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InvisibleSenescent
Sojourner

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 43
How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets?
    #12330479 - 04/04/10 04:53 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

So, I know that the keys to getting a good pin set are:
In no particular order,

Light
Level substrate
Fully colonized substrate
Fresh Air changes
98%+ Humidity

So I'm curious how to get a great pin set by providing these optimal conditions in my monotubs.
The first 3 I think I'm pretty good on.
The last 2 I think I could do better on. So I'm curious what some folks processes are from the point you know it's time to induce fruiting, and the time that the pins are set.

Do you leave it be (no fanning/misting)until you see pins?
Do you mist only? How do you ensure humidity is as high as possible? If you find your humidity lower than optimal, how do you go about increasing it?

I'm pretty good at maintaining the tub after pins start growing, I'm just curious what I can do to try and produce optimal pinning conditions when not using a casing layer.

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OfflineTheBandit
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Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: Senescent]
    #12330578 - 04/04/10 05:11 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------




[quote]RogerRabbit said:
Ah, that explains it.  Typical know-it-all noob.  We get a few thousand just like you register here every year.  They try a few grows, fail miserably and then after a few months or one bad trip, go back to sniffing glue, never to be seen again.

We have a basic pf tek that's idiot proof enough for noobs to get fucked up with their friends. 

Mycologists on the other hand grow for the love of growing.  They want to experiment with various species, substrates, and fruiting environments. They'll move on to isolate strains, attempt hybridization, and in general treat cultivation as an artform, rather than a chore that must be performed as a means to an end.  They'll work twice as hard for a ten percent gain, just for the love of perfection.  These are the ones who will isolate strains, not the dumb fucks who treat mushrooms as a drug, or even worse, a pathogen, as if mushrooms cause disease.
RR [/quote]

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InvisibleSenescent
Sojourner

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 43
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: TheBandit]
    #12330653 - 04/04/10 05:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Ya I've read that thread multiple times over the past 8 years.

Unfortunately, it refers to cased substrates.

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Invisibleambargh
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Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 3,433
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: Senescent]
    #12331397 - 04/04/10 07:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Are you doing bulk or cakes?


--------------------
"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.." - Douglas Adams

ambargh's easy agar

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Invisibletekramrepus
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Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: ambargh]
    #12331420 - 04/04/10 07:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

For monotubs, it takes some tweaking/adjustment with the polyfill filter holes, but generally once you get it down, running a small fan in the room, and OCCASIONALY misting if need be, are enough for FAE and Humidity.

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Invisibleambargh
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Posts: 3,433
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: tekramrepus]
    #12331453 - 04/04/10 07:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

For monotubs I just take out the polyfill once I see knots and all that FAE is :awethumb:

Just remember to mist the shit out of it.


--------------------
"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.." - Douglas Adams

ambargh's easy agar

Edited by ambargh (04/04/10 07:46 PM)

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InvisibleSenescent
Sojourner

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 43
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: tekramrepus]
    #12331653 - 04/04/10 08:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ambargh said:
For monotubs I just take out the polyfill once I see knots and all that FAE is :awethumb:

Just remember to mist the shit out of it.




Quote:

Senescent said:
So I'm curious what some folks processes are from the point you know it's time to induce fruiting, and the time that the pins are set.




QFE

Quote:

supermarket said:
For monotubs, it takes some tweaking/adjustment with the polyfill filter holes, but generally once you get it down, running a small fan in the room, and OCCASIONALY misting if need be, are enough for FAE and Humidity.




Ya that's sort of what I'm trying to get down better. I'm pretty sure that misting doesn't actually increase humidity though does it?

Again, I'm talking about treatments/methods after full colonization and PRIOR to pin formation.

Previously, I have started fanning/misting as soon as I introduce fruiting conditions(which usually involves a fan blowing in the room).

I'm beginning to think that I'm losing too much moisture out of the tub when doing this though.
Perhaps I should not open the tub at all. Remove tape and polyfil the holes. Then leave it be until after pins are formed?

Also, I have at my disposal, an ultrasonic and a cool mist humidifier, as well as one of these

I was thinking about maybe using the tropic air thing once per day for about 10 mins and just stick it through the polyfil and let it humidify the tub once a day.

comments? feedback?

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Invisibleambargh
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Posts: 3,433
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: Senescent]
    #12332429 - 04/04/10 10:04 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Senescent said:


... I'm pretty sure that misting doesn't actually increase humidity though does it?



I'm beginning to think that I'm losing too much moisture out of the tub when doing this though.
Perhaps I should not open the tub at all. Remove tape and polyfil the holes. Then leave it be until after pins are formed?


I was thinking about maybe using the tropic air thing once per day for about 10 mins and just stick it through the polyfil and let it humidify the tub once a day.






  Water evaporating off the substrate is a major pinning trigger. So I usually fan really good  before I mist. It replaces all the moisture you just fanned off.... So your substrate doesn't dry out as fast.  Does that any make sense?

