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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Evolving]
#2909547 - 07/20/04 05:57 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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So it is who says it, not what was said then...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Phred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909655 - 07/20/04 06:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami's first post says:
Quote:
Whatever you think of Moore, this should appall every American here who still believes in Free Speech and opposes fascism.
Swami, the reason you're getting raked over the coals here is that you are equating the behavior of private individuals with government suppression of expression of thought. Fascism is a form of government. A casino manager firing a performer is not an example of fascism. It is an example of good business sense.
As for "Free Speech" -- what does this incident have to do with Ronstadt's right to speak freely? She spoke her mind and got a response to what she said. Was she imprisoned? Nope. Was she charged with a crime? Nope. Was she beaten up? Nope. Was she ripped off for her fee? Nope. Is she free to repeat the same comments in a bar, on the street, at her next gig? Yep.
Actions have consequences. Ronstadt made the cardinal professional performer's sin of misreading her audience. Too bad, so sad.
pinky
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Evolving
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909710 - 07/20/04 06:48 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said: So it is who says it, not what was said then...
My statement was meant to be a smart ass remark.
Actually, it probably has to do with what she said and how it affected the audience. There's a reason it's called 'The Music Business' and casinos and hotels are in the business of pleasing their customers. If the customers aren't happy, it's not good for the bottom line, regardless of the political opinions of those involved. If the customers become upset with a performer and start vandalizing your facilities, that's doubly bad. Besides, last I saw Linda Ronstadt had attained a girth equal to that of a large domestic grazing animal... it probably cost the management too much to feed her so it's best she be put out to pasture.
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
#2909719 - 07/20/04 06:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami, the reason you're getting raked over the coals here is that you are equating the behavior of private individuals with government suppression of expression of thought. Fascism is a form of government. Are you also saying that there is no such thing as corporate fascism? I also said "should anger those that oppose fascism". Should we always wait until a problem is too big to deal with before noting a possible warning sign? Caribbean Resident : Well, we better start boarding our house because a hurricane is coming. Pinky: 50 MPH winds are not technically a hurricane. Caribbean Resident: Right. Wait until they hit 120 mph. A casino manager firing a performer is not an example of fascism. It is an example of good business sense. The performance was essentially over. Refusing to let her go to her hotel room did not make their clientele any safer nor did that have anything to do with her wages. That was indicative of an emotional response from the manager and not a business response. Actions have consequences. Ronstadt made the cardinal professional performer's sin of misreading her audience. Too bad, so sad. You think this is news merely because an entertainer misread her audience or maybe because it reflects a whole new climate of what is or is not permissible to say publicly?
Edited by Swami (07/20/04 07:13 PM)
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HagbardCeline
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909778 - 07/20/04 07:02 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Her activities were certainly curtailed; i.e. cut short; of the planned activities.
The "plan" probably didn't include her remark as part of the show.
And just so I can help reinforce the idea of those who hold the opinion that I'm a kool-aid drinking, neo-con Republican, I think they did they right thing. I'm tired of hearing entertainers use their positions as a soapbox to enunciate their political sentiments in inappropriate forums. I hope this sends a message to others who might have done something similar.
-------------------- I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine
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Phred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909840 - 07/20/04 07:16 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami writes:
You think this is news...
In a world less dominated by left-leaning press, this wouldn't be national news at all. A performer made ill-advised remarks and got fired for it. How is this news outside of the Las Vegas entertainment circuit? It isn't.
... merely because an entertainer misread her audience or maybe because it reflects a whole new climate of what is or is not permissible to say publicly?
Re-read my remarks. Actions have consequences. It has nothing to do with what is "permissible", or any "new climate". It is strictly a business decision. If a performer pisses off the very people you are trying to attract as a business owner, it is wise to remove that performer. It matters not if they piss off your customers by doing an unanticipated striptease act or by using foul language or by insulting audience members or by trying to convert them to Mormonism or by praising Osama bin Laden. What counts is that the very person you are paying to boost your business is instead damaging it.
This is nothing more than a case of a professional performer acting in an unprofessional manner and having a gig cancelled because of it. It certainly isn't the first time it's happened. It certainly won't be the last.
A tempest in a teapot.
pinky
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: HagbardCeline]
#2909846 - 07/20/04 07:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have yet to go to a single concert where a performer has not expressed some opinion on some subject. And yet, I have never seen that in any program listing - how strange. At 9:15 PM the performer will make the following spontaneous remarks:...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
#2909872 - 07/20/04 07:24 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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How is this news outside of the Las Vegas entertainment circuit? It isn't. Was on Fox News and O'Reilly. Did not realize they were part of the LV entertainment circuit.
In a world less dominated by left-leaning press Fox News and O'Reilly are left-leaning? 
Guess we should take whatever you say as the final word despite these errors.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Phred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909883 - 07/20/04 07:26 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami asks in his edit:
Are you also saying that there is no such thing as corporate fascism?
Yes. Fascism by definition is a form of government. What is so hard to grasp about this?
Should we always wait until a problem is too big to deal with before noting a possible warning sign?
