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OfflineRainbowEye
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PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN
    #2905844 - 07/19/04 05:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hello,

I'm looking for somebody, who can help me with a theory.
The theory is pretty simple. I say, that adding melatonin
to the substrate will make the mushrooms produce a psilocybin-derivate.
Does anyone know, if this is going to work or might someone even have tried it out already?
Anyone who can help me with it, please respond to this thread.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: RainbowEye]
    #2905915 - 07/19/04 06:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe the mycelium will trip off of the melatonin.


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Offline4hodmt
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: RainbowEye]
    #2906386 - 07/19/04 08:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

^^^

well, melatonin is 5-MeO-N-AcetoxyTryptamine. i think that it would turn that into 5-meo-N-MT, then into perhaps 5-meo-dmt (which wouldnt affect your trip.), or into 5-ho-dmt, or 5-ho-n-mt. from there it could de-hydroxylize the the 5-position into dmt. from there probably 4-hydroxylization of the 4-position into psicolin. then into psilocybin. it probably would not be high in psilocybin, as the fungi only has so much phosphorus available. however i have heard of adding phosphoric acid to the substrate to increase psilocybin amounts. either way, i wouldnt add the phosphoric acid, but i would be careful drying them. also u must be careful. you could do an alkaloid extracti0on on the cake to see how much of the melatonin (or alkaloids) got into the mushrooms. A GC/MS analization of this content would be ideal, of both the mushrooms and substrate, but i doubt anybody here ccould try that.

Just my 2 cents...


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Invisiblemycopsycho
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: 4hodmt]
    #2906459 - 07/19/04 09:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah... that's some pretty expensive equipment


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Offline4hodmt
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: mycopsycho]
    #2917528 - 07/22/04 10:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

^^^^^^^

not really. you dont need to use the phosphoric acid if u dry cool. all u need is the melatonin and the means to pull an acid/base extraction to get it pure. the tricky part is getting it in after u PC the jars, without screwing up the substrate. but then again, maybe the melatonin isnt too heat sensitive...


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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: RainbowEye]
    #2917659 - 07/22/04 10:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

well, melatonin is 5-MeO-N-AcetoxyTryptamine. i think that it would turn that into 5-meo-N-MT, then into perhaps 5-meo-dmt (which wouldnt affect your trip.), or into 5-ho-dmt, or 5-ho-n-mt. from there it could de-hydroxylize the the 5-position into dmt. from there probably 4-hydroxylization of the 4-position into psicolin.




There are a lot of questionable conversions in that hypothesis. I am only familiar with the hydroxylase enzyme that converts DMT into psilocin (admittedly, i am not extremely well-read on psilocybe metabolism). I was wondering, specifically, what information you have on the conversion of 5-meo-dmt into psilocin because i havent found that in my literature searches and you say it "de-hydroxylizes" into DMT?


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: RainbowEye]
    #2921656 - 07/23/04 08:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Did someone actually isolate a HOase enzyme? I thought it was just postulated.... If so, who actually spent the time and money????

Case and point. 4hodmt, you're making up enzymes. No one knows what would happen to melatonin -- maybe a new molecule, maybe nothing....

--
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Edited by micro (07/27/04 07:03 PM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: micro]
    #2921729 - 07/23/04 08:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh, and who said adding phosphoric acid increases psilocybin production? I completely don't believe this. I know someone (I think Gartz) hypothesized that the decrease in psilocybin probably resulted in a decrease in available phosphate, but I completely don't believe this. A downregulation mechanism is much more likely given the amount the ratio between the two (psilocybin:psilocin) decreased. Besides, people would use phosphate salts as a phosphate source, not H3PO4.

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Offline4hodmt
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: micro]
    #2922029 - 07/23/04 10:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i believe i read the information about the phosphoric acid on the lycaeum. im not saying anything here as fact, only speculation...

"and yeah, there are such things as mono amine oxidase enzymes. Mono amine oxidases (MAO) are mitochondrial outer membrane flavoenzyme."

i am not making up enzymes\

all of the possible outcomes i listed for the shrooms to make were purely speculation. the reason i speculated that it may make 5-meo-dmt is becasue that would be very simple for the fungus to do; simply break the acetoxy group into a methyl group, and then add a N methyl. it would add the N methyl anyway at some point. i was just postulating that the shrooms may not take away the 5-meo- off of the DMT.

BlueApocalypse, the conversion of 5-meo-dmt to psicolin is probably the least likely thing to happen, but bufotenin, (5-ho-dmt) is known to be present in moderate amounts in at least some species of cubensis. i think it is possible for the mushrooms to hav an enzymatic route of converting bufotenin into dmt and then psicolin. but agin, that is probably the least likely of outcomes, and i dont really have a source for any of this information, its just really speculation.

i wouldnt say that any of those IDEAS are too far-fetched


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all posts made by 4hodmt are entirely ficticious. the user 4hodmt has noa ffiliation with any company, or organization; any endorsements made by 4hodmt are to be considered a joke. any similarity between a person (or story) 4hodmt is talking about is entirely happenstance. 4hodmt is not to be taken seriously under any circumstance. furthermore, he does not know what he is talking about. Please ignore anything 4hodmt has to say.


_______

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Actually I'm not from the future, but I did lived there for a while."

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Invisiblemicro
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: 4hodmt]
    #2923037 - 07/24/04 08:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

"and yeah, there are such things as mono amine oxidase enzymes. Mono amine oxidases (MAO) are mitochondrial outer membrane flavoenzyme."

i am not making up enzymes\




WTF? Did you just type "enzyme" into google or something? Yes -- there are a lot of enzymes, actually lots and lots of them found in all living things. Unfortunately a lot (like monoamine oxidase) have nothing to do with what we're talking about. Monoamine oxidase turns amines into aldehydes, so unfortunately you just turned the drug into a non-active form (which would be oxidized very quickly by aldehyde dehydrogenase in the body (however the fungi would almost certainly break it down way before the mushroom even got