidity]
    #291154 -

i will try ofcourse and i will try for a very long time until i have found out the way to do it. teonan---this is what ive got so far, all i need is the information my life is very boring sitting around the house and cultivating mushrooms and working. thats about it. i have plenty of time to try experiments. there are two kinds of spores--monokaryotic and dikaryons---i need to find the monokaryotic spores of two strains and grow them together, fruit them, and try them. if im lucky anyways ill still be responsible for making up a new strain, you can bet that all the spore vendors will have that strain to sell. im very confident about my work as im sure most people are i just like to take a little more time than most people on accomplishing the things i want to get done.

if there is a way in there is a way out, unless someone locked you in a mental faculty then i guess you are stuck like my father. good luck to everybody---$1,000 CASH to anybody who makes a new strain and you have my signature on the bottom. PEACE

B Leu B oxo


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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #291588 -

You might want to head out to the library and read about fungal biology and physiology. I have glanced over some info on this stuff. I belive that all spores produce monokarytic mycellium, when two monokarytic mycellums come together they form a dikarotic mycellum. Like I said there is a lot of info on this at the library just go there and read. I will go sometime in the near future and see if I can dig up some accurate info for you.



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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #291731 -

Man you must have alot of time!!!! When a spore germinates it is a monokaryon, it has one nucleus. This monokaryon will mate with compatible monokaryons, undergo karyogamy and form a dikaryon, the dikaryon if you are lucky enough will grow up and produce fruiting bodies. I never said 99 % would not fruit. A lot of them will fruit. It is just a long process. You have to first dilute the spores a hell of a lot, each strain seperately, germinate them and isolate individual monokaryons. These individuals have to be put together and see if they mate to form dikaryons. 3/4 of the spores will mate outside their spore race. The problem is some will be false matings, producing non fruiting dikaryons, the rest will be an assortment of good, bad, and worse fruiters. Imagine testing 100- 1000's- 10,000 strains. If you just mixed two different spore races in the same syringe, the same thing will happen, but some of the resulting strains will resemble each parent spore race, and some will be different. The problem is who cares. These vendors are selling spore races, not strains. You buy a Gulf coast cubensis print, because that is the Geographical location, from where it came. If you crossed it with a Tai strain, the offspring aren't going to be exceptionaly different. Most breeding work is done to enhance growth characteristics, thickness of fruits, etc.. Obtaining a higher yielding strain. But once the strain is produced, it can only be distributed as a culture not a print.
If you really want to do some culture work, get a print of mexicana from sporeworks, and do some breeding to obtain a strain that will produce sclerotia in vitro. This would be a better use of your free time. Some where in the genetics of these spores exists a monokaryon that is compatible with one of it's siblings, that will mate to produce a Dikaryon that will be one of those legendary strains.


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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: ]
    #291906 -

teonan thanks for all the information. ive heard alot about crossbreeding and it seems to be alot of work. this is my last question, im interested in the second paragragh about the mexicana strain.

i have to fruit them and clone a mexicana species that will produce sclerotia....after that i have to find two monokaryons and mate them with eachother from the same species? and if im lucky this will fruit...correct?>

B Leu B oxo


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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #291974 -

No, people are having trouble isolating a strain from the mexicana that produce sclerotia invitro. I'm suggesting, that if you want to try breeding, this would be a good canidate for any attempts. Germinate spores, isolate the monokaryons, and try breeding them to find that special strain.


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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: ]
    #292999 -

Buy the TMC, it has a section on genetics and one on breeding. That will clear up a lot of the misinformation and myths I've read here. Actually, you could just search these boards. You might find more misinformation, but you will also likely find nearly everything that's in TMC.....

But it's only like 16.95 if you shop around....

"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi (also a registered mad scientist tm)


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: mycofile]
    #293049 -

ive heard alot on that book, do they have it in libraries? i wanted to purchase it but is that book really worth buying? i know stamets is the god of cultivating but alot of people know their stuff on this website and ive gotten some really good advice thats helped me out alot.

B Leu B oxo


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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #293122 -

first of all, how far as your classic education come along?
university? college? community college? high school?
that makes a big difference as to what methods are available to you.
second, read TMC, GGMM, a good genetics book, a good biology book, and perhaps a good chemestry book.. a genetics lab procedure book wouldnt hurt.
if you attend a univeristy, put in a request to make use of the mycology lab, practice with legal fungus first: imagine a garden giant X portobella.. <although this is highly improbable..
there are two approaches that you may try:
rather than use large petri dishes, use smaller containers (you can get squares or "mini" pitri dishes).
isolate single spores from each strain, place in close proximity to each other on the medium.
incubate apropriately, visually observe result.
staments has pictures of quicker tests that can be run to determine the ability of strains/species to exchange genetic information.
second:
as with the cloneing process used to create "dolly", you can manufacture a false nucleus with both sets of genetic information, and implant into a single mycelium cell from which the previous nucleus has been removed. personally i doubt that this is fesable with current methods for fungus, however it has been proven functional with sheep, and humans.

im guessing you will never do either of these, judgeing by the manner in which you asked these questions.





