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coralrives
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Berger and CLinton
#2907619 - 07/20/04 06:10 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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sandy Berger steals top secret info from the archives and takes notes, also illegal. He said he inadvertently put documents in his clothes... and he accidently "discarded" some documents... These documents had to do with the Clinton Admin's handling of terrorist threats. Its ok, Im sure this is all just part of the vast right wing conspiracy. I wonder if CNN is even covering this....hmmm.....
-------------------- "Be good and you will be lonesome." Mark Twain Grow Log
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Innvertigo
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: coralrives]
#2907627 - 07/20/04 06:21 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Bush knew and did nothing. Elect Kerry.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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coralrives
Adventurer

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2907628 - 07/20/04 06:22 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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What an astute statement..... This guy works for the Kerry campaign bud, this is huge
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: coralrives]
#2907629 - 07/20/04 06:22 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Dont let this distract you or allow you to justify the carnage Bush & Co. have cooked up.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: GazzBut]
#2907632 - 07/20/04 06:25 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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what does this have to do with Bush?
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2907640 - 07/20/04 06:37 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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It seems to me that this sort of thing allows people who support the opposite object to the one being criticised, to become distracted from any negative attributes of their chosen object or even in some twisted sense use negative attributes of the opposite object to justify the negative attributes of their chosen object.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: GazzBut]
#2907643 - 07/20/04 06:41 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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you got all that from the original post? I believe you're shutting your eyes to what's being asked. Also you're not even American, how does this concern you?
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: coralrives]
#2907644 - 07/20/04 06:42 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lemme see if I got this... a few files are missing from some archive and we start a justice department probe... evidence of torture of prisoners of war which goes against international law and we ignore it... must be an election year.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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st0nedphucker
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Seuss]
#2907648 - 07/20/04 06:47 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah......
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2907665 - 07/20/04 07:07 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I didnt get all this from the first post. There has been another thread about it. And as for it being an Americans only subject, the principle Im talking about applies all over. Regardless of that, I will comment on whatever I choose to!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: GazzBut]
#2907696 - 07/20/04 07:34 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I guess you told me.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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coralrives
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Seuss]
#2907706 - 07/20/04 07:39 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: Lemme see if I got this... a few files are missing from some archive and we start a justice department probe... evidence of torture of prisoners of war which goes against international law and we ignore it... must be an election year.
Hmm typical liberal, changing the subject. BTW what was the tourture? The panties on the head or the naked pyramid, oh, maybe it was THE BEHEADING???
This guy Berger STOLE top secret documents from the Archives there guy. That is kinda serious dontchathink?
-------------------- "Be good and you will be lonesome." Mark Twain Grow Log
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: coralrives]
#2907719 - 07/20/04 07:49 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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> Hmm typical liberal, changing the subject.
I hate to admit it, but I voted for Bush... (a mistake, I know... but I feel voting for Gore would have been a mistake as well... given the choice again, I probably would vote differently...) I am not a liberal or a conservative... I try to vote for whoever I think will be the least authoritative candidate... I thought Bush's past with drugs would make him a bit more sympathetic towards drug users... I was wrong.
I wasn't trying to change to topic... but rather to point out how screwed up our priorities become during an election year...
> This guy Berger STOLE top secret documents from the Archives there guy. That is kinda serious dontchathink?
I am much more worried about the missing files from Los Alamos and human rights violations performed by my employee, Mr. Bush and his apointees, on my behalf.
I'm not so worried about the nude soldiers or the panties... it is the people missing, according to the IRC, the people that died during interogations, the people that were shocked and electrocuted, the people that were left outside soaking wet in sub-zero temperatures, the people that were hung upside down by the ankles for days at a time... the torure... not the humiliation. Big difference.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2907755 - 07/20/04 08:11 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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"The panties on the head or the naked pyramid, oh, maybe it was THE BEHEADING???"
Thats a good example of what Im talking about right there.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!


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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: GazzBut]
#2907758 - 07/20/04 08:14 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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the topic changed unfortunatly, care to comment on the original post?
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2907767 - 07/20/04 08:27 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I already have done but if you want me to be a little more precise: I think it's a little naughty (in the grand scheme of political naughtiness that is!!) but hardly surprising. Im sure people have got away with worse in and around governments all over the world this week alone. Also,the guys political affiliation is irrelevant to me - to get back to my original point
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: GazzBut]
#2907771 - 07/20/04 08:30 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Im sure people have got away with worse in and around governments all over the world this week alone
so what. It's not my concern if another country does the same thing.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2907786 - 07/20/04 08:41 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good for you!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!


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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: GazzBut]
#2907845 - 07/20/04 09:06 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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you seem to be concerned with others problems more than you are with your own. Just thought I'd bring it up.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2907870 - 07/20/04 09:17 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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You dont think that might have something to do with the heavy american bias on this site? Anyway as I already pointed out I am more interested in the universals that apply to numerous systems of governance than concentrating on issues which so often only server to detract from the bigger problems..mmkay?
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: GazzBut]
#2908056 - 07/20/04 10:16 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
You dont think that might have something to do with the heavy american bias on this site?
well, it is sort of an American site (I think the admins are Canoodian though, who knows?)
Quote:
Anyway as I already pointed out I am more interested in the universals that apply to numerous systems of governance than concentrating on issues which so often only server to detract from the bigger problems..mmkay?
I'm coming from the clean your own house first point of view.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2908060 - 07/20/04 10:20 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Im coming from the 'we all live in the same neighbourhood, help thy neighbour' point of view!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!


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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: GazzBut]
#2908102 - 07/20/04 10:45 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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well we don't live in the same neighborhood and most times others don't need nor want the "help" other countries have to offer.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2908112 - 07/20/04 10:48 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good for you.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!


