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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin
    #2908438 - 07/20/04 12:31 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Linda Ronstadt, one of America's most popular vocalists for over three decades, was booted from the Aladdin and physically escorted off the property without even being allowed to return to her hotel room, for dedicating the song "Desperado" to Michael Moore and his film "Farenheit 9/11".

Whatever you think of Moore, this should appall every American here who still believes in Free Speech and opposes fascism. If this irks you as much as it does me, send your thoughts to:

Bill Timmins
President
Aladdin Casino and Hotel
Las Vegas, NV

(sorry - don't know the zip)


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908462 - 07/20/04 12:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

You're just going to end up with a bunch of people bitching that "oh...it's a private business so they have every right to escort her out of the building!" :smirk:

(I agree with you, though)


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Offlinecoralrives
Adventurer

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908463 - 07/20/04 12:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Linda Ronstadt, one of America's most popular vocalists for over three decades, 




:wtf: :eek: :lol: :whoa: :goodluck: :moon: :noway: :drooling: :poop: :rotfl:


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908471 - 07/20/04 12:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Linda Ronstadt, one of America's most popular vocalists for over three decades,




HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
    #2908472 - 07/20/04 12:41 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

You're just going to end up with a bunch of people bitching that "oh...it's a private business so they have every right to escort her out of the building!"




This says a lot about you.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908477 - 07/20/04 12:42 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

If it was my business I would boot her out for just mentioning michael moore.. that guy's a fuck face


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908480 - 07/20/04 12:43 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

The phrase "This says a lot about you" seems to get thrown around here a lot whenever someone doesn't actually have an opinion to post about...but they still feel the need to hit that "reply" button :smirk:

Do you have an opinion about what Swami posted, Innvertigo?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908486 - 07/20/04 12:44 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

She's paid to sing, not to give political endorsments. While I don't think it was all that bad they had every right to ask her to leave.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908496 - 07/20/04 12:46 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Did not say one of Innvertigos' faves now did I?

Your ignorance shows itself yet again. 4 Gold albums and 14 Platinum albums put her in the top 100 best-selling musicians of all time.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
    #2908500 - 07/20/04 12:47 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The phrase "This says a lot about you" seems to get thrown around here a lot whenever someone doesn't actually have an opinion to post about...




I always find it humorous when someone pre-empts an argument with a ill thought out comment like you posted. You said it yourself, it's a private company which gives them the right to hire and fire whoever they want. I thought my opinion was obvious because your comment was so blatantly against private industry.

don't take it personallt, I'm just stating my opinion.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908511 - 07/20/04 12:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

She's paid to sing, not to give political endorsments. While I don't think it was all that bad they had every right to ask her to leave.

Yes they had a legal right, just as the Patriot Act gives the government a legal right to label you a terrorist and hold you incommunicado, so what?

Now lets' imagine the reaction if she said, "I dedicate this song to all our troops in Iraq" and the owner was a pacifist and escorted her out of the building. O'Reilly and Limbaugh would be foaming-at-the-mouth. Wait, that is redundant...


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (07/20/04 12:52 PM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908512 - 07/20/04 12:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Your ignorance shows itself yet again. 4 Gold albums and 14 Platinum albums put her in the top 100 best-selling musicians of all time. 




Yes my ignorance :rolleyes:

I'm not the one telling private industries what they should or shouldn't do Mr. Hitler


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908516 - 07/20/04 12:52 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Actually that isn't my opinion at all...so no your opinion was not obvious in any way :smirk:

Nor was your post "this says a lot about you" in reply to Swami's original post. You started out in this thread with a pointless laugh at the fact that Swami said Linda Ronstadt is one of America's most popular vocalists...which was quite obviously not the point of the thread whatsoever. Then you decide to go further off-topic by taking a jab at me, eh? Beyond that...I'm not here to argue with anyone, let alone you, so don't flatter yourself :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908525 - 07/20/04 12:54 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

An honest man would say, "OK, you got me on the Ronstadt popularity thing, but my opinion on whether or not the owner..."


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908528 - 07/20/04 12:54 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Yes they had a legal right, just as the Patriot Act gives the goevrnment a leagl right to label you a terrorist and hold you incommunicado, so what?




get your head out, this has nothing to do with her being asked to leave.

Quote:

Now lets' imagine the reaction if she said, "I dedicate this song to all our troops in Iraq" and the owner was a pacifist and escorted her out of the building. O'Reilly and Limbaugh would be foaming-at-the-mouth. Wait, that is redundant...




who knows? it all depends on the PRIVATE company that is hiring her. You nor I know what would of happened. I personally wouldn't care, but then again I don't own a Casino.

As a side note that casino, I believe, is close to changing owners soon and Linda may be asked to come back.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinecoralrives
Adventurer

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908542 - 07/20/04 12:58 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Ronstadt, who would go on to sell 50 million albums and win 10 Grammy Awards as a solo artist, left Arizona for L.A. in 1964 as a member of the folk music trio the Stone Poneys. Only 18, her musical horizons were about to be expanded by the budding folk-rock revolution.


I would admit to her record, I just laughed at the thought that she be mentioned as "a top performer." She just never comes up in conversations when someone says, "Ok, who is the top bands in the last 30 years..."

As far as the Aladin goes, good for them. If it was my casino, I'd done the same damn thing.! Poo-poo on them for not letting her go back to her room though...LOL


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
    #2908555 - 07/20/04 01:02 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Nor was your post "this says a lot about you" in reply to Swami's original post. You started out in this thread with a pointless laugh at the fact that Swami said Linda Ronstadt is one of America's most popular vocalists...




I forgot, liberals not only Like Linda Ronstadt, but they lack a sense of humor as well. Pity.

Quote:

Nor was your post "this says a lot about you" in reply to Swami's original post.




Actually that was directed at you, look who I replied to.

Quote:

Then you decide to go further off-topic by taking a jab at me, eh?




You liberals are sooo sensitive, I took no "Jab" at you (did the Arnold "girlie man" thing bother you?). Relax, I disagree with you on just about everything and the more you type the more solid my beliefs become. It's a simple tacktic I see many of you use. You say something philosophically wrong then pre-empt it by sayin "I'll bet they'll say this or that". Listen if you want to debate yourself or other like minded people, stick to the Pub.

Quote:

I'm not here to argue with anyone, let alone you, so don't flatter yourself




There's always the Pub my man.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908558 - 07/20/04 01:03 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

What does this have to do with politics, activism or law?

They had every right to throw her out, (assuming it didn't violate the contract) just like you have every right to bitch about it. If she has a union, they should probably boycott the establishment over this incident.

I hope nobody thinks the government should force businesses to allow speech.


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This space for rent

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908559 - 07/20/04 01:04 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

An honest man would say, "OK, you got me on the Ronstadt popularity thing, but my opinion on whether or not the owner..."




I can't stand her and most people my age or younger can't either. This doesn't take away the fact that she was "once" popular. What has she done in the 90's?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908569 - 07/20/04 01:09 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

You say something philosophically wrong

Please point out the flaw(s) in my "philosophically wrong" points (though I wasn't aware I had made any...) as I do enjoy being wrong (no better way to learn).

I disagree with you on just about everything

Good to know! I can stop wasting my breath...and we can just agree to dissagree, eh?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908572 - 07/20/04 01:12 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Ronstadt sucks musical dick. I would have hired Ozzy Osbourne.

From Drudge Report:
OZZY JOINS BUSH BASH WITH HITLER MONTAGE
Thu Jul 15 2004 11:38:38 ET

Osbourne opened his concert with the song "War Pigs," featuring a video portrait comparing Bush to Adolph Hitler.

The video featured Bush and Hitler on the same screen, with the caption: "Same sh*t different a**hole," says a source. Footage of bombs dropping and Hitler marching flashed as Ozzy screamed and guitars screeched.

Ozzy also flashed a picture of Bush with a clown nose, caption: 'The White House Circus."


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908579 - 07/20/04 01:14 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

get your head out, this has nothing to do with her being asked to leave.

A legal right has nothing to do with a legal right?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
    #2908588 - 07/20/04 01:17 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Please point out the flaw(s) in my "philosophically wrong" points (though I wasn't aware I had made any...)




Your comment about private industries.

Quote:

Good to know! I can stop wasting my breath...and we can just agree to dissagree, eh?




eh? you can stop wasting it if you want, if that's what you consider it. You're not used to people disagreeing with you I see.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2908591 - 07/20/04 01:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I would admit to her record, I just laughed at the thought that she be mentioned as "a top performer."
"Top vocalist" has now magically transformed into "top performer". Record sales speak louder than your opinion.

She just never comes up in conversations when someone says, "Ok, who is the top bands in the last 30 years..."
The world revolves around you and your friends and those of your age group? Try to expand a tiny bit.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908596 - 07/20/04 01:19 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

apples and oranges. Comparing what they did to her (as a private industry) to what the patriot act is, is not even similar.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908610 - 07/20/04 01:22 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Although I don't agree with the Aladdin's decision to hire Linda Ronstadt, I agree with their right to hire her. Although I don't agree with the Aladdin's reason for firing Linda Ronstadt, I agree with their right to fire her.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908614 - 07/20/04 01:23 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

you seem more upset at the fact that noone likes Linda rather than the topic you started. hmmpphh.

what's funny is that I personally wouldn't of cared if I owned the casino, and actually I would of rather had OZZY there as well. I'm just defending the owners right to do what's within his rights. I'm crazy like that.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
    #2908624 - 07/20/04 01:26 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

you're an extremist centrist. :grin:

personally I wish everyone (and that goes for Cons and Libs) would just relaxed and quit being so uptight.  Life's got to suck being that mad and stuffy all day.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinecoralrives
Adventurer

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908628 - 07/20/04 01:26 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I would admit to her record, I just laughed at the thought that she be mentioned as "a top performer."
"Top vocalist" has now magically transformed into "top performer". Record sales speak louder than your opinion.


She just never comes up in conversations when someone says, "Ok, who is the top bands in the last 30 years..."
The world revolves around you and your friends and those of your age group? Try to expand a tiny bit.



Oh, My bad, sorry Mr. Anal Retentive. Hell at least I admitted she has a good track record, (Track record, of course, is a metaphor for her outstanding singing career.)

Thats why I found it funny to ME, ME, yes what I find funny reflects my environment and experiences. If you tried to have some of that, you may find you too have a sense of humor... Good luck with that!
Peace


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908636 - 07/20/04 01:28 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

you seem more upset at the fact that noone likes Linda rather than the topic you started. hmmpphh.

Yet another false assumption. You are batting better than average today with 0 for 3. I do not own, nor have I ever owned a single Ronstadt CD, LP or 45 nor have I seen her in concert. You went off on a tangent with your normal ignorant and ill-researched blather and I corrected it. Get over it.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908662 - 07/20/04 01:35 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

apples and oranges. Comparing what they did to her (as a private industry) to what the patriot act is, is not even similar.

Both are legal acts. Is it that difficult for you to grok?

As a shroomery member, I will assume that you do, or have done, illegal substances. You CAN or could have been arrested for exercising your right to the guaranteed "pursuit of happiness".