And those Tropic Aire thingies you can use 24/7. They work best with smaller FC's IMO.


--------------------
"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.." - Douglas Adams

ambargh's easy agar

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OfflinePoseidon
My FAE is bigger than your FAE


Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 229
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: ambargh]
    #12332633 - 04/04/10 10:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Fanning and misting monotubs daily definitely helps but it sort of defeats the primary purpose of monotubs--simplicity and minimal maintenance.  For me monotubs are about quantity and not quality.  I minimize overlay and humidity issues by re-casing after every flush with (straight hydrated) coir.  If you want to do uncased monotubs you are looking at more work than is necessary; of course, you will have to mist the shit out of it if you want to keep flushing uncased.  If you don't mist you won't get much after the first flush because of nasty overlay.  I don't recommend fanning personally, you should have plenty enough FAE and evaporation just from your air holes.


--------------------
HELLO, NUBCAKES.  ARE YOU HAVING CONTAMINATION ISSUES?  WELL, YOU MUST NOT BE AWARE OF THE MAGICAL FORCE OF BACTERIAL ENDOSPORES.  E-N-D-O-S-P-O-R-E-S.  SPELL IT OUT, YOU GOD DAMN NUBLETS, BECAUSE IT WHAT CAUSES EVERY CONTAMINATION KNOWN TO MAN.  ENDOSPORES HAPPEN WHEN YOU DO NOT PRESSURE COOK AT 15 PSI FOR AT LEAST 6 HOURS.  LIKE A FUCKING VIETCONG IN HIS CAVE, THESE RELENTLESS COCKSUCKSERS CAN GET FUCKING FRIED AND STILL POP OUT OF YOUR GRAIN AND FUCK ALL YOUR SHIT RIGHT UP!!  GETTING CONTAMINATIONS?  WELL OBVIOUSLY, YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ENDOSPORES!!

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InvisibleSenescent
Sojourner

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 43
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: Poseidon]
    #12337561 - 04/05/10 06:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Coir isn't a casing, it's a substrate.

I don't see how doing uncased is more work. I've done both methods multiple times, and casing is definitely more of a pain in the ass to maintain.

Quote:

If you don't mist you won't get much after the first flush because of nasty overlay.




So you are telling me that moisture content on the surface prevents overlay of an uncased substrate? I was under the impression all these years that overlay could only occur on cased substrates.

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OfflineTheBandit
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Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 1,655
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Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: Senescent]
    #12337651 - 04/05/10 06:55 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Senescent said:
Coir isn't a casing, it's a substrate.

I don't see how doing uncased is more work. I've done both methods multiple times, and casing is definitely more of a pain in the ass to maintain.

Quote:

If you don't mist you won't get much after the first flush because of nasty overlay.




So you are telling me that moisture content on the surface prevents overlay of an uncased substrate? I was under the impression all these years that overlay could only occur on cased substrates.





everything in this paragraph you stated is correct.

what year did you start reading?


--------------------




[quote]RogerRabbit said:
Ah, that explains it.  Typical know-it-all noob.  We get a few thousand just like you register here every year.  They try a few grows, fail miserably and then after a few months or one bad trip, go back to sniffing glue, never to be seen again.

We have a basic pf tek that's idiot proof enough for noobs to get fucked up with their friends. 

Mycologists on the other hand grow for the love of growing.  They want to experiment with various species, substrates, and fruiting environments. They'll move on to isolate strains, attempt hybridization, and in general treat cultivation as an artform, rather than a chore that must be performed as a means to an end.  They'll work twice as hard for a ten percent gain, just for the love of perfection.  These are the ones who will isolate strains, not the dumb fucks who treat mushrooms as a drug, or even worse, a pathogen, as if mushrooms cause disease.
RR [/quote]

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OfflinePoseidon
My FAE is bigger than your FAE


Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 229
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: Senescent]
    #12339948 - 04/06/10 01:00 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Senescent said:
Coir isn't a casing, it's a substrate.




Oh god, here we go again...  It's a substrate and you can case with it.  Just because it has nutritional value doesn't mean you can't case with it.  It works just the same as any other casing layer.  Before people discovered coir was (somewhat) nutritional, it was prized as a casing material.  And now that it is considered nutritional, you can't case with it?  Bullshit.  It will work just the same.

Quote:

I don't see how doing uncased is more work. I've done both methods multiple times, and casing is definitely more of a pain in the ass to maintain.




Cased monotubs require less maintenance because you do not have to mist them (if the casing is fresh).  How is a casing layer a pain to maintain?  Step 1: apply casing layer.  Step 2: wait for mushrooms and harvest them.  Recase and repeat.  Jesus Christ, that was difficult as fuck, wasn't it?

Quote:

So you are telling me that moisture content on the surface prevents overlay of an uncased substrate?




Well I don't know, you tell me...  Overlay is caused by dried up mycelium.  Applying moisture wouldn't stop that, now would it?  What sense would that make?  (For the record, yes, it does, in fact, prevent overlay.)