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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: mycofile]
    #293123 -

Mycofile what misinformation are you refering to. The TMC has very little info on breeding. Better sources would be books and journals on mushroom breeding from an Agricultural University. But the TMC is a must read for anyone interested in propagating any Funny mushroom.

KARYOGAMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehhehehehe
Sometimes I wonder who is really on this site!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Teonan on 04/15/01 01:26 AM.


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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: ]
    #293402 -

well for one, things like:

"there are two kinds of spores--monokaryotic and dikaryons---i need to find the monokaryotic spores of two strains and grow them together, fruit them, and try them."

Aren't uncommon to read on these boards.

The general intro chapters from TMC would clear things like that up.

I wasn't trying to imply that somebody in this thread was trying to spread misinfo, but simply that a lot of it can be read on these boards.

Granted the section on breeding in TMC isn't very long, but it contains a lot of information. More than enough to come up with a workable mindset and plan.

Yes there are better sources, but this guy sounds like he needs to read TMC anyway, and journals aren't gonna give him the basics he needs.


"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi (also a registered mad scientist tm)


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: mycofile]
    #293435 -

oh i see, mmmm hmmmmm.....so i have to do EXACTLY THIS: " there are two kinds of spores--monokaryotic and dikaryons--i need to find the monokaryotic spores of two strains and grow them together, fruit them, and try them. " but ive never seen this one posted!!!!!! how is it not uncommon??? I THINK I ASKED THAT!!!!!! its glad to SEE YOU agree with me mycophile. i CAN BE SUCH a NERD sometimes!!! =) haha. no misinfo at all im reading you loud and clear MAD SCIENTIST!!!!!! im glad i post all this great information so people can read and learn!!!! MY AIM IS TO SATIFY BLEUBOXO--yes i think paul stamets defintley need to read that book, i HIGHLY FUCKIN DOUBT YOU cares about journals!! he ARE a very SMART guy but the journals suck...ANYWAYS, tell me more about your surfing abilities, DONT YOU? i LOVE MY job!!!

ps.which POINT OF VIEW??

B Leu B oxo


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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #293436 -

"oh by THE way....chesire...."

i am in college, taking some classes on how to CONTROL satellites. but this crossbreeding stuff SOUNDS pretty hard so i think ill give it awhil...it IS confusing isnt it mad scientist??e before i can be PICKING UP the ways of science.............

p.s. im registring my NEW signature....here it is......SIGNALS
goodbye and hello

B Leu B oxo


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" Insanity is just a thread of reality...the make-as-you-go part of living, the bare second reflex of dying _Stavros Christou... by_"

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #328647 -

I was not saying that people were not in college, i was asking who was.. there are alot of high schoolers here who *think they know everything..

sattelite controll? didnt know that was a major...
if so, i have a few quick Q's for you..
What are the transponders on G3R? in what orbit is it located?
what about G11 and GE1? what are they differences?
hmmm
:P
and anyway, technilogical and biological are somewhat disparate fields.. they do not necessarily cross over..
im a dork too.. but ive spent a fair amount of time in biological labs..




--------------------
If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: DinoMyc]
    #328668 -

DinoMyc.. I would agree.. anyone in college is at a disadvantage. Paying loads of dough to learn decades old technology. It's a farce. Best bet is to keep up w/ current journals. They're in most college libraries but not usually part of any curriculum.

* Do the Free Spore Thing


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Where there's skill, there's a better way..