You made the point that they had a right because it was legal as if all laws are inherently just and ethical. I concede and have never claimed that they did not have the law "on their side". That does not make it distasteful and inherently against the American ideal of Free Speech.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (07/20/04 01:48 PM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908667 - 07/20/04 01:37 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Yet another false assumption. You are batting better than average today with 0 for 3. I do not own, nor have I ever owned a single Ronstadt CD, LP or 45 




suuuuuuuuure. ok, whatever you say. :wink:

Quote:

You went off on a tangent with your normal ignorant and ill-researched blather and I corrected it. Get over it. 




ouch, that hurts.  Show me how you guys whine because I think this would be an appropriate time to do it.:crying:

I find it hillarious that NONE of you think that the Casino has rights. And as i've said before: That says a lot about you people.  Take that any way you want to.  The only Blather


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
    #2908670 - 07/20/04 01:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Ronstadt sucks musical dick.

*Swami wonders how evolving knows about musical dick...*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2908674 - 07/20/04 01:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Please point out where anyone said that the Casino doesn't have any rights...

Or even where someone said that they don't have the SPECIFIC right to throw out anyone they choose...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2908675 - 07/20/04 01:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Thats why I found it funny to ME, ME, yes what I find funny reflects my environment and experiences. If you tried to have some of that, you may find you too have a sense of humor... Good luck with that!

Start a thread on S&P called "Does Swami have a sense of humor?" and find out for yourself.


--------------------



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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908686 - 07/20/04 01:43 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

first off, it's free spEEch.
Secondly, you may want to research that Bill you are touting. The first amendment. For instance, did you know one cannot state that he will kill the president? If this is done in front of Secret service or other law enforcement, that person can be arrested and charged, LEGALY.
Too, one cannot threaten anothers life, its called assault, not free speech. ONe cannot incite riots, or yell "FIRE" in a movie house....


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908694 - 07/20/04 01:46 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Both are legal acts. Is it that difficult for you to grok?




I'm not debating if they are "legal" rights or not. One has to do with a private industry dictating what goes on within his/her establishment. The other does not. Is that hard for you to grok?

Quote:

As a shroomery member, I will assume that you do, or have done, illegal substances. You CAN or could have been arrested for exercising your right to the guaranteed "pursuit of happiness".




sure have, now you're drifting over la la land. let me know when you want to get back on topic.

Quote:

You made the point that they had a right because it was legal as if all laws are inherently just and ethical.




point to me where I said that all laws are ethical?

Quote:

I concede and have never claimed that they did not have the law "on their side". That does not make it distasteful and inherently against the American ideal of Free Speach.




Performers are "spokspersons" for the venue they are performming at. Apparantly those that are in charge at the Casino were expressing their freedom of speech by asking her to leave. Like I said, I really wouldn't give a shit, but i'm not that owner.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908699 - 07/20/04 01:48 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

if you read the rest of the article you would see that
she practically incited a riot at the show.

If Ice Cube got up on stage at the Staples center and
started throwing up pyru, starting a melee in the venue,
I'd expect them to do the same thing...escort his ass out
of the building.

I don't see why these artists insist on injecting so much
of their politics into their shows...especially someone like
Rondstadt, an artist with barely a leg to stand on, doubly
so when you consider the venue...

shit, how many liberals are going to some second rate
casino show in vegas to see a third rate vocal act?


--------------------
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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
    #2908711 - 07/20/04 01:51 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

especially someone like
Rondstadt, an artist with barely a leg to stand on, doubly
so when you consider the venue...




you're going to have Swami all pissed off now.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2908713 - 07/20/04 01:53 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

first off, it's free spEEch.
(I thought you detested anal retentiveness...) Believe it or not I was eating a peach as I typed that.  :grin:

The first amendment.
This is an incomplete thought and not a sentence.

For instance, did you know one cannot state that he will kill the president? If this is done in front of Secret service or other law enforcement, that person can be arrested and charged, LEGALY.
(Oh, you mean "legally".) Your ever-so-enlightening ramble does not pertain to praising and dedicating a song to a fellow American, now does it?  :rolleyes:


--------------------



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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908716 - 07/20/04 01:53 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Ronstadt sucks musical dick.

*Swami wonders how evolving knows about musical dick...*



I have a musical dick, Linda called it an 'oversized skin flute,' but I wouldn't let her touch it. She did however, play Ronnie James Dio's wind instrument at the same party.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908721 - 07/20/04 01:56 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

LOL, what a boob. I was simply stating, (So you could keep up oh great philosopher of the shroomery, that Free speech isnt all you may think it is. It is not absolute. And as posted above, she may have ticked off the crowd to the point of inciting problems. This debate really has NOTHING to do with the first amendment now does it?


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908723 - 07/20/04 01:57 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Oh and splain to me how this is fascism again would ya genius?


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2908733 - 07/20/04 02:00 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I was simply stating that Free speech isnt all you may think it is.

Why not first ask another poster what they think something is instead of incorrectly guessing?


--------------------



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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908744 - 07/20/04 02:04 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Like you assuming I dont like anal retentivness?

BTW I believe your peach story, thats kinda funny....


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2908748 - 07/20/04 02:05 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Oh and splain to me how this is fascism again would ya genius?

Do you mean to explain the definition? OK, I will pretend you do NOT have internet access and a search engine or incapable of using such.  :rolleyes:

Webster condensed:

Fascism: suppression of the opposition through censorship.


A view opposed to that of the owner was suppressed. Not too difficult, eh?


--------------------



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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908757 - 07/20/04 02:08 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

OK, lets get technical. How is this censorship you peanut? Censorship has to be performed by THE GOVERNMENT. tHIS WAS IN no WAY SHAPE OR FORM CENSORSHIP OR FASCISM. I got a search engine. Lets go


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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Edited by coralrives (07/20/04 02:13 PM)

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908778 - 07/20/04 02:14 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
A view opposed to that of the owner was suppressed.



No, the owner merely refused to provide a forum for LR's views. She is still free to express her views at her own expense of at the expense of those who wish to help her.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2908779 - 07/20/04 02:14 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Am I a peanut or a genius? *Swami gets confused* If you put the two together does that make me a peanius?


--------------------



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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908800 - 07/20/04 02:19 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Am I a peanut or a genius? *Swami gets confused* If you put the two together does that make me a peanius?





A genut?


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
    #2908877 - 07/20/04 02:37 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Webster:

suppress: To curtail or prohibit the activities of.


Doesn't say that suppression must include all possible places for all time. Her activities were certainly curtailed; i.e. cut short; of the planned activities.

P.S. I am buying dictionaries for all shroomery members for Christmas (or at least sending them a link to an online dictionary.)

Casinos have the right to eject anyone at any time for any reason. Can you imagine microphones on the slots:

Dispatcher: Security, see the man, Caucasian 70s, on slot machine #357. He was overheard saying that he thought Kerry was an uptight, self-serving proletariat. Please escort him out.


--------------------



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2908935 - 07/20/04 02:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Linda Ronstadt, one of America's most popular vocalists for over three decades



:wtf:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
    #2908970 - 07/20/04 02:57 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I don't see why these artists insist on injecting so much of their politics into their shows



I'm with you.

While it's their right, I'd just as soon they all shut the fuck up and do what they are being paid to do. Perform.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineTao
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909001 - 07/20/04 03:03 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

if you read the rest of the article you would see that
she practically incited a riot at the show.




:thumbup: exactly.  thats what i was going to say.  read the whole article, swami put it pretty biasedly at the beginning: http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/#3
she's supposed to be an entertainer, but instead of making the casino's guests happy, she extremly angered a lot of them.  thus she miserably failed at her job and should be fired.

Quote:

Now lets' imagine the reaction if she said, "I dedicate this song to all our troops in Iraq" and the owner was a pacifist and escorted her out of the building. O'Reilly and Limbaugh would be foaming-at-the-mouth. Wait, that is redundant...




so let me get this straight.  you're justifying your reaction because you think limbaugh would do the same thing if the situation was reversed? :wtf: WWLD [What Would Limbaugh Do?]

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Tao]
    #2909016 - 07/20/04 03:06 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

WWLD



:rotfl:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909034 - 07/20/04 03:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Webster:

suppress: To curtail or prohibit the activities of.




suppress:
1. suppress, stamp down, inhibit, subdue, conquer, curb -- (to put down by force or authority; "suppress a nascent uprising"; "stamp down on littering"; "conquer one's desires")
2. oppress, suppress, crush -- (come down on or keep down by unjust use of one's authority; "The government oppresses political activists")
3. bottle up, suppress -- (control and refrain from showing; of emotions)
4. restrain, suppress, keep, keep back, hold back -- (keep under control; keep in check; "suppress a smile"; "Keep your temper"; "keep your cool")
5. suppress, repress -- (put out of one's consciousness)

Is it your contention that unless a property owner allows anyone and everyone to use his property as a forum to express ideas which he disagrees with that the owner is suppressing free speech? Sorry, but I'm calling BULLSHIT. Failure to provide support for something or someone that one does not agree with is not the same as suppression. Ms. Ronsdadt is still free to express herself, should we force the Aladdin to provide a forum for her we would be supressing property rights, forcing the Aladdin to subsidize her speech.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Tao]
    #2909043 - 07/20/04 03:12 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Let's get this straight: How many performers over the years do you think offered a political opinion at their show? Of those performers, how many were escorted off the stage? This is extremely rare and hence why it is "news".

(Some of) you guys act as if this is the first performer to ever do such a thing or whether it's relevant that it was Ronstadt or a more current artist.


--------------------



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
    #2909074 - 07/20/04 03:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

It was a dedication. Guess everyone should be escorted out of the Grammys and Emmys and Oscars if they make a dedication to an unpopular person or a person that the venue owner doesn't like.

Perhaps they should be given a list of whom it is acceptable to make a dedication to up front so as to to do the "right thing".


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Tao]
    #2909103 - 07/20/04 03:24 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Doesn't matter that she was a paid performer, the casino still has the right to eject you if they don't like what you say at the craps table or buffet line.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909109 - 07/20/04 03:25 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

or maybe they should consider first what type of reaction
they seek or can expect from the crowd and act accordingly.

TTC hit the nail right on the head, she cause a disturbance
with her *dedication* (if, in fact, that's all it was)

To avoid further problems, they gave her the boot.

This isn't the crime of the century...if anything, it should be
a lesson in `don't bite the hand that feeds you`.

Peronal opinion is one thing, shitting where you eat is another.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Anonymous

Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
    #2909138 - 07/20/04 03:31 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

it's a private business so they have every right to escort her out of the building!

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909146 - 07/20/04 03:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Doesn't matter that she was a paid performer, the casino still has the right to eject you if they don't like what you say at the craps table or buffet line.




If you agree with that statement, then we have nothing more to argue
about in this thread, do we?

If you don't agree with that idea, then can you please explain to me
why it is inappropriate for private businesses to escort people who
pose an immediate or perceived threat to the safety of others off
their premises?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Anonymous

Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909155 - 07/20/04 03:34 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

who's rights have been violated here?

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
    #2909182 - 07/20/04 03:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

You're just going to end up with a bunch of people bitching that "oh...it's a private business so they have every right to escort her out of the building!"

Yup, you were right.

It is always fine if it happens to someone else; just like a LEGAL drug bust where one LEGALLY gets put away for decades.

I didn't realize so many here were such law-abiding citizens in full support of all laws because they are LEGAL.


--------------------



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
    #2909200 - 07/20/04 03:45 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Hundreds of angry fans streamed from the theater as Ronstadt sang. Some of them reportedly defaced posters of her in the lobby, writing comments and tossing drinks on her pictures.

The vandals were not escorted out. An opinion must be worse than damaging property.