Quote:

I was under the impression all these years that overlay could only occur on cased substrates.




Quote:



    *
      overlays plural, 3rd person present, 3rd person present listen ;  overlaying present participle listen ;  overlaid past tense, past participle listen

    *
      If something is overlaid with something else, it is covered by it. VERB usu passive
          o
            The floor was overlaid with rugs of oriental design. 'be' V-ed + 'with'
          o
            ...woollen cloth, overlaid with gold and silver embroidery. V-ed




How is an uncased monotub surface covered in dead fucking mycelium any different than a cased monotub surface covered in dead fucking mycelium?  =/


--------------------
HELLO, NUBCAKES.  ARE YOU HAVING CONTAMINATION ISSUES?  WELL, YOU MUST NOT BE AWARE OF THE MAGICAL FORCE OF BACTERIAL ENDOSPORES.  E-N-D-O-S-P-O-R-E-S.  SPELL IT OUT, YOU GOD DAMN NUBLETS, BECAUSE IT WHAT CAUSES EVERY CONTAMINATION KNOWN TO MAN.  ENDOSPORES HAPPEN WHEN YOU DO NOT PRESSURE COOK AT 15 PSI FOR AT LEAST 6 HOURS.  LIKE A FUCKING VIETCONG IN HIS CAVE, THESE RELENTLESS COCKSUCKSERS CAN GET FUCKING FRIED AND STILL POP OUT OF YOUR GRAIN AND FUCK ALL YOUR SHIT RIGHT UP!!  GETTING CONTAMINATIONS?  WELL OBVIOUSLY, YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ENDOSPORES!!

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: Poseidon]
    #12341612 - 04/06/10 11:31 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Just for " The Record"  Overlay is a condition affecting colonized substrates that have a casing layer applied.  The "Overlay" occurs when the mycelium remains in VEGETATIVE Growth and continues to colonize the casing layer as if it was part of the entire substrate.  With that being said, an UNCASED monotub will never experience the condition commonly known as "overlay"

HOWEVER!

"Matting" is a condition that affects ANY substrate or casing that has been "overlayed".  Matting can be caused my lack of moisture or too much moisture.  In either case, what has happened is that you have formed a dense, dead layer of cells on the surface.

In conclusion, Matting is the term that gets confused with overlay.

:foshizzle:


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.

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OfflineTheBandit
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Registered: 03/03/08
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Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #12341643 - 04/06/10 11:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

:spank:


--------------------




[quote]RogerRabbit said:
Ah, that explains it.  Typical know-it-all noob.  We get a few thousand just like you register here every year.  They try a few grows, fail miserably and then after a few months or one bad trip, go back to sniffing glue, never to be seen again.

We have a basic pf tek that's idiot proof enough for noobs to get fucked up with their friends. 

Mycologists on the other hand grow for the love of growing.  They want to experiment with various species, substrates, and fruiting environments. They'll move on to isolate strains, attempt hybridization, and in general treat cultivation as an artform, rather than a chore that must be performed as a means to an end.  They'll work twice as hard for a ten percent gain, just for the love of perfection.  These are the ones who will isolate strains, not the dumb fucks who treat mushrooms as a drug, or even worse, a pathogen, as if mushrooms cause disease.
RR [/quote]

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InvisibleSenescent
Sojourner

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 43
Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: TheBandit]
    #12343687 - 04/06/10 05:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for that Shroomy1.

That's the point I was trying to make with dude but anyhow.

Maybe I can get this thread back on track to my original inquiry.

I'm curious what methods and procedures people use BETWEEN THE POINT OF FULL COLONIZATION AND PIN FORMATION.

Do most people just leave the tub alone until pins form?
Seems to me like fanning, would cause too much loss of humidity during it's most crucial time when it ideally should remain around 98-99%.

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OfflineThirdeye08
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Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: Poseidon]
    #29058523 - 12/16/24 09:57 AM (30 days, 17 hours ago)

Actually if it's a great monotub you don't need a casing or to mist. It will do all the work itself. even with something like PE you don't need a casing on a monotub.

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OfflineQuantumZ00
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Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: Thirdeye08] * 1
    #29058535 - 12/16/24 10:06 AM (30 days, 17 hours ago)

Holy ancient bump batman. Senescent hasn't posted since 2017, and the last post in this topic was 2010...14 years ago... :p


--------------------
Endlessly endorsing empathy empirically energizing existence

~Always practice radical kindness~
R.I.P. Betty Boop, the Greatest Mother who ever lived. October 1961-November 2024.

Edited by QuantumZ00 (12/16/24 10:06 AM)

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Onlinevicepope
The devils best grower
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Re: How to Optimize Uncased Pinsets? [Re: QuantumZ00]
    #29060157 - 12/18/24 01:11 AM (29 days, 2 hours ago)

But neco post makes be go down a rabbit hole. Also help mods close threads. Also thirdeye no casing is needed. Mist only if your super dry.


--------------------
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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