|
Evolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
#2911987 - 07/21/04 10:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Maybe you turn people off because you're too full of yourself. It doesn't matter how smart you are, people generally don't like to be around a self-important know it all who thinks he's above everybody else. It's not good for the customers either.
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
#2912010 - 07/21/04 11:01 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
its the anonymnity of the internet that makes me this way.
IRL I am very humble and often quite shy and reserved.
Ironically what you have said is untrue, at least in my experience. Employers tend to dig overconfidence and egotism.
For example:
One HR guy I talked to once said that he used a particular tactic in selecting applicants for a particular position: He would interview each applicant, then when they called back the next day to get the job, he would tell them that he found a better candidate. If they simply said "thanks for your time, sorry I couldnt work for you", then they were out of the running. If however, the applicant argued with the HR guy that they were a better candidate than whomever he had in mind, they were immeadiately asked to a second interview.
The HR guy's reasoning of course, is that the applicants protest showed self-confidence and initiative.
But all this really measures is the applicants ego. Its certainly not an accurate predictor of job performance. And yet HR people use lame-brained tactics like this ALL THE TIME.
should I also mention the studies which have shown that more physically attractive people tend to get positions over less attractive people who are more qualified for thoise positions?
should I also mention the studies which have shown that racial minorities tend to be judged more harshly by HR departments than equally qualified white applicants?
Anyone who thinks the hiring process is based solely in merit could not be further from the truth.
|
Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!


Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
#2912036 - 07/21/04 11:09 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
perhaps your perception of this matter has been skewed by your involvement in it.
that's a cop out.
I hire people so I know what and who is being considered for what reason. I have never been told to go out and get the guy/girl who will not think and jusat do. You sound as if you just have a chip on your sholder.
Quote:
no one had to 'tell me'; its something I've learned from experience and observation. Spare me the recitation of you HR department's mission statement; you know damn well that often what a company says it does and what the company actually does are two different things.
you sound like a defeatist. I don't know you but i'm guessing that you've never been in a position of authority. (I could be wrong). What I said wasn't from any mission statement rather it was what I use as a criteria when someone is hired. If i hire a dumb person, it makes me look bad and my work that much harder.
Quote:
People are generally threatened by intelligence, or anything else too far off the belle curve. People tend to fear things that are different from them, and this basic human psychological trait effects the workplace in ways you cant imagine.
you seem to be the only one who thinks you are highly intellegent. You can be the smartest person on earth but that doesn't make you a good worker. Do you sacrifice? Work long hours? go above and beyond what is expected of you? I'd guess no because if you're as smart as you've told us you are you would of figured that one out on your own.
Quote:
indeed it is. apparently curioisity, adherance to reason, and dynamic nonconformity are not things the corporate world looks for in its employees.
Curiosity is welcomed because employers like people who are interested in the job they seek, reason is relative and just because you say you're smart you lack experience, as for the nonconfomity thing I have to laugh because that's reserved for children going through their teenage years. A business has a direction as I said before, if you don't want to go into that direction, start your own business.
Quote:
Its everyone else I'm worried about. You see I've come to depend on businesses for my standard of living, and I wouldnt want them to collapse because they hired a bunch of idiots instead of a 'loose cannon' such as myself.
a loose cannon? and you wonder why you can't get a job. I's concentrate on doing a good job on the job you were hired for.
Quote:
Is it so hard for you to grasp the idea that I might be an asset to a company, yet still be a detriment to an individual within that company?
i'm not the one you have to convince. you can lie on the floor beating your hands and feet like a baby all day and that will get you absolutly nowhere. You have to prove you are worth. Personally if I had someone like you who wouldn't follow company protocal (according to what the business wants) i'd fire you on the spot. Real workers don't have time for childish people.
As for being an individual at work (which takes away from the team mentality) tyou can still do that if you're willing to push the company forward with your ideas into the direction they want to go.
Quote:
dude, you are such a tool.
I'm also the tool that does the hiring and firing. Someone as angry as yourself would never have to be worried about being fired from an high level job because I doubt you are smart enough to get to that level. Use your head to advance and quit yer crying.
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
|
trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
#2912088 - 07/21/04 11:23 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I work in a professional environment (an international technical support corporation)...or at least that's what it's supposed to be! I know first hand what you are talking about: intelligence and resourcefulness are not the most highly prized aspects...those at the top just look for people who will just do what they're told. I have watched people get promoted ahead of me and be told by my immediate superiors that those people don't know what they're doing...that I should have had the posistion ahead of them. Instead the people with less skill and less knowledge are promoted simply because they kiss some corporate ass.
I do a damned fine job at work. My peers all see this and compliment me on it. It's nice to get compliments...but it would be much nicer to get a promotion.
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
|
afoaf
CEO DBK?


Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
#2912099 - 07/21/04 11:26 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
should I also mention the studies which have shown that more physically attractive people tend to get positions over less attractive people who are more qualified for thoise positions?
should I also mention the studies which have shown that racial minorities tend to be judged more harshly by HR departments than equally qualified white applicants?
I see...so you're an ugly beaner?
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
#2912103 - 07/21/04 11:26 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Are you at work right now?
pinky
--------------------
|
Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!


Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
#2912116 - 07/21/04 11:30 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
but he's a genius.
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
#2912145 - 07/21/04 11:39 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I have never been told to go out and get the guy/girl who will not think and jusat do.
dude, I dont know you, and I havent seen you do your job, so I cant say whether or not you would make all the typical mistakes that HR people tend to make. I'm willing to admit you seem more intelligent than most of the people I've met who work in that field. Did you hear that? Despite the fact that I disagree with you, I still acknowledge your intelligence. Perhaps you could learn from a young'un like me.
besides, it wasnt my point that you would be ordered to make such decisions, it was only my point that perhaps the predjudices inherent in all human minds (including my own) keep HR people from making objective decisions in the interest of the outfit they work for.
Quote:
I don't know you but i'm guessing that you've never been in a position of authority.
then you have guessed wrong. I the past I have been in charge of the management and training of teams consisting of 20 or more people.
Quote:
If i hire a dumb person, it makes me look bad and my work that much harder.
Or it could protect your position from those lower level employees who would seek to dethrone you.
Quote:
you seem to be the only one who thinks you are highly intellegent.
If that were true, I would not think of myself in such a way.
Quote:
You can be the smartest person on earth but that doesn't make you a good worker. Do you sacrifice? Work long hours? go above and beyond what is expected of you? I'd guess no because if you're as smart as you've told us you are you would of figured that one out on your own.
I do what I'm paid to do, nothing more, nothing less. Why should I go above and beyond if a company refuses to compensate me adequately for it? How is that an even exchange?
Quote:
reason is relative and just because you say you're smart you lack experience
'lack of experience'!! what a classic example! I am an auto-diadact, and this is often held against me. Because I teach things to myself, and do not require instruction in order to figure most things out, I have tons of experience but no documentation to back it up. It seems to me that it would be in a company's best interest to hire someone who took the initiative to figure something out by himself, rather than the average joe who signed up and completed a bunch of classes which may or may not have given him the depth of understanding that I achieved on my own under my own instruction. But this is not the case; most companies will hire the complacent fools who sat through all the certification classes, even though their only motivation in doing so was not to learn, but to become qualified for certain jobs.
Quote:
as for the nonconfomity thing I have to laugh because that's reserved for children going through their teenage years. A business has a direction as I said before, if you don't want to go into that direction, start your own business.
sometimes a broader, more open-minded perspective is required to usher a company into the future, especially during periods of great technological advance. Most of the people who built and designed the first computers were nonconformist hippies who wouldn't have a chance in hell of being hired at Apple today.
as for starting my own business, well... be careful what you ask for 
Quote:
i'm not the one you have to convince. you can lie on the floor beating your hands and feet like a baby all day and that will get you absolutly nowhere. You have to prove you are worth. Personally if I had someone like you who wouldn't follow company protocal (according to what the business wants) i'd fire you on the spot. Real workers don't have time for childish people.
As for being an individual at work (which takes away from the team mentality) tyou can still do that if you're willing to push the company forward with your ideas into the direction they want to go.
obviously you didnt understand my original question, because you didnt answer it.
businesses are made of individuals, and individuals are inherently selfish. I could have the best idea in the world to increase productivity and one selfish person in the right position could squash it out of fear that my idea might outshine their own performance in the eyes of their superiors. Or worse yet, they could steal my idea and take the credit for it. This shit happens all the time.
Quote:
I'm also the tool that does the hiring and firing. Someone as angry as yourself would never have to be worried about being fired from an high level job because I doubt you are smart enough to get to that level.
thank you for that perfect example of the same HR bigotry that keeps smart people out of good jobs. You've judged my intelligence negatively simply because I disagree with you. I bet you are a real non-biased interviewer
|
coralrives
Adventurer

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2912146 - 07/21/04 11:40 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
"I didn't even know there was trouble," she said. "Those places operate like little city-states. They are all-powerful. And I had already said I never want to come back."
 The casino's president said he didn't allow the singer back in her luxury suite afterward and she was escorted off the property.
Ronstadt, 58, told the Times her remarks were "modest," adding: "They didn't throw me out."
what a cunt..ROFLMAO
"This is an election year," she told the Los Angeles Times Tuesday. "I want people to get their head up out of their mashed potatoes and learn something about the issues and go and vote. ... I'm not telling them how to vote. I'm saying, get information about the issues."
Boy, I'm glad shes giving out advice on how I should get my information. I'm gonna have to rethink everything now... Oh boy.....
-------------------- "Be good and you will be lonesome." Mark Twain Grow Log
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: trendal]
#2912149 - 07/21/04 11:41 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I have watched people get promoted ahead of me and be told by my immediate superiors that those people don't know what they're doing...that I should have had the posistion ahead of them. Instead the people with less skill and less knowledge are promoted simply because they kiss some corporate ass.
I have seen the same thing happen many times, unfortunately 
its the aristocracy of pull...
|
coralrives
Adventurer