--------------------



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909205 - 07/20/04 03:47 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

A lot of those jerk offs were specifically told not to pull any of that stuff at the Oscars. I don't know about the other shows. Listen, this idiot was paid to entertain the clientelle with her singing. The clientelle was there to have a nice evening's escape from reality, a vacation after all. She pissed off a great many of them, who stormed out and threw drinks in their anger at being denied what they had paid for, which was AN ESCAPE. Maybe you'd like it if someone tried to bum you out on a trip with an excess dose of reality.

The owner of the place might agree with her 100% but he still has to answer to his customers. "The customer is always right."

I get paid to build houses. If I suddenly decide to make paper dolls instead I will expect not to be paid. Have my rights to make paper dolls been suppressed?

And another thing, why didn't you mention the customer reaction in your initial post. Seems deceptive and misleading to me, son of Moore.


--------------------

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Anonymous

Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909217 - 07/20/04 03:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I didn't realize so many here were such law-abiding citizens in full support of all laws because they are LEGAL.

drug laws violate rights. i know of no right to be provided with a hotel venue in las vegas at which to perform.

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909228 - 07/20/04 03:52 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

how do you know that none of the vandals were escorted out, fined or otherwise?

because the article dudn't say doesn't count.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
    #2909237 - 07/20/04 03:55 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Anonymous

Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909238 - 07/20/04 03:55 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

if all you are doing is criticizing the casino for their decision, i have to say i agree with you. i don't agree with what they did.

i guess i just assumed (incorrectly?) that you are suggesting that this is somehow a crime, or a violation of ronstadt's rights, or a cue for some kind of government action. if you are suggesting that, i must disagree.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2909247 - 07/20/04 03:59 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Son of Moore? Ha! ha! Just like the false assumptions about Linda. Amazing how so many here are so wrong so often. Never read a Moore book, speech or movie; nor do I have any inclination to do so.

*FLASH* Ronstadt story just on Fox News: announcer says perhaps if she had performed Blue Bayou instead of making politicial comments...

Did you go to the same school of illogic?

If I suddenly decide to make paper dolls instead I will expect not to be paid.
*Yawn* (Strawman argument). She did NOT do something instead; she performed her material (INCLUDING BLUE BAYOU). Most all artists actually talk to the audience during a concert. This is nothing new.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909261 - 07/20/04 04:05 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Explain to me how this qualifies as politics, activism, or law.


--------------------
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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2909311 - 07/20/04 04:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

A PAL moderator who does not know what law is - that's special.

Here we go again:

Webster:

law ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l?)
n.
A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.


This news item certainly reflected a rule of conduct established by an authority.

*Swami wanders off to the MENSA website*


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909373 - 07/20/04 04:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I think you are mistaken about what Ronstadt was hired to do. She was hired to provide a diversion for the clientelle, a mindless vacation musical interlude. See my comment about someone spoiling one of your trips with excess reality. It was an entirely inappropriate venue for this stuff and the paying customers didn't appreciate it.

The son of Moore comment had nothing to do with whether you have read his books or seen his movies or sucked his dick. It was about you leaving out relevant information to make a point not actually supported by facts.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2909455 - 07/20/04 05:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

So far I have not got a single response to any of my pointed questions.

1. Have other entertainers made political comments before without being booted?

2. What if she had said "Let's support our troops", and the audience had rioted?

3. What if her comments elicited very little reaction?

4. Was she supposed to know that the audience would react in a rowdy manner? (She is a singer not a psychic.)

TIA


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Anonymous

Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909479 - 07/20/04 05:31 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

before i take the time to answer those questions... would you please clear up precisely where you stand on this?

are you merely objecting to the conduct of the casino, or are you suggesting that her rights were violated and this is cause for government action against the casino?

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909513 - 07/20/04 05:44 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
So far I have not got a single response to any of my pointed questions.

1. Have other entertainers made political comments before without being booted?



It doesn't matter. The casino is private property and the operators/owners may decide to do business with whomever they wish.

Quote:

2. What if she had said "Let's support our troops", and the audience had rioted?



Then the operators/owners would probably be wise to take the same action.

Quote:

3. What if her comments elicited very little reaction?



Then the operators/owners would probably be wise to take no action and continue to collect gate receipts (assuming she was pulling in enough to make her appearences profitable).

Quote:

4. Was she supposed to know that the audience would react in a rowdy manner? (She is a singer not a psychic.)



Irrelevant. The casino is private property and the operators/owners may decide to do business with whomever they wish. If they feel that her continued presence would be bad for business, it would be unwise to keep her as an act.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909515 - 07/20/04 05:45 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
So far I have not got a single response to any of my pointed questions.

1. Have other entertainers made political comments before without being booted?

At the Alladin or just in general?

2. What if she had said "Let's support our troops", and the audience had rioted?

What if I could see alternate realities?

3. What if her comments elicited very little reaction?

We probably wouldn't be here right now.

4. Was she supposed to know that the audience would react in a rowdy manner? (She is a singer not a psychic.)

Based on the various write ups of the event, including their
detail of her political lean, I imagine that she knew that she wasn't taking
the middle road on this one and was bound to offend someone...if not her
least favorite...the right wing religious conservative republicon


TIA




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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: ]
    #2909519 - 07/20/04 05:47 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

are you merely objecting to the conduct of the casino

Yes. It sets a precedent. There is nothing stopping the clientele from rioting during Jay Leno's act even if they are expecting political humor. The rioters should be expelled, if anyone.

Hell, the Godfather of Las Vegas, Frank Sinatra, used to do scathing anti-racism diatribes during his singing act (to protest the way Sammy Davis Jr. was treated) that pissed off many fans.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909530 - 07/20/04 05:49 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

That was Frank, not some two-bit washed up pop star.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
    #2909547 - 07/20/04 05:57 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

So it is who says it, not what was said then...


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909655 - 07/20/04 06:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Swami's first post says:

Quote:

Whatever you think of Moore, this should appall every American here who still believes in Free Speech and opposes fascism.




Swami, the reason you're getting raked over the coals here is that you are equating the behavior of private individuals with government suppression of expression of thought. Fascism is a form of government. A casino manager firing a performer is not an example of fascism. It is an example of good business sense.

As for "Free Speech" -- what does this incident have to do with Ronstadt's right to speak freely? She spoke her mind and got a response to what she said. Was she imprisoned? Nope. Was she charged with a crime? Nope. Was she beaten up? Nope. Was she ripped off for her fee? Nope. Is she free to repeat the same comments in a bar, on the street, at her next gig? Yep.

Actions have consequences. Ronstadt made the cardinal professional performer's sin of misreading her audience. Too bad, so sad.

pinky


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909710 - 07/20/04 06:48 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
So it is who says it, not what was said then...



My statement was meant to be a smart ass remark.

Actually, it probably has to do with what she said and how it affected the audience. There's a reason it's called 'The Music Business' and casinos and hotels are in the business of pleasing their customers. If the customers aren't happy, it's not good for the bottom line, regardless of the political opinions of those involved. If the customers become upset with a performer and start vandalizing your facilities, that's doubly bad. Besides, last I saw Linda Ronstadt had attained a girth equal to that of a large domestic grazing animal... it probably cost the management too much to feed her so it's best she be put out to pasture.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
    #2909719 - 07/20/04 06:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Swami, the reason you're getting raked over the coals here is that you are equating the behavior of private individuals with government suppression of expression of thought. Fascism is a form of government.
Are you also saying that there is no such thing as corporate fascism? I also said "should anger those that oppose fascism". Should we always wait until a problem is too big to deal with before noting a possible warning sign?

Caribbean Resident : Well, we better start boarding our house because a hurricane is coming.

Pinky: 50 MPH winds are not technically a hurricane.

Caribbean Resident: Right. Wait until they hit 120 mph.


A casino manager firing a performer is not an example of fascism. It is an example of good business sense.
The performance was essentially over. Refusing to let her go to her hotel room did not make their clientele any safer nor did that have anything to do with her wages. That was indicative of an emotional response from the manager and not a business response.

Actions have consequences. Ronstadt made the cardinal professional performer's sin of misreading her audience. Too bad, so sad.
You think this is news merely because an entertainer misread her audience or maybe because it reflects a whole new climate of what is or is not permissible to say publicly?



Edited by Swami (07/20/04 07:13 PM)

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909778 - 07/20/04 07:02 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Her activities were certainly curtailed; i.e. cut short; of the planned activities.

The "plan" probably didn't include her remark as part of the show.

And just so I can help reinforce the idea of those who hold the opinion that I'm a kool-aid drinking, neo-con Republican, I think they did they right thing. I'm tired of hearing entertainers use their positions as a soapbox to enunciate their political sentiments in inappropriate forums. I hope this sends a message to others who might have done something similar.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909840 - 07/20/04 07:16 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Swami writes:

You think this is news...

In a world less dominated by left-leaning press, this wouldn't be national news at all. A performer made ill-advised remarks and got fired for it. How is this news outside of the Las Vegas entertainment circuit? It isn't.

... merely because an entertainer misread her audience or maybe because it reflects a whole new climate of what is or is not permissible to say publicly?

Re-read my remarks. Actions have consequences. It has nothing to do with what is "permissible", or any "new climate". It is strictly a business decision. If a performer pisses off the very people you are trying to attract as a business owner, it is wise to remove that performer. It matters not if they piss off your customers by doing an unanticipated striptease act or by using foul language or by insulting audience members or by trying to convert them to Mormonism or by praising Osama bin Laden. What counts is that the very person you are paying to boost your business is instead damaging it.

This is nothing more than a case of a professional performer acting in an unprofessional manner and having a gig cancelled because of it. It certainly isn't the first time it's happened. It certainly won't be the last.

A tempest in a teapot.

pinky


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2909846 - 07/20/04 07:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I have yet to go to a single concert where a performer has not expressed some opinion on some subject. And yet, I have never seen that in any program listing - how strange. At 9:15 PM the performer will make the following spontaneous remarks:...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
    #2909872 - 07/20/04 07:24 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

How is this news outside of the Las Vegas entertainment circuit? It isn't.
Was on Fox News and O'Reilly. Did not realize they were part of the LV entertainment circuit.

In a world less dominated by left-leaning press
Fox News and O'Reilly are left-leaning?  :rolleyes:

Guess we should take whatever you say as the final word despite these errors.


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909883 - 07/20/04 07:26 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Swami asks in his edit:

Are you also saying that there is no such thing as corporate fascism?

Yes. Fascism by definition is a form of government. What is so hard to grasp about this?

Should we always wait until a problem is too big to deal with before noting a possible warning sign?

What "problem" are you talking about? How is the fact that from time to time an entertainer puts his/her foot in his/her mouth a dire national "problem"? Ronstadt fucked up. The one paying for the gig reacted to her fuckup. Case closed, story over. Time to move on. No need for new legislation.

Refusing to let her go to her hotel room did not make their clientele any safer nor did that have anything to do with her wages. That was indicative of an emotional response from the manager and not a business response.

Incorrect. By reacting as he did, he showed the offended audience members that he was on their side. They were outraged: he was also outraged. A kindred soul, and one who was just as shocked and sandbagged as they were. Not only was this indeed a business decision, it was an excellent business decision. A canny manager might have done even more: perhaps offer all those who wished it a free ticket to the show of the next performer at the casino to make up for their spoiled evening.

pinky


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909907 - 07/20/04 07:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I saw the article on CNN and Yahoo news, with an AP tag. I have no idea who "broke" the story. I just presumed it was originally reported by some Las Vegas local paper (maybe the Sun?) and once AP picked it up and ran with it, all the usual suspects got into it as well.