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: egghead]
    #328695 -

hmmm...obviously Ive never attempted this, but I think a crossbreeding program would go something like this...first, dilute 1 or 2 drops from a standard spore syringe into about 150ml sterile water, use this to make 10 or so syringes, do this for each of your 2 strains...innoculate 100 or so petris for each strain, incubate...at first sign of germination, subculture all germination points to seperate petris...at 2-3 germination points in each petri, you could easily end up w/ 200+ petris for each of 2 strains...once these start to colonize, you will need to make backups, at least 3-4 petris of each isolate to prevent loss from contams, etc...this will give you 600+ petris for each strain, a total of over 1200 petris...at this point you will need a high power microscope and the ability to make good slides...make a slide of each isolate & check for clamp connections...if these are present, the isolate is dikaryon, monokaryons will not have clamp connections...throw out dikaryons, keep monokaryons...this will somewhat reduce your petri collection...now the fun part...once your monokaryon isolates have colonized, subculture isolates of the 2 strains together in the same petri...make 3-4 petris for each attempted mating for backups...once these start to colonize, subculture the mated mycellium into yet more petris w/ backups...once again, make slides of each culture & check them w/ the microscope for clamp connections, which indicate a dikaryon which hopefully has the ability to fruit...throw out any cultures lacking clamp connections...now you can innoculate each culture into 3-4 half pints of sterilized grain or etc...obviously this will give you a fair number of jars...let colonize, leave substrate in jars & case, put into fruiting chambers...probably 3-4 large rubbermaid tubs w/ inviromental controls would be sufficient...hopefully most of these will fruit, clone the best 10 fruiting strains onto multiple petris...innoculate these into 3-4 quarts of sterilized grain or etc, let colonize, case & fruit in trays, use several trays per strain for backup...check for eveness of pinset, spore production, yield, etc...keep subculturing & fruiting until you are left w/ one very exceptional fruiting strain, make multiple culture slants & store...congratulations, you now have a hybrid strain! Obviously this is a hell of a lot of work & a major pain in the ass... I can only see people going through all this to create a "supersrain" of oysters or etc for extreme big-time commercial production...But, if you have loads of time & money to burn, wtf, right? peace


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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: solidstate]
    #329463 -

One should not make that much petri's.
If you dillute a single strain like -1, -2, -3, -4, -5 and put the last three on agar, you can count the spores wich grow, so when having found the concentration of spores dillute until having 1spore/ml. This has to be put on agar several times. This has 2 be done with the other strain 2 and put on agar on the other strain.

_________________________________________
Don't look at me, I didn't do it!!


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_________________________________________
I support the go.to/FreeSporeRing
Email me at [email]nononsense@shroomery.org[/email

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: nononsense]
    #329550 -

yep, but you will still need a fair number of matings to be sure of getting a good fruiting strain...the above is the not fucking around here, take no prisoners, hybrid strain to end all hybrid strains approach...obviously it could be scaled down some for more modest aspirations, but youre still gonna need a microscope & lots of petris


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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST
    #329602 -

hehe, nevermind... I'm wrong about the phantasia mystery strain ; ) hehe, oh well... good luck

"Now chew em up and slam the orange juice. Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face."

Long Live The Free Spore Ring!


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Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: solidstate]
    #330105 -

Solidstate gets an A in mushroom breeding, everyone else gets a C- and worse. Good post Solidstate. This is ecxactly how one would determine a mushrooms reproductive scheme. It is also how one would develope hybrids between spore races, and also how one would develope a single strain that has specific qualities. Doubt anyone will attempt, but damn good post.


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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: mycofile]
    #330243 -

see trademlets hybridistauion tek at Mystical mycology australia
www.shaman-australis.com

whats so frikking hard about serial dilutions anyway?
there are definitely reasons for hybridising strains such as

potency
substrate adaptability (lignous cubes and B+ with its ability to eat anything)
in vitro pinning (matias romero)
fast growth (cambos)
size (aussie and indian cubes)

i intend to try it myself. all you are going to need is lots of petri dishes and sterile transfer areas.
you would be attempting to create a new spore race - that is a number of confirmed F1 hybrids between
the strains that are then grown for successive generation allowing emergence of a new strain.you can select out for 2 chracteristics one from each parent eg in vitro pinning (MR) and Substrate adapt (B+)
fairly simple id say
with a good labelling system you could link the traits to specific monokaryons which gives you the ability to
create real strains
see books by chang et al and stamets and chilton as well as the trade omlet tek

Want to trade? edibles and psychoactives, spores and slants.


--------------------
visit the Australasian free seed ring
www.shaman-australis.com.au/seedring

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Bleuboxo]
    #330654 -

For some reason I see a 96 well plate coming in handy here.

E.g. using watchmaker-type tweezers [or a robot] to pick out the monokaryons, put two in each little well.

The resulting opacity/speed of growth should give you a minimal idea of vigor, then maybe you can reisolate and fruit only the best wells.
This might save on agar plates and working area, you could use a minimal medium [low contam potential] in your 96 well plate.

Man, what a pain, no matter how you look at it. It's possible, though.

I only eat veils

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Suntzu]
    #331315 -

1 points worth repeating that have been mad in literature is that vigour in monokaryons doesnt mean much so selecting for that can be detrimental
im trying to innoculate a local vet paddock with shrooms many strains hopefully these and hybrids of thes wil then be spread around the district as most herds would have one or more of their members go through it :)

Want to trade? edibles and psychoactives, spores and slants.


--------------------
visit the Australasian free seed ring
www.shaman-australis.com.au/seedring

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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST
    #331346 -
Log in to view attachment

and this


isolate single spores-

Edited by Triple_3 on 06/01/01 06:17 AM.



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Re: CROSSBREEDING CONTEST [Re: Triple_3]
    #331348 -
Log in to view attachment

need a microscope... =)

agree with mycophile read TMC


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