What "problem" are you talking about? How is the fact that from time to time an entertainer puts his/her foot in his/her mouth a dire national "problem"? Ronstadt fucked up. The one paying for the gig reacted to her fuckup. Case closed, story over. Time to move on. No need for new legislation.
Refusing to let her go to her hotel room did not make their clientele any safer nor did that have anything to do with her wages. That was indicative of an emotional response from the manager and not a business response.
Incorrect. By reacting as he did, he showed the offended audience members that he was on their side. They were outraged: he was also outraged. A kindred soul, and one who was just as shocked and sandbagged as they were. Not only was this indeed a business decision, it was an excellent business decision. A canny manager might have done even more: perhaps offer all those who wished it a free ticket to the show of the next performer at the casino to make up for their spoiled evening.
pinky
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Phred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909907 - 07/20/04 07:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I saw the article on CNN and Yahoo news, with an AP tag. I have no idea who "broke" the story. I just presumed it was originally reported by some Las Vegas local paper (maybe the Sun?) and once AP picked it up and ran with it, all the usual suspects got into it as well.
The fact of the matter is that this is not news. I repeat, performers have been yanked many times in the past for pissing off audiences, and they will undoubtedly continue to be yanked for pissing off audiences in the future.
pinky
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
#2909909 - 07/20/04 07:34 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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The evening, as you put it ,was not spoiled. The audience gave her a standing ovation and Desperado was the encore song dedicated to Moore. They got their money's worth.
The audience did not know (at the time) that Ronstadt was not allowed to return to her hotel room.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Phred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909913 - 07/20/04 07:35 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami writes:
I have yet to go to a single concert where a performer has not expressed some opinion on some subject.
I've been to dozens.
pinky
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Phred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909926 - 07/20/04 07:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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It was certainly spoiled for some. And no, the audience didn't know at the time they were leaving the venue which actions the casino management would take. They do now.
As for how this relates to politics, activism, or law, I'm with Baby_Hitler on this one. There is no relation to any of the three. No laws were broken, no politicians were involved. Ronstadt made an error. She paid for it. This is no plot by Bush or PNAC -- it is a casino manager doing what he is paid to do.
What's the big deal? I say again -- tempest in a teapot.
pinky
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Phred]
#2909931 - 07/20/04 07:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've been to dozens.
And they didn't even say how pleased they were to be in your city and that you were a wonderful audience? Were they mute or are you talking about classical concerts?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Phred
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909955 - 07/20/04 07:46 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami writes:
And they didn't even say how pleased they were to be in your city and that you were a wonderful audience? Were they mute or are you talking about classical concerts?
Let me see. The four times I saw Jethro Tull -- nope. The Who -- nope. The many times I saw Pink Floyd, Emerson Lake and Palmer -- nope. The three or four times I saw Yes -- nope. King Crimson -- nope. Ravi Shankar -- nope. Phillip Glass -- nope. Supertramp -- nope. Kodo Drummers of Japan? Nope. None of them even mentioned the city they were playing in.
They got on stage, put on excellent shows, and let the music speak for itself with no commentary of any kind between songs. Then they left the stage. My kind of show.
pinky
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Meat_Log_Smurf
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2909978 - 07/20/04 07:52 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Typical Swami spin. Keep spinnin them wheels man. As usual you left out a key part. I don't know if anyone posted this but: Before her concert, Ronstadt had laughingly told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that she hoped that the casino performance would be her last. "I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back," she was quoted as telling the newspaper. Maybe someone over heard her, and came to the conclusion that she hated the place. Then thought why don't we just kick this cunt out the door? I am sorry one of your favs got kicked out of the casino but they had every right to. She did her show then she left. Maybe escorted out but it was a one show gig anyway.
Edited by Meat_Log_Smurf (07/20/04 08:35 PM)
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HypnoToad
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Meat_Log_Smurf]
#2910025 - 07/20/04 08:04 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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What I find hilarious is that so many people are letting emotions control them even though the event affected no one in any way other than Linda Ronstadt.She is probably banned from Aladdin.Thats it.She was escorted out and that was it.No one knows if the owner had opposing views or not so fascism cannot be even be claimed.This whole topic is nothing but heresay with little knowledge of actual events.None this information even matters anyway.lmao
Not even one person here will be affected by this event.lol
-------------------- "There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Meat_Log_Smurf]
#2910037 - 07/20/04 08:06 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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As usual you left out a key part. I saw nothing about that quote. Give me the paper reference and I will look up your alleged quote. I want to see it in print BEFORE the concert else it is just most -likely heresay added on.
"I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back," she was quoted as telling the newspaper. That makes sense. She voluntarily takes a show that she does not want to do.
I am sorry one of your favs got kicked out of the casino... Yet another poster with a severe reading disorder.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: HypnoToad]
#2910044 - 07/20/04 08:09 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Not even one person here will be affected by this event.lol
No, but we get to kill some time, become all righteous and get all fired up for free.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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HypnoToad
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Re: Linda Ronstadt booted from Aladdin [Re: Swami]
#2910127 - 07/20/04 08:33 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lmao True.It is also quite amusing to watch sometimes.
-------------------- "There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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