The fact of the matter is that this is not news. I repeat, performers have been yanked many times in the past for pissing off audiences, and they will undoubtedly continue to be yanked for pissing off audiences in the future.

pinky


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
    #2909909 - 07/20/04 07:34 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

The evening, as you put it ,was not spoiled. The audience gave her a standing ovation and Desperado was the encore song dedicated to Moore. They got their money's worth.

The audience did not know (at the time) that Ronstadt was not allowed to return to her hotel room.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909913 - 07/20/04 07:35 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Swami writes:

I have yet to go to a single concert where a performer has not expressed some opinion on some subject.

I've been to dozens.

pinky


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909926 - 07/20/04 07:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

It was certainly spoiled for some. And no, the audience didn't know at the time they were leaving the venue which actions the casino management would take. They do now.

As for how this relates to politics, activism, or law, I'm with Baby_Hitler on this one. There is no relation to any of the three. No laws were broken, no politicians were involved. Ronstadt made an error. She paid for it. This is no plot by Bush or PNAC -- it is a casino manager doing what he is paid to do.

What's the big deal? I say again -- tempest in a teapot.

pinky


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
    #2909931 - 07/20/04 07:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I've been to dozens.

And they didn't even say how pleased they were to be in your city and that you were a wonderful audience? Were they mute or are you talking about classical concerts?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909955 - 07/20/04 07:46 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Swami writes:

And they didn't even say how pleased they were to be in your city and that you were a wonderful audience? Were they mute or are you talking about classical concerts?

Let me see. The four times I saw Jethro Tull -- nope. The Who -- nope. The many times I saw Pink Floyd, Emerson Lake and Palmer -- nope. The three or four times I saw Yes -- nope. King Crimson -- nope. Ravi Shankar -- nope. Phillip Glass -- nope. Supertramp -- nope. Kodo Drummers of Japan? Nope. None of them even mentioned the city they were playing in.

They got on stage, put on excellent shows, and let the music speak for itself with no commentary of any kind between songs. Then they left the stage. My kind of show.

pinky


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InvisibleMeat_Log_Smurf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2909978 - 07/20/04 07:52 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Typical Swami spin. Keep spinnin them wheels man. As usual you left out a key part. I don't know if anyone posted this but:

Before her concert, Ronstadt had laughingly told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that she hoped that the casino performance would be her last. "I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back," she was quoted as telling the newspaper.


Maybe someone over heard her, and came to the conclusion that she hated the place. Then thought why don't we just kick this cunt out the door? I am sorry one of your favs got kicked out of the casino but they had every right to. She did her show then she left. Maybe escorted out but it was a one show gig anyway.

Edited by Meat_Log_Smurf (07/20/04 08:35 PM)

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Meat_Log_Smurf]
    #2910025 - 07/20/04 08:04 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

What I find hilarious is that so many people are letting emotions control them even though the event affected no one in any way other than Linda Ronstadt.She is probably banned from Aladdin.Thats it.She was escorted out and that was it.No one knows if the owner had opposing views or not so fascism cannot be even be claimed.This whole topic is nothing but heresay with little knowledge of actual events.None this information even matters anyway.lmao

Not even one person here will be affected by this event.lol


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Meat_Log_Smurf]
    #2910037 - 07/20/04 08:06 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

As usual you left out a key part.
I saw nothing about that quote. Give me the paper reference and I will look up your alleged quote. I want to see it in print BEFORE the concert else it is just most -likely heresay added on.

"I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back," she was quoted as telling the newspaper.
That makes sense. She voluntarily takes a show that she does not want to do.

I am sorry one of your favs got kicked out of the casino...
Yet another poster with a severe reading disorder.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2910044 - 07/20/04 08:09 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Not even one person here will be affected by this event.lol

No, but we get to kill some time, become all righteous and get all fired up for free.  :laugh:


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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2910127 - 07/20/04 08:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Lmao True.It is also quite amusing to watch sometimes.


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InvisibleMeat_Log_Smurf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2910131 - 07/20/04 08:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2910182 - 07/20/04 08:45 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

That makes sense. She voluntarily takes a show that she does not want to do.

I believe she was paid I don't think she did this for her health.

Yet another poster with a severe reading disorder.

Naw dude I am just fuckin with ya since your real favs MJ.

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Meat_Log_Smurf]
    #2910198 - 07/20/04 08:49 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Hmmm. Las Vegas Review-Journal, you say? Should be checkable -- at least by folks who live in or near Las Vegas.

pinky


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
    #2910228 - 07/20/04 08:57 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I would check it out at the public library, but don't know how to search a paper without a date and a section; else it is just heresay.

BTW, no one seems to care that the vast majority of the audience did not boo and were disrupted by a minority (of probably semi-drunk pro-Bushites).


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InvisibleMeat_Log_Smurf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2910327 - 07/20/04 09:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Swami said- BTW, no one seems to care that the vast majority of the audience did not boo and were disrupted by a minority (of probably semi-drunk pro-Bushites).

CNN says-About a quarter of the 4,500 people in the audience got up and left before the performance had finished, Gorgon said.

Hmmm.. 1/4 of 4,500 is 1125. Pardon me but thats alot of people. Whether they were Bush supporters or not its still alot of people. Maybe they were there to have a good time and didn't want to hear someone throw there political ideologies at them why they were thinking about what slot machine they were going to hit when they got out of the show. Either way I think its absolutely hilarious that this gets your panties in a wad. Anyway I have yet to see Far. 911 so I won't comment on it but if its anything like his other movies I will demand my $ back. Lets not forget he started out as a comedian.

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2910352 - 07/20/04 09:24 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Uh huh. We know the date the concert was held, right? And it was just a single gig, right? I don't even know if the paper in question is a daily or a weekly, but it likely wouldn't take all that much time to review even a daily paper for a review of an upcoming concert. How far back would you have to go? Less than a month, surely.

As for the "vast majority" not booing, now you are really reaching. The fact remains that a significant number of paying customers were upset. All accounts I have read so far say there was more involved than mere booing.

Besides, I repeat again -- this has nothing to do with politics. It has nothing to do with the "climate" of the times or "corporate fascism" or any Republican government conspiracy. It is a simple case of a performer offending an audience and the reaction of the person who paid for the concert to that offense.

We can argue over whether the action of the casino management is likely to mollify those who were pissed off to a greater extent than it will upset those who weren't -- for example there will undoubtedly be some in the audience who may not return to the Aladdin Casino because they are Moore fans and agree completely with Ronstadt's comments. But we would then be discussing business judgment rather than political affairs.

I seem to recall a recent post in the Spirituality and Philosophy forum asking if facts and data mean nothing to those with rigid and blinkered preconceptions. Does the datum that Ronstadt had the intent of pissing off the casino even before the performance began mean nothing to you?

pinky


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
    #2910391 - 07/20/04 09:36 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Besides, I repeat again -- this has nothing to do with politics.
A political comment has nothing to do with politics? OK, you got me there.

And a religious comment has nothing to do with religion? (How am I doing so far?)

Does the datum that Ronstadt had the intent of pissing off the casino even before the performance began mean nothing to you?
Maybe if she had polled the 4500 audience members and management ahead of time and knew it would spark the crowd. I have heard similar comments cheered in other venues.

I think you are just jealous that this thread has easily beat out all other threads today in readership/response ratio and total responses (even if many were mine.)


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2910426 - 07/20/04 09:47 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

You are hilarious.

This is a non-issue.

I repeat (I seem to have to do a lot of that in this thread) -- Ronstadt was not chastised for her political views, she was chastised for pissing off the audience. The fact that she pissed them off through a political comment rather than an improptu striptease or a racist comment is completely irrelevant to what occurred -- the audience (or a significant portion thereof) got pissed off.

pinky


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
    #2910458 - 07/20/04 09:52 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I repeat (I seem to have to do a lot of that in this thread)

Have to? You have no free will (just like the audience)?


--------------------



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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2910641 - 07/20/04 10:35 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

What law was involved then Einstein?

Which law are we talking about here?


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2911222 - 07/21/04 02:35 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

So whens this useless circle jerk of a thread going to get locked?

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Barbi]
    #2911233 - 07/21/04 02:45 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Fuck off mnd, can't you see I'm singling someone else out right now.

Your turn will come back around soon enough. :stoned:


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2911244 - 07/21/04 02:53 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Man, I cant even side with the mods on how this isnt PAL material without getting threatened!

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2911366 - 07/21/04 05:25 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I think you are just jealous that this thread has easily beat out all other threads today in readership/response ratio and total responses (even if many were mine.) 




HA HA...yep we are all jealous of you.  The reason there are so many responses is that your views are so easy to refute.  Each word you write the more circular your argument becomes. :thumbup:


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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2911608 - 07/21/04 08:29 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

round and round we go...where we stop, only B_H knows...


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
    #2911631 - 07/21/04 08:39 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
You're just going to end up with a bunch of people bitching that "oh...it's a private business so they have every right to escort her out of the building!" :smirk:






Its crap like this which keeps private businesses from utilizing brilliant minds like mine.  I've been fired over shit like this before, and thats one of the reasons I've chosen to invest my intelligence against these businesses instead of in their support. 

hmph.  their loss.  I'll be laughing when businesses like that fail because they are only willing to employ those people who are so dumb that they are incapable of forming an opinion.  I hope those entreprenuers starve to death and eliminate their bigotry from the gene pool.

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2911641 - 07/21/04 08:48 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Its crap like this which keeps private businesses from utilizing brilliant minds like mine.




I hope you're being sarcastic.

Quote:

I've been fired over shit like this before, and thats one of the reasons I've chosen to invest my intelligence against these businesses instead of in their support.


 
:what:

Quote:

hmph. their loss. I'll be laughing when businesses like that fail because they are only willing to employ those people who are so dumb that they are incapable of forming an opinion. I hope those entreprenuers starve to death and eliminate their bigotry from the gene pool.



:what:

I really wanted to write more but your post left me speechless, in a bad way.

Edit: you have a right to not go to these places now and talking against them because while they exercised their first amendment rights they have to also remember that it also has consequences.  They will lose out on your business.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (07/21/04 08:52 AM)

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2911872 - 07/21/04 10:09 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

remember in Atlas Shrugged, when all the smart people quit their jobs, and nuclear physicists were working in coffee shops?

Its happening now.

businesses dont want intelligent people of principle working for them. Most would rather hire morons, feed them and clothe them, foster their breeding. Breed an entire army of idiots that will do unethical work for peanuts because they are so easily controlled via their emotions.

meanwhile, people like me cant find work, we starve to death, and the evolution of the human fenome continues its downward spiral.

that my friend, is the master plan.

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2911913 - 07/21/04 10:25 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

remember in Atlas Shrugged, when all the smart people quit their jobs, and nuclear physicists were working in coffee shops?

Its happening now.




Not in my profession it isn't (and i'm sure in most professions as well).

Quote:

businesses dont want intelligent people of principle working for them.




Wrong, I do some hiring and this is exactly what we look for.  We want the candidate that can grasp all aspects of the job they are applying for.  Who told you that businesses don't want smart people?  That's just rediculous.