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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: GazzBut]
#2908169 - 07/20/04 11:09 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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not so much for you though.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Innvertigo]
#2908253 - 07/20/04 11:32 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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So what was in these missing files? Trying to get us back on topic here... does anybody know what they contained, or is it all speculation at this point?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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coralrives
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: Seuss]
#2908509 - 07/20/04 12:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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WASHINGTON ? Former President Clinton's national security adviser is under criminal investigation for taking highly classified terrorism documents that should have been turned over to the independent commission probing the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, FOX News has confirmed.
-------------------- "Be good and you will be lonesome." Mark Twain Grow Log
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JesusChrist
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: coralrives]
#2909075 - 07/20/04 03:19 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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You could have proof of John Kerry clubbing a baby seal and it would still turn into an anti Bush thread.
Let's keep these things on topic.
I doubt the guy would steal documents that weren't relavtive. Most probably he had some incentive to take them. They don't just accidentally get hidden in his clothing. My best guess is that he was covering his own ass, or the ass of a friend. That seems apparent to me, but since they are now "accidentally discarded" that will be hard to prove.
In my opinion, I would put him in jail. Make an example out of him so the next guy doesn't do it. That sort of thing is reprehensible behavior, and it has nothing to do with George Bush.
-------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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zappaisgod
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: coralrives]
#2909348 - 07/20/04 04:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Let me spell this out for you if you don't think this is a big deal.
Sandy Berger, Clinton's National Security Advisor, is called before the 9/11 Commission, perhaps one of the most important investigatory bodies this country has ever seen. Who screwed up and how is very important to discern. A big part of that is what did the Clinton administaration know and when did they know it. What recommendations were made and which were followed and which ignored and why. Also, who made these recommendations. Berger's testimony is huge to this enterprise, obviously.
So, on the grounds that he needs to have his memory refreshed, he is given access to the archives of confidential material. No documents are allowed to be removed, copied, or photographed. At all, under penalty of prosecution. It is a crime. I'm not even sure he was supposed to take notes. He was the National Security Advisor, he knows this. So he stuffs documents in his pants pertaining to recommendations made about how to respond to Al Qaeda. He gets caught with some but others have miraculously disappeared. He says, "I inadvertently took a few documents from the archives. He says, "I deeply regret the sloppiness involved." This asshole was chosen to be the National Security Advisor and he pleads SLOPPINESS. "I'm sorry, your honor, I was too drunk to see the stoplight when I plowed into that family." Let's not forget Deutch, who I think was head of the CIA before Tenet. He was about to accept a plea bargain for removing classified files on his laptop when Clinton gave him one of those midnight pardons.
The least of what Berger did was remove the documents. What he really did was impede the most important investigation this nation has ever seen. And he was formerly charged with the whole oversight of our national security just before the attacks. If you don't think this is a huge deal you are ignorant.
Another little sidebar is that the NY Times and Washington Post both buried this story deep inside. Front page material for the Times is an article about how trend setters are not tucking in their shirts.
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JesusChrist
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All The News Thats Fit To Print [Re: zappaisgod]
#2909446 - 07/20/04 05:13 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I like your little sidebar about the Times and the Post.
Imagine an alternate world where Rummy, the VP, Rice or Wolfowitz was under investigation for having stolen and destroyed classified documents relating to national defense.
That wouldn't be a front page story. That would be at least two dozen front pages stories. They would continue to hype every effort of the investigation and constantly look for new angles.
I feel sorry for the Old Gray Lady. I used to read it more often because I loved the international and in-depth coverage of all sorts of issues. They have bureaus all over the world and they have some really brilliant journalists. The NYT gets to pick the best of the best in the business. They have more resources than anyone. I didn't mind that they were left leaning back in the day because anyone growing up in this country has done so on a steady diet of liberal bias in the national news media. But at this point, partisan politics has so permeated their pages it is pathetic. How is that for a little alliteration?
Too often what they don?t cover is more telling than what they do. I think that they have lost a lot of credibility.
-------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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zappaisgod
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Re: All The News Thats Fit To Print [Re: JesusChrist]
#2909503 - 07/20/04 05:41 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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They, The Times, have hurt themselves badly. Anyway, this just in from WABC radio, Berger has removed himself as an advisor to the Kerry campaign. Inevitable step now that this has come out. However, he has been under investigation since I think January for this. Does anybody here think Kerry didn't know about this and use him anyway? Is this what we can expect from Kerry appointees, that they can do anything as long as they don't get caught?
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Evolving
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Re: All The News Thats Fit To Print [Re: zappaisgod]
#2909517 - 07/20/04 05:46 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Kerry's just another douche-bag politician, what should we expect from him?
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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JesusChrist
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Re: All The News Thats Fit To Print [Re: zappaisgod]
#2909536 - 07/20/04 05:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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It would be tough for Kerry to know about every Federal investigation, even when it is someone on his own staff. I don't know if Berger would have volunteered the info if Kerry didn't know, and I am not sure that the Feds are obligated to tell Kerry. Someone should ask him point blank if he knew about it prior to public disclosure. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody cares to ask that question. If he did know, it was a poor decision to keep him on.
-------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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silversoul7
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Re: All The News Thats Fit To Print [Re: zappaisgod]
#2909643 - 07/20/04 06:27 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Is this what we can expect from Kerry appointees, that they can do anything as long as they don't get caught?
It's called politics. Get used to it.
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  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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The_Red_Crayon
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Re: Berger and CLinton [Re: coralrives]
#2909861 - 07/20/04 07:20 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Haha your a typical Party loyalist. Keep reaching for that rainbow.
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