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
#2912155 - 07/21/04 11:44 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DoctorJ said: Quote:
I have watched people get promoted ahead of me and be told by my immediate superiors that those people don't know what they're doing...that I should have had the posistion ahead of them. Instead the people with less skill and less knowledge are promoted simply because they kiss some corporate ass.
I have seen the same thing happen many times, unfortunately 
its the aristocracy of pull...
INteresting, I have seen the same thing happen many time, only NOT because of ass kissing, (which like it or not is a technique to get promoted) But because of afirmative action! Is that ok in the eyes of you Libs? (liberals and libertarians)
-------------------- "Be good and you will be lonesome." Mark Twain Grow Log
|
silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
#2912163 - 07/21/04 11:46 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You'll find very little support for affirmative action among us libertarians, and even many liberals on this forum have come out against it.
--------------------
  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
|
coralrives
Adventurer

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: silversoul7]
#2912166 - 07/21/04 11:46 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Goiod to know that y'all arent cool-aid libs then
-------------------- "Be good and you will be lonesome." Mark Twain Grow Log
|
Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: coralrives]
#2912174 - 07/21/04 11:49 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
But because of afirmative action! Is that ok in the eyes of you Libs? (liberals and libertarians)
ANY government mandated quota based on race or whatever is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE in the mind of libertarians. Reverse racism is all affirmative action is.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: afoaf]
#2912182 - 07/21/04 11:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
afoaf said: Quote:
should I also mention the studies which have shown that more physically attractive people tend to get positions over less attractive people who are more qualified for thoise positions?
should I also mention the studies which have shown that racial minorities tend to be judged more harshly by HR departments than equally qualified white applicants?
I see...so you're an ugly beaner?

no, I wouldnt call myself that, but I have been denied a good number of jobs because I 'looked young'
seriously, I'm 23, but I could easily be mistaken for 16. Most people dont want to hire a man that looks as young as I do. Not that they could give you a logical reason for not hiring me, mind you, they might say something like "He just doesnt look very responsible", or "Putting him in a position of authority may cause problems".
again, I will state that anyone who thinks that hiring and promtion processes are based solely on merit are far from the truth. Petty, ultimately meaningless factors play a much bigger role in an applicant's selection for employment than most people are willing to acknowledge.
|
Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!


Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
#2912196 - 07/21/04 12:02 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
WOW, 23 and you have the business world figured out. hmmph. 5 whole years in the real world.
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
|
coralrives
Adventurer

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 174
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
#2912208 - 07/21/04 12:08 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
again, I will state that anyone who thinks that hiring and promtion processes are based solely on merit are far from the truth. Petty, ultimately meaningless factors play a much bigger role in an applicant's selection for employment than most people are willing to acknowledge.
Take responsibility for your self and figure out the real reason you didnt get hired. If it was a popularity contest, you lost. If it was an ass kissing contest, you lost, if it was merit based, you lost. Dont blame the system like a true liberal, blame yourself for not adapting. Remember YOU applied for the position! So Don't talk about how bad the people hiring are. If they were evil, why did you apply in the first place?
-------------------- "Be good and you will be lonesome." Mark Twain Grow Log
|
afoaf
CEO DBK?


Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
#2912210 - 07/21/04 12:08 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
meh...it all depends.
I've been places where the blowhard shitbags get all the breaks.
and I've been places where hard work was rewarded.
you can't judge the entire corporate system based on a couple entry-level positions (or whatever) that you've managed to land in the last 5 years.
depends on field, depends on position, depends on the company, depends on how hot that coworker of yours is and how well he/she sucks the bosses dick.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
|
DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Innvertigo]
#2912228 - 07/21/04 12:15 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
you know your attitude is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Here, I have identified a serious problem in our workforce, the occurance of which has been backed by both psychological research and the testimony of several people.
The impact of this problem causes decreased operational efficiency in day to day business. Taking steps to solve the problem, therefore, could increase productivity.
And yet you dont want to hear it, you dont want to open your eyes and acknowledge the truth. Because what I am saying conflicts with the beliefs you hold dear, and your own bigotry keeps you from really hearing what I am saying.
You've already proved your bigotry by making fun of my age. How many times have you participated in age discrimination while performing duties for the company at which you are employed? Do you really believe that age is an accurate predictor of mental fortitude past the age at which people are declared non-minors? I know a few brilliant 13 year olds and a few idiotic 50 year olds that would make quick work of your statistical analysis.
How many ideas have you squashed because you didn't like the person from whose mind they originated? I bet you are a highly proficient manager
|
Evolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
|
Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: DoctorJ]
#2912249 - 07/21/04 12:27 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Still wet behind the ears and knows everything...
Put down that sugary soda, get your teeth fixed, realize that your attitude WILL be picked up on by other people even though you think you're hiding it. Contrary to what your inflated ego tells you, you are not the pinnacle of human evolution. Your inability to get a position is YOUR inability to get a position - quit blaming everybody else. Grow some balls and stop your whining. Who ever promised you that everything would be handed to you on a silver platter? Life's not easy, deal with it!
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
|
|