Quote:

Most would rather hire morons, feed them and clothe them, foster their breeding. Breed an entire army of idiots that will do unethical work for peanuts because they are so easily controlled via their emotions.





you sound VERY bitter.  Have you ever been in a professional environment?  This couldn't be further from the truth.

Quote:

meanwhile, people like me cant find work, we starve to death, and the evolution of the human fenome continues its downward spiral. 




noone has a right to a job.  It seems your attitude is what's stopping you from being hired.  You claim to have a  brilliant mind yet you blame your short commings on people within the business world.  A business is there to make it's product and make a profit (which is not evil).  A business has a direction and if you're not willing to go in that direction you can either kiss your ass goodbye or enjoy your brilliant mind in a low level, low risk position with low pay.  I'd suggest you read "The 7 Habits of Highly Successful People", it will probably help you.

Quote:

that my friend, is the master plan.




:shiftyeyes:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2911968 - 07/21/04 10:46 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Not in my profession it isn't (and i'm sure in most professions as well).





perhaps your perception of this matter has been skewed by your involvement in it. 

Quote:

Wrong, I do some hiring and this is exactly what we look for. We want the candidate that can grasp all aspects of the job they are applying for. Who told you that businesses don't want smart people? That's just rediculous.





no one had to 'tell me'; its something I've learned from experience and observation.  Spare me the recitation of you HR department's mission statement; you know damn well that often what a company says it does and what the company actually does are two different things. 

Quote:

you sound VERY bitter. Have you ever been in a professional environment? This couldn't be further from the truth.





I think we've covered this before.  I have had many jobs from cashier to office work.  Most businesses seem to function the same, not because of the similarity in coporate structure or anything like that, but primarily because of similarity in basic human psychology.  People are generally threatened by intelligence, or anything else too far off the belle curve.  People tend to fear things that are different from them, and this basic human psychological trait effects the workplace in ways you cant imagine. 

Quote:

noone has a right to a job. It seems your attitude is what's stopping you from being hired. 




indeed it is.  apparently curioisity, adherance to reason, and dynamic nonconformity are not things the corporate world looks for in its employees. 

Quote:

You claim to have a brilliant mind yet you blame your short commings on people within the business world.




Oh, dont worry about me, mes amis.  I can take care of myself just fine, employment or no.  Its everyone else I'm worried about.  You see I've come to depend on businesses for my standard of living, and I wouldnt want them to collapse because they hired a bunch of idiots instead of a 'loose cannon' such as myself. 

my skills could have been a great asset to this country, but instead they will be turned against it.  Dont worry about me.  Worry about yourself. 

Quote:

A business has a direction and if you're not willing to go in that direction you can either kiss your ass goodbye or enjoy your brilliant mind in a low level, low risk position with low pay.




Is it so hard for you to grasp the idea that I might be an asset to a company, yet still be a detriment to an individual within that company?  Perhaps an individual who holds the fate of my employment in his hands, and wouldn't hesitate to use that power in order to save his own skin, for better or worse for the company? 

 
Quote:

I'd suggest you read "The 7 Habits of Highly Successful People", it will probably help you.





:lol:

dude, you are such a tool. 

"You're a starve and a snitch
you suck like a leech
You want everyone to act like you
kiss ass like a bitch
so you can get rich
but your boss gets richer off you.

you'll work harder with a gun in your back
for a bowl of rice a day
slave for soldiers till you starve
and your head is skewered on a stake."

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2911987 - 07/21/04 10:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe you turn people off because you're too full of yourself. It doesn't matter how smart you are, people generally don't like to be around a self-important know it all who thinks he's above everybody else. It's not good for the customers either.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
    #2912010 - 07/21/04 11:01 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

its the anonymnity of the internet that makes me this way.

IRL I am very humble and often quite shy and reserved.

Ironically what you have said is untrue, at least in my experience. Employers tend to dig overconfidence and egotism.

For example:

One HR guy I talked to once said that he used a particular tactic in selecting applicants for a particular position: He would interview each applicant, then when they called back the next day to get the job, he would tell them that he found a better candidate. If they simply said "thanks for your time, sorry I couldnt work for you", then they were out of the running. If however, the applicant argued with the HR guy that they were a better candidate than whomever he had in mind, they were immeadiately asked to a second interview.

The HR guy's reasoning of course, is that the applicants protest showed self-confidence and initiative.

But all this really measures is the applicants ego. Its certainly not an accurate predictor of job performance. And yet HR people use lame-brained tactics like this ALL THE TIME.

should I also mention the studies which have shown that more physically attractive people tend to get positions over less attractive people who are more qualified for thoise positions?

should I also mention the studies which have shown that racial minorities tend to be judged more harshly by HR departments than equally qualified white applicants?

Anyone who thinks the hiring process is based solely in merit could not be further from the truth.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912036 - 07/21/04 11:09 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

perhaps your perception of this matter has been skewed by your involvement in it.




that's a cop out.

I hire people so I know what and who is being considered for what reason. I have never been told to go out and get the guy/girl who will not think and jusat do. You sound as if you just have a chip on your sholder.

Quote:

no one had to 'tell me'; its something I've learned from experience and observation. Spare me the recitation of you HR department's mission statement; you know damn well that often what a company says it does and what the company actually does are two different things.




you sound like a defeatist. I don't know you but i'm guessing that you've never been in a position of authority. (I could be wrong). What I said wasn't from any mission statement rather it was what I use as a criteria when someone is hired. If i hire a dumb person, it makes me look bad and my work that much harder.

Quote:

People are generally threatened by intelligence, or anything else too far off the belle curve. People tend to fear things that are different from them, and this basic human psychological trait effects the workplace in ways you cant imagine.




you seem to be the only one who thinks you are highly intellegent. You can be the smartest person on earth but that doesn't make you a good worker. Do you sacrifice? Work long hours? go above and beyond what is expected of you? I'd guess no because if you're as smart as you've told us you are you would of figured that one out on your own.

Quote:

indeed it is. apparently curioisity, adherance to reason, and dynamic nonconformity are not things the corporate world looks for in its employees.




Curiosity is welcomed because employers like people who are interested in the job they seek, reason is relative and just because you say you're smart you lack experience, as for the nonconfomity thing I have to laugh because that's reserved for children going through their teenage years. A business has a direction as I said before, if you don't want to go into that direction, start your own business.

Quote:

Its everyone else I'm worried about. You see I've come to depend on businesses for my standard of living, and I wouldnt want them to collapse because they hired a bunch of idiots instead of a 'loose cannon' such as myself.





a loose cannon? and you wonder why you can't get a job. I's concentrate on doing a good job on the job you were hired for.

Quote:

Is it so hard for you to grasp the idea that I might be an asset to a company, yet still be a detriment to an individual within that company?




i'm not the one you have to convince. you can lie on the floor beating your hands and feet like a baby all day and that will get you absolutly nowhere. You have to prove you are worth. Personally if I had someone like you who wouldn't follow company protocal (according to what the business wants) i'd fire you on the spot. Real workers don't have time for childish people.

As for being an individual at work (which takes away from the team mentality) tyou can still do that if you're willing to push the company forward with your ideas into the direction they want to go.

Quote:

dude, you are such a tool.




I'm also the tool that does the hiring and firing. Someone as angry as yourself would never have to be worried about being fired from an high level job because I doubt you are smart enough to get to that level. Use your head to advance and quit yer crying.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912088 - 07/21/04 11:23 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I work in a professional environment (an international technical support corporation)...or at least that's what it's supposed to be! I know first hand what you are talking about: intelligence and resourcefulness are not the most highly prized aspects...those at the top just look for people who will just do what they're told. I have watched people get promoted ahead of me and be told by my immediate superiors that those people don't know what they're doing...that I should have had the posistion ahead of them. Instead the people with less skill and less knowledge are promoted simply because they kiss some corporate ass.

I do a damned fine job at work. My peers all see this and compliment me on it. It's nice to get compliments...but it would be much nicer to get a promotion. :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912099 - 07/21/04 11:26 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


should I also mention the studies which have shown that more physically attractive people tend to get positions over less attractive people who are more qualified for thoise positions?

should I also mention the studies which have shown that racial minorities tend to be judged more harshly by HR departments than equally qualified white applicants?




I see...so you're an ugly beaner?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
    #2912103 - 07/21/04 11:26 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Are you at work right now?

pinky


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
    #2912116 - 07/21/04 11:30 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

but he's a genius.


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2912145 - 07/21/04 11:39 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I have never been told to go out and get the guy/girl who will not think and jusat do.




dude, I dont know you, and I havent seen you do your job, so I cant say whether or not you would make all the typical mistakes that HR people tend to make.  I'm willing to admit you seem more intelligent than most of the people I've met who work in that field.  Did you hear that?  Despite the fact that I disagree with you, I still acknowledge your intelligence.   Perhaps you could learn from a young'un like me. 

besides, it wasnt my point that you would be ordered to make such decisions, it was only my point that perhaps the predjudices inherent in all human minds (including my own) keep HR people from making objective decisions in the interest of the outfit they work for. 

Quote:

I don't know you but i'm guessing that you've never been in a position of authority.




then you have guessed wrong.  I the past I have been in charge of the management and training of teams consisting of 20 or more people. 

Quote:

If i hire a dumb person, it makes me look bad and my work that much harder.





Or it could protect your position from those lower level employees who would seek to dethrone you. 

Quote:

you seem to be the only one who thinks you are highly intellegent.




If that were true, I would not think of myself in such a way. 

Quote:

  You can be the smartest person on earth but that doesn't make you a good worker. Do you sacrifice? Work long hours? go above and beyond what is expected of you? I'd guess no because if you're as smart as you've told us you are you would of figured that one out on your own.





I do what I'm paid to do, nothing more, nothing less.  Why should I go above and beyond if a company refuses to compensate me adequately for it?  How is that an even exchange? 

Quote:

  reason is relative and just because you say you're smart you lack experience




'lack of experience'!!  what a classic example!  I am an auto-diadact, and this is often held against me.  Because I teach things to myself, and do not require instruction in order to figure most things out, I have tons of experience but no documentation to back it up.  It seems to me that it would be in a company's best interest to hire someone who took the initiative to figure something out by himself, rather than the average joe who signed up and completed a bunch of classes which may or may not have given him the depth of understanding that I achieved on my own under my own instruction.  But this is not the case; most companies will hire the complacent fools who sat through all the certification classes, even though their only motivation in doing so was not to learn, but to become qualified for certain jobs.

Quote:

as for the nonconfomity thing I have to laugh because that's reserved for children going through their teenage years. A business has a direction as I said before, if you don't want to go into that direction, start your own business.





sometimes a broader, more open-minded perspective is required to usher a company into the future, especially during periods of great technological advance.  Most of the people who built and designed the first computers were nonconformist hippies who wouldn't have a chance in hell of being hired at Apple today. 

as for starting my own business, well...  be careful what you ask for :smile:

Quote:

i'm not the one you have to convince. you can lie on the floor beating your hands and feet like a baby all day and that will get you absolutly nowhere. You have to prove you are worth. Personally if I had someone like you who wouldn't follow company protocal (according to what the business wants) i'd fire you on the spot. Real workers don't have time for childish people.

As for being an individual at work (which takes away from the team mentality) tyou can still do that if you're willing to push the company forward with your ideas into the direction they want to go.





obviously you didnt understand my original question, because you didnt answer it. 

businesses are made of individuals, and individuals are inherently selfish.  I could have the best idea in the world to increase productivity and one selfish person in the right position could squash it out of fear that my idea might outshine their own performance in the eyes of their superiors.  Or worse yet, they could steal my idea and take the credit for it.  This shit happens all the time.

Quote:

I'm also the tool that does the hiring and firing. Someone as angry as yourself would never have to be worried about being fired from an high level job because I doubt you are smart enough to get to that level. 




thank you for that perfect example of the same HR bigotry that keeps smart people out of good jobs.  You've judged my intelligence negatively simply because I disagree with you.  I bet you are a real non-biased interviewer :rolleyes:

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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2912146 - 07/21/04 11:40 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

"I didn't even know there was trouble," she said. "Those places operate like little city-states. They are all-powerful. And I had already said I never want to come back."

:grin: :grin:
The casino's president said he didn't allow the singer back in her luxury suite afterward and she was escorted off the property.


Ronstadt, 58, told the Times her remarks were "modest," adding: "They didn't throw me out."

what a cunt..ROFLMAO


"This is an election year," she told the Los Angeles Times Tuesday. "I want people to get their head up out of their mashed potatoes and learn something about the issues and go and vote. ... I'm not telling them how to vote. I'm saying, get information about the issues."

Boy, I'm glad shes giving out advice on how I should get my information.  I'm gonna have to rethink everything now...  Oh boy..... :razz: :blah: :blowme: :blowjob:


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


Grow Log



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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
    #2912149 - 07/21/04 11:41 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I have watched people get promoted ahead of me and be told by my immediate superiors that those people don't know what they're doing...that I should have had the posistion ahead of them. Instead the people with less skill and less knowledge are promoted simply because they kiss some corporate ass.





I have seen the same thing happen many times, unfortunately :nonono:

its the aristocracy of pull...

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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912155 - 07/21/04 11:44 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Quote:

I have watched people get promoted ahead of me and be told by my immediate superiors that those people don't know what they're doing...that I should have had the posistion ahead of them. Instead the people with less skill and less knowledge are promoted simply because they kiss some corporate ass.





I have seen the same thing happen many times, unfortunately :nonono:

its the aristocracy of pull...




INteresting, I have seen the same thing happen many time, only NOT because of ass kissing, (which like it or not is a technique to get promoted)  But because of afirmative action!  Is that ok in the eyes of you Libs? (liberals and libertarians)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2912163 - 07/21/04 11:46 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

You'll find very little support for affirmative action among us libertarians, and even many liberals on this forum have come out against it.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: silversoul7]
    #2912166 - 07/21/04 11:46 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Goiod to know that y'all arent cool-aid libs then


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2912174 - 07/21/04 11:49 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

But because of afirmative action! Is that ok in the eyes of you Libs? (liberals and libertarians)



ANY government mandated quota based on race or whatever is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE in the mind of libertarians. Reverse racism is all affirmative action is.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
    #2912182 - 07/21/04 11:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
Quote:


should I also mention the studies which have shown that more physically attractive people tend to get positions over less attractive people who are more qualified for thoise positions?

should I also mention the studies which have shown that racial minorities tend to be judged more harshly by HR departments than equally qualified white applicants?




I see...so you're an ugly beaner?




:lol:

no, I wouldnt call myself that, but I have been denied a good number of jobs because I 'looked young'

seriously, I'm 23, but I could easily be mistaken for 16.  Most people dont want to hire a man that looks as young as I do.  Not that they could give you a logical reason for not hiring me, mind you, they might say something like "He just doesnt look very responsible", or "Putting him in a position of authority may cause problems". 

again, I will state that anyone who thinks that hiring and promtion processes are based solely on merit are far from the truth.  Petty, ultimately meaningless factors play a much bigger role in an applicant's selection for employment than most people are willing to acknowledge.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912196 - 07/21/04 12:02 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

WOW, 23 and you have the business world figured out. hmmph.  5 whole years in the real world. :rolleyes:


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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912208 - 07/21/04 12:08 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)



again, I will state that anyone who thinks that hiring and promtion processes are based solely on merit are far from the truth. Petty, ultimately meaningless factors play a much bigger role in an applicant's selection for employment than most people are willing to acknowledge.





Take responsibility for your self and figure out the real reason you didnt get hired. If it was a popularity contest, you lost. If it was an ass kissing contest, you lost, if it was merit based, you lost. Dont blame the system like a true liberal, blame yourself for not adapting. Remember YOU applied for the position! So Don't talk about how bad the people hiring are. If they were evil, why did you apply in the first place?


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912210 - 07/21/04 12:08 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

meh...it all depends.

I've been places where the blowhard shitbags
get all the breaks.

and I've been places where hard work was rewarded.

you can't judge the entire corporate system based on
a couple entry-level positions (or whatever) that you've
managed to land in the last 5 years.

depends on field, depends on position, depends on
the company, depends on how hot that coworker of
yours is and how well he/she sucks the bosses dick.


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2912228 - 07/21/04 12:15 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

you know your attitude is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. 

Here, I have identified a serious problem in our workforce, the occurance of which has been backed by both psychological research and the testimony of several people. 

The impact of this problem causes decreased operational efficiency in day to day business.  Taking steps to solve the problem, therefore, could increase productivity. 

And yet you dont want to hear it, you dont want to open your eyes and acknowledge the truth.  Because what I am saying conflicts with the beliefs you hold dear, and your own bigotry keeps you from really hearing what I am saying. 

You've already proved your bigotry by making fun of my age.  How many times have you participated in age discrimination while performing duties for the company at which you are employed?  Do you really believe that age is an accurate predictor of mental fortitude past the age at which people are declared non-minors?  I know a few brilliant 13 year olds and a few idiotic 50 year olds that would make quick work of your statistical analysis. 

How many ideas have you squashed because you didn't like the person from whose mind they originated?  I bet you are a highly proficient manager :rolleyes:

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912249 - 07/21/04 12:27 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Still wet behind the ears and knows everything...

Put down that sugary soda, get your teeth fixed, realize that your attitude WILL be picked up on by other people even though you think you're hiding it. Contrary to what your inflated ego tells you, you are not the pinnacle of human evolution. Your inability to get a position is YOUR inability to get a position - quit blaming everybody else. Grow some balls and stop your whining. Who ever promised you that everything would be handed to you on a silver platter? Life's not easy, deal with it!


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912253 - 07/21/04 12:29 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

where is the problem you have identified? Dont you think that if a corporation was running inefficiently, the guys in charge would figure it out? Corparations pay execs big bucks to make things run efficiently. If they are hireing incompitent ass kissers, thats obviously what they need for that position. SOur Grapes here IMHO. Amazing you find yourself so much more qualified to fix a company thats not hurting....


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912285 - 07/21/04 12:45 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

you know your attitude is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.




you mean my realist attitude? I'll take that as a compliment. If there's one trait that the business world could do without it's the whining. I'll concede that you're "smart" but you apparantly don't like to look at yourself for your failures.

Quote:

Here, I have identified a serious problem in our workforce, the occurance of which has been backed by both psychological research and the testimony of several people.




you mean the one person my two that said "hey man that happens at my place to"? well then I stand corrected. I'm saying that it takes most people years in the same company to figure things out and apparantly with your vast work experience in entry level positions you've managed to figure it all out. Did your psychological research happen to mention how the worforce tends to be just like real life? You have your assholes, losers, criminals, hard workers, slackers and defeatists, welcome to life my man.

Quote:

The impact of this problem causes decreased operational efficiency in day to day business. Taking steps to solve the problem, therefore, could increase productivity.




You keep stating that there is a problem but you don't hold anything that you do to blame. I'll go out on another limb and say that it seems that YOU are what is holding you back.

Quote:

And yet you dont want to hear it, you dont want to open your eyes and acknowledge the truth. Because what I am saying conflicts with the beliefs you hold dear, and your own bigotry keeps you from really hearing what I am saying.




it has nothing to do with not wanting to hear it as it does that you don't want to face the reality of the business world. It's like real life, only with more competition. What you say conflicts with nothing but (as I put it) reality itself. People like yourself also like to throw around the word bigotry alot which has nothing to do with this conversation nor does it coincide with any beliefs I have. Are/Where you this vocal at work?

Quote:

You've already proved your bigotry by making fun of my age.




on the contrary, I made fun of your experience level. I know what I was like when I was 23 and I can honestly state without a doubt that you haven't even scratched the surface of the business world. You may poo-poo experience (as many people in your positin do) but the fact that you probably only have 5 or less years in workforce (i'd bet less) you really don't know what you're talking about. This is an example of the work place today, brutal honesty.

Quote:

How many times have you participated in age discrimination while performing duties for the company at which you are employed?




I don't ask people their age (it's against the law), but since I know where you're trying to go with this I will say that if i'm interviewing someone that is to become an market project manager (a pretty high level position) and a young kid walks in wanting the job and he gives me aresume' with only a couple years experience in the workforce i'd have my reservations compared to a guy that's been in the industry for 10 years.

Quote:

o you really believe that age is an accurate predictor of mental fortitude past the age at which people are declared non-minors?




absolutly not, I never mentioned mental fortitude, that's why i said experience. which it looks as though you lack.

Quote:

know a few brilliant 13 year olds and a few idiotic 50 year olds that would make quick work of your statistical analysis.




That's very true, but then again I would never hire someone that was 13 because they would lack life experience, let alone work experience. I'd interview the 50 year old the same as I would anyone else and based on the qualifications for the job and the experience that taht person has. You look as though you're trying to trap me but you're not doing a very good job.

Quote:

How many ideas have you squashed because you didn't like the person from whose mind they originated? I bet you are a highly proficient manager




hmm lets see, my department has met it's goals and everyone in the office seems to get along pretty good. We have brainstorming session a couple times a week with managers and entry level employees.


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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2912393 - 07/21/04 01:14 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

where is the problem you have identified?




I've already stated it about 9 billion times: human psychology accurately predicts that people tend to make the wrong (in terms of productivity) decisions in certain situations. Among these situations is the hiring and promotion process, which I believe is broken in most companies, due to a more or less uniform adherence to obsolete attitudes. In other words, people are selfish and bigoted by nature, and this needs to be held firmly in check by coporate policy, otherwise people will make bad decisions in the hiring and promotion process quite predictably.

Quote:

SOur Grapes here IMHO.




hey, I'm just offering a little constructive criticism. Personally, I do not require employment to survive. But its not just me I'm worried about here, its all the other brilliant people I know who are unemployed or underemployed, and they dont exactly have any means to get the capital to 'start their own business', as some here have idealistically suggested. Some of these people are just as smart if not smarter than myself, and yet they may still not be as resourceful as I am as far as creating wealth is concerned. These people could do great work if they were given the right position, and yet many factors as meaningless as their weight, height, cultural affiliation, age, and physical appearance keep them from obtaining these positions. This is not only bad for them, but bad for the businesses who have denied themselves of these people's talent. This problem is unacceptable and must be solved, in the interest of a more just and productive society. You must understand that discrimination takes many forms, and we have only begun to understand the impact of ineffective schemas on the workplace.

I do not blame other people for my failures. To tell you the truth, I havent had many. I've never been terminated from employment against my will. I simply dont put up with bullshit from my employers. In other words, I treat employment as a mutual exchange; when an employer pisses me off by not compensating me adequately, I deprive them of my services from that point forward. If any of the self-professed libertarians treated employment the way I do, they would probably all be unemployed. Because the fact of the matter is that employers are constantly trying to get more out of their employees than they are willing to pay for. I will not accept this. Right now the job market in this country is like a super market filled with moldy fruit; I dont want to buy anything. Instead, I will work for myself, doing ethical work consisting of mutual exchange between individuals, in which I am paid well for a job well done.

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
    #2912396 - 07/21/04 01:16 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

No pinky, I was not at work when I posted that.


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
    #2912409 - 07/21/04 01:19 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Still wet behind the ears and knows everything...

Put down that sugary soda, get your teeth fixed, realize that your attitude WILL be picked up on by other people even though you think you're hiding it. Contrary to what your inflated ego tells you, you are not the pinnacle of human evolution. Your inability to get a position is YOUR inability to get a position - quit blaming everybody else. Grow some balls and stop your whining. Who ever promised you that everything would be handed to you on a silver platter? Life's not easy, deal with it!




sadly, that's too large to be my new quote...


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
    #2912424 - 07/21/04 01:24 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

i'm seeing him post all these "a matter of fact" stats like how business psychology works, the hiring process (which I doubt he's ever done), how everyones biggots and the problems that are apparant in all businesses (without doing a study of these companies.)

I'm amazed beyond words.


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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2912521 - 07/21/04 01:56 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I get it now. Tell your Dad thanks everyday for alowing you to be part of the trust fund....
You sound like the psuedo hippies I used to run into in Key West all the time when I lived down there. They would all have the long hair, scruffy face and clothes and sit on the streets banging their bongos. The would sit and eschew the American "INstitution" and THE MAN and talk of how this country was shit. Then, when they ran out of money, they would call home and have their momies talk their brain surgeon dadies into sending more money so they could suffer with the masses for a bit longer. It was hillarious. Lots of Psuedo Dead Heads like that too.


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2912578 - 07/21/04 02:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

how hard is it for you to learn how to use the quick reply?

even a long haired pretenda-hippie trustafarian can use
the quick reply button correctly, why can't you?


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2912583 - 07/21/04 02:12 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I'm saying that it takes most people years in the same company to figure things out and apparantly with your vast work experience in entry level positions you've managed to figure it all out. 




I am not 'most people'.  And the majority of people intelligent enough to have an interest in this forum are not 'most people' either. 

Quote:

Did your psychological research happen to mention how the worforce tends to be just like real life? You have your assholes, losers, criminals, hard workers, slackers and defeatists, welcome to life my man.





'that's life', 'get over it', 'life is unfair'

I've heard all these things many times before, and they are cop-outs.  You speak of taking responsibility?  I take responsibility and recognize that life is what we make of it.  Its people like you who make excuses and say: 'That's life, what are you gonna do?' :shrug:

Quote:

People like yourself also like to throw around the word bigotry alot which has nothing to do with this conversation nor does it coincide with any beliefs I have.




bigotry has everything to do with this discussion.  I'm talking about unjust grounds of discrimination that employers use to screen applicants.  Its not just about race, literally anything can and will be used against you.  I'm willing to bet that an alarmingly high number of decisions to hire and promote are not based in logic, merit, or even corporate interest.  They are based in the personal predjudices of the one making the decision to hire, which may or may not be in line with what the position requires. 

Quote:

  You keep stating that there is a problem but you don't hold anything that you do to blame.




that is because I have refused to be a part of the problem by refusing to work for companies that practice these asinine policies.  Which is most of them.  I guess your wife and kids keep you from having the balls to make a similar stand.  Fear of starvation is an especially powerful psychological weapon when used by an employer on his employee, especially if that employee has a family.  Oops.

Quote:

Are/Where you this vocal at work?





Not really.  IRL, I mainly tend to speak with my actions and my money, not my mouth.  Speaking with your mouth rarely does any good. 

Quote:

on the contrary, I made fun of your experience level. I know what I was like when I was 23 and I can honestly state without a doubt that you haven't even scratched the surface of the business world.




dude, that is the fucking definition of bigotry right there.  You have made assumptions about who I am based on your own life experiences, which bear no relevance to who I am. 

Quote:

You may poo-poo experience (as many people in your positin do) but the fact that you probably only have 5 or less years in workforce (i'd bet less) you really don't know what you're talking about.




wrong again, I got a job the day I turned 15, so I could buy my first car, my first computer, and my first bag of pot.  Before that I mowed lawns and did chores around the neighborhood for money.  Yeah, my parents are rich, but they're also libertarians, and they have used that philosophy in the raising of their children.  Daddy didnt buy me shit, I've had to earn everything for as long as I can remember. 

as for your estimation that I have not spent enough time in the workplace to figure out how it operates, well that seems all based on personal bias to me.  How do you know how fast I learn?  How do you know how observant I am?  Some people see more and learn faster.  Some people have focus at a young age.  Just because your only concern at my age was chasing pussy around doesnt mean I am the same way.  Again, please try to consider your own personal bias when making statements like this. 

Quote:

I will say that if i'm interviewing someone that is to become an market project manager (a pretty high level position) and a young kid walks in wanting the job and he gives me aresume' with only a couple years experience in the workforce i'd have my reservations compared to a guy that's been in the industry for 10 years.





seems to me you would be ommitting the factor of recency of education.  Colleges are better now than they were 10 years ago. (They are certainly more expensive)  Everyday technology is more advanced now than 10 years ago.  That dude with 10 years of experience probably grew up watching black and white television.  I grew up surfing the internet.  You really think that old geezer is more qualified than me :lol: :lol: :lol:  You dont know how many "experienced" business people I have had to teach how to use MS office :lol:

sorry, but my position is one of a child who constantly corrects his parents and elders from making stupid mistakes when it comes to everything from driving to computers.  They know damn well that I am more suited to this world than them, which indeed is as it should be: its called 'evolution'. 
   
anyway, experience doesnt always equal capability.  And besides, if you are going to factor in experience that heavily, why not acknowledge the fact that I was using sophisticated technology at an age as early as 5?  I grew up with technology, and it enhanced my early cognitive development in ways you cant understand given the timeframe into which you were born.  In other words, what I'm saying is: "Anything you can do, I can do better" :p  (unless of course its something that involves obsolete technology, like cranking a record player or starting a fire with flint and steel :smile: )

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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
    #2912596 - 07/21/04 02:16 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

trustafarian, now thats great!


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
    #2912616 - 07/21/04 02:23 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

sorry to burst your bubble, but I have short hair, dress conservatively, I fucking hate hippies AND the Greatful Dead, and I have no trust fund. The amount of non tax-write-offable monetary help my parents have given me since they kicked me out of the house at age 18: $0.

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912625 - 07/21/04 02:26 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

And what does Linda Ronstadt think of your capabilities?

pinky


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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
    #2912701 - 07/21/04 02:46 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Still wet behind the ears and knows everything...

Put down that sugary soda, get your teeth fixed, realize that your attitude WILL be picked up on by other people even though you think you're hiding it. Contrary to what your inflated ego tells you, you are not the pinnacle of human evolution. Your inability to get a position is YOUR inability to get a position - quit blaming everybody else. Grow some balls and stop your whining. Who ever promised you that everything would be handed to you on a silver platter? Life's not easy, deal with it!




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
    #2912705 - 07/21/04 02:48 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

sadly, that's too large to be my new quote...



No, it's not.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
    #2912728 - 07/21/04 02:55 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

meh, I dunno :smile:

but for someone to be fired over something so inane and trivial is just stupid. 

I mean, she dedicated a song to a fellow artist and praised one work of his in particular.  I didn't even see it as a political statement, more like an artistic homage. 

the decision to terminate her employment for this reason was sensationalist and irrational, and I predict it will ultimately result in more problems than it solved for the business.  Now, if they had fired her for some other reason, ie: she sucks, then I would have had no problem with that :smile:



And yes, I would feel the same way if she had dedicated the song to Rush Limbaugh and his book "The Way Things Ought to Be".

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912748 - 07/21/04 03:01 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I am not 'most people'. And the majority of people intelligent enough to have an interest in this forum are not 'most people' either.




I'll try to avoid saying how smart or unsmart you are (you've said it about a hundred times)but you haven't a clue about what happens in the business world. Your generalizations are off and based on your extremely short work experience.

Quote:

'that's life', 'get over it', 'life is unfair'

I've heard all these things many times before,




yet you still don't adapt. Humans and other higher life forms exist because they adapt. It seems as though you're unwilling to adapt and as a little dose of reality for you, if you don't adapt in the business world, you don't exist.

Quote:

You speak of taking responsibility? I take responsibility and recognize that life is what we make of it.




no you don't. You've said it yourself of the biggotry, cronyism, and other bad traights businesses have as the reason you haven't got anywhere. You're starting to lie to yourself. sad.

Quote:

Its people like you who make excuses and say: 'That's life, what are you gonna do?'




yeah but I don't give up like you, I adapt. I say "that sucks" then I think of ways and things I can do to avoid getting myself into that position again. I use my brain.

Quote:

bigotry has everything to do with this discussion. I'm talking about unjust grounds of discrimination that employers use to screen applicants.




how would you know? Was your last job responsibility screening candidates for hire? I'm not naive enough to think that it never happens, like I said the work environment often represents what goes on in life. You claim to have all this vast knowledge with absolutly no background in it. Even someone as smart as you would know that that's rediculous.

Quote:

Its not just about race, literally anything can and will be used against you.




Then what is it? If you go into an interview that requires you to dress up, do you go into it wearing sweats and a greatful dead t-shirt? I'm sorry but there are rules in this game, if you don't want to play by them do something in life where you don't need to follow others (you call this idealistic, I call it adaptation).

Quote:

I'm willing to bet that an alarmingly high number of decisions to hire and promote are not based in logic, merit, or even corporate interest.




Possibly, what do you base this on?

Quote:

Which is most of them. I guess your wife and kids keep you from having the balls to make a similar stand




HA, no my wife is quite happy with where I am professionally and fiscally (I have no kids). I'm not comfortable with you talking about my balls.

Quote:

fear of starvation is an especially powerful psychological weapon when used by an employer on his employee, especially if that employee has a family. Oops.




I don't fear starvation because I can adapt. I've been laid off before and found another job, actually it worked out to be the best job i've ever had.

Quote:

Not really. IRL, I mainly tend to speak with my actions and my money, not my mouth. Speaking with your mouth rarely does any good.




Like quitting the job? how noble.

Quote:

wrong again, I got a job the day I turned 15, so I could buy my first car, my first computer, and my first bag of pot. Before that I mowed lawns and did chores around the neighborhood for money. Yeah, my parents are rich, but they're also libertarians, and they have used that philosophy in the raising of their children. Daddy didnt buy me shit, I've had to earn everything for as long as I can remember




I was referring to a professional environment. Cutting lawns is a good job when your a kid or you run a lawncare business but doesn't give you experience in office politics.

Quote:

Just because your only concern at my age was chasing pussy around doesnt mean I am the same way.




actually at your age I was in the Army and attending college while chasing pussy. I'm making assumptions about you based on the amount of people I see in the workplace relative to the experience they have. I can say without hesitation (barring the occasional business prodigy)that you lack alot to make educated decisions in the business world based on what info you have provided.

Quote:

dude, that is the fucking definition of bigotry right there.




well in an interview you give a resume of your experience, it's not bigotry at all. If a 10 year old came into my office and wanted to be a project manager i'd definatly question his/her abilities.


Quote:

seems to me you would be ommitting the factor of recency of education. Colleges are better now than they were 10 years ago.




I was leaving education out since you have none. as for being better, that's debateable. More technical perhaps, but not better. I was in College 10 years ago and I was also in school in 2001.

Quote:

That dude with 10 years of experience probably grew up watching black and white television. I grew up surfing the internet. You really think that old geezer is more qualified than me You dont know how many "experienced" business people I have had to teach how to use MS office




I don't even know how to respond to something that stupid.

Quote:

sorry, but my position is one of a child who constantly corrects his parents and elders from making stupid mistakes when it comes to everything from driving to computers. They know damn well that I am more suited to this world than them, which indeed is as it should be: its called 'evolution'.




and you say you're not full of yourself? I'd suggest removing the word "Doctor" from your user name.

Quote:

anyway, experience doesnt always equal capability.




never said it does, But it's an indicator to go by. The aplicant still has to open his/her mouth.

Quote:

Anything you can do, I can do better




I'll take that bet. I have a job and can keep it, can you?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (07/21/04 03:03 PM)

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2912770 - 07/21/04 03:08 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I don't even know how to respond to something that stupid.



Like this.....

:rotfl:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2912776 - 07/21/04 03:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

that emo should be renamed to

:youmustbejoking,dumbass:


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2912777 - 07/21/04 03:11 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

If this is our future, we're fucked. :shake:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
    #2912778 - 07/21/04 03:12 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

See if you can arrange it. It'll still be usefull no matter what it's called.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2912780 - 07/21/04 03:13 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
If this is our future, we're fucked. :shake:



We are fucked.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912782 - 07/21/04 03:15 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

but for someone to be fired over something so inane and trivial is just stupid.

I mean, she dedicated a song to a fellow artist and praised one work of his in particular. I didn't even see it as a political statement, more like an artistic homage.

the decision to terminate her employment for this reason was sensationalist and irrational, and I predict it will ultimately result in more problems than it solved for the business. Now, if they had fired her for some other reason, ie: she sucks, then I would have had no problem with that




Wow...did you not even bother reading the thread? It has been established that she WAS NOT FIRED BECAUSE OF THE VIEWS SHE ESPOUSED, she was fired because she made a significant portion of the people who came to see her perform UNHAPPY.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2912788 - 07/21/04 03:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

He doesn't need to read, he's smart.

If you don't believe me, just ask him.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2912803 - 07/21/04 03:24 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

not only will he tell you but he'll remind you about 40 times. Still not convinced.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineRedo
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
    #2912856 - 07/21/04 03:45 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe theyll boo Whoopi off next.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2912916 - 07/21/04 04:09 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I'll try to avoid saying how smart or unsmart you are (you've said it about a hundred times)but you haven't a clue about what happens in the business world. Your generalizations are off and based on your extremely short work experience.





let me say this once more:  I think everyone in this forum (with a few exceptions) is very intelligent; otherwise, I would not be here.  The day I lose respect for the minds in this community is the day I cease to post here. 

given the sheer number and variance of the jobs I've had over the years, I would doubt the accuracy of your assesment of my analysis.  I'm a job hopper, and a jack of all trades.  Not to mention I read a lot, study a lot, and have a lot of friends of whom I ask a lot of questions. 

Quote:

yet you still don't adapt. Humans and other higher life forms exist because they adapt. It seems as though you're unwilling to adapt and as a little dose of reality for you, if you don't adapt in the business world, you don't exist.





I find it highly interesting how this statement directly conflicts with your otherwise very Mercurian, western view of man's relationship to reality.  Seriously, read that statement again ^  Are you a buddhist, dude?  Is life just a movie to be passively percieved?  Arent you basically just telling me to "go with the flow, man"?  Where's the old inny?  The rigid moralist, always taking stands on everything?  If the government tried to impose taxes and regulations you wouldn't 'go with the flow', but if a private business tried to do violate your rights in the same way, you would just 'adapt to it'? 

Quote:

no you don't. You've said it yourself of the biggotry, cronyism, and other bad traights businesses have as the reason you haven't got anywhere. 




who said i hadnt gotten anywhere?  All I'm saying is that everywhere I have gotten had everything to do with my own merit and little to do with employers offering regular positions.  Regular jobs have always been an anchor around my neck, and they don't tend to agree with my psychological disposition.  My skills are more valuable in the world of independant contracting.

Its just sad because it doesnt have to be that way.  Its also sad because these huge corporations are ripping people off on consumer goods and services which can be made and performed better and cheaper by small independant businessmen.  If people were smart, they would buy internet access from the local guy that is always cheaper and more reliable.  But people are dumb.  They buy AOL.  And AOL hires, overpromotes, and overpays idiots who drive around drunk on the expressway saturday night in their brand new beamers (they tend to hire the same bad consumers that buy their own product.  keep the money in the hands of idiots.  this is their perrogative)  Its just sad, thats all. 

Quote:

yeah but I don't give up like you, I adapt. I say "that sucks" then I think of ways and things I can do to avoid getting myself into that position again. I use my brain.





adaptation doesnt necessarily mean putting up with unjust bullshit.  Adapatation could be quitting your job when your boss asks you to work overtime off the clock, walking down the street, and getting a new job the same day. 

You like to use your brain too, eh?  What if it were crippled by coporate policy?  What would you do then other than grin and bear it or quit and find a new means of income? 

Quote:

how would you know? Was your last job responsibility screening candidates for hire?




I have done that before.  I have a enough experience on either side of the job interview table to be comfortable in either situation, lets put it that way. 

Quote:

  You claim to have all this vast knowledge with absolutly no background in it. Even someone as smart as you would know that that's rediculous.





wtf?  social psych was my primary area of study until I started my study of nueroscience last year.  What, may I ask, are your degrees in?  (think you told me a long time ago you had a bachelors and a masters, the latter of which I must admit I have not achieved yet)

Quote:

I'm sorry but there are rules in this game, if you don't want to play by them do something in life where you don't need to follow others




As I have done.  I simply see it as sad and unecessary that in order to work with a large organization, I would have to cripple myself in order to get along with others.  Constructive, applicable rules are one thing; arbitrary and ineffective rules are quite another. 

Quote:

Possibly, what do you base this on?




my study of social psychology.  It really is fascinating stuff.  You should look into it sometime.  The people who write the campaign speeches you hear and the television commercials you see certainly know all about it, and you should too.  Psychic self-defense and well being, brother :smile:

Quote:

HA, no my wife is quite happy with where I am professionally and fiscally (I have no kids). I'm not comfortable with you talking about my balls.





oops, sorry about that.  I confused you with another member who does have children.  my sincerest apologies. 

Quote:

I was referring to a professional environment. 




'professional environment' is something I have yet to see, even in work environments which have advertised themselves as such, and made great pains to appear as such. 

Quote:

I was leaving education out since you have none.




ahem, once again you are wrong.  I have completed all required hours for my psych degree and am currently persuing my masters.  I've told you this before.  Memory gettin a little spotty there old timer? 

Quote:

and you say you're not full of yourself? I'd suggest removing the word "Doctor" from your user name.





I bet you hate my title too, right?  The reason I take control is because if I didnt in most situations, things would go horribly wrong.  Is it being 'full of myself' to want to help people and advise them from making stupid decisions?  When my mother wants to give half of her retirement money away to some televangelist and I tell her its the stupidest idea I've ever fucking heard am I being 'full of myself'?????  Maybe you're right, maybe I should just shut the fuck up for awhile and let everyone fuck their lives up.  Its not my life right?  Why should I give a fuck?  Its less competition for me right?  I should be glad that people are so stupid.  Boy, how could I have been such a jerk, trying to offer my help to people instead of just laughing at them and taking advantage of their problems. 

 
Quote:

I'll take that bet. I have a job and can keep it, can you? 




Yeah, I can do it.  But I'm smart enough to have no desire to.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2912939 - 07/21/04 04:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Quote:

but for someone to be fired over something so inane and trivial is just stupid.

I mean, she dedicated a song to a fellow artist and praised one work of his in particular. I didn't even see it as a political statement, more like an artistic homage.

the decision to terminate her employment for this reason was sensationalist and irrational, and I predict it will ultimately result in more problems than it solved for the business. Now, if they had fired her for some other reason, ie: she sucks, then I would have had no problem with that




Wow...did you not even bother reading the thread? It has been established that she WAS NOT FIRED BECAUSE OF THE VIEWS SHE ESPOUSED, she was fired because she made a significant portion of the people who came to see her perform UNHAPPY.




poor show. thats a matter of opinion and hasn't been factually established at all. You're really reaching here. You can't just put a spin on something and call it the truth.

You think that the quarter of the audience that left had nothing to do with the minority of rabble rousers that started a fracas over this nonsense?

Are you saying that If I had a concert, expressed a controversial opinion, and a small group of druken hoodlums started tearing the venue up and people started leaving, that the people who left would be my fault and not the fault of those hoodlums who behaved inappropriately for no reason?

How do you know that the crowd didnt leave because of the rabble-rousers and not because of ronstadt's oratory?

whatever, I'm not even going to argue this when its clear you've made up your mind based on scant evidence.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2912960 - 07/21/04 04:25 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Fuck you, I can't stand it anymore. Ban me if you must but the good doctor sounds like one of the biggest self-impressed assholes I have ever had the displeasure to come in contact with. 23 and has the world all figured out. And social psychology his main study. If ever there was a wanker degree it's that. I have a psych degree and I thought that was a wank but sociology was worse. He has combined two wanks in one degree. And figured out the world at 23. We must all go in mourning because he has decided to withold his immense talents. Ah well, hopefully my children won't suffer too much. WHAT A FUCKING ASSHOLE


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2912970 - 07/21/04 04:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

:lol:

for someone who has a psych degree, i find it odd that your understanding of social psych is so rudimentary.  It has nothing to do with sociology, dumbass.  Sociology is the study of groups of people, social psych is the study of individuals in social situations. 

where did you get your degree, out of a cracker jack box? :lol:  Thanks for illustrating my point that a degree obtained 20 years ago should not hold the same weight as a degree obtained 2 years ago. 

degrees are as hard as you make them.  I dont take blow off classes.  For every theoretical psych class I've taken, I've taken three classes based in hard science.  Organic Chemistry.  Nuerophysiology.  The Principles of Synaptic Transmission.  Stuff like that.  mmmkay?  night night, grandpa.

edit: funny you have such a low opinion of social psych, because George W Bush doesnt share your feelings.  At least two high ranking members of his campaign have PhD's in social psych.  They know its power, and so should you, if you hope to defend yourself against it.

Edited by DoctorJ (07/21/04 05:42 PM)

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Offlinecoralrives
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2913572 - 07/21/04 07:19 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
He doesn't need to read, he's smart.

If you don't believe me, just ask him.




:thumbup:


--------------------
"Be good and you will be lonesome."
Mark Twain


Grow Log



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2913676 - 07/21/04 07:49 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Similar stuff for me too. Physio psych, hemispheric specialization, psycholinguistics. Plus chem and calc., Comparative primate anatomy, ethics, lit., chess, oceanography. Soc. and poli sci. Been there done that. I have a low opinion of soc psych because I know it isn't science. I am gaining a low opinion of you because you are acting like a blowhard


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2913721 - 07/21/04 08:05 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

This thread is so far off topic there is no longer hope for recovery.

Locked.

pinky


--------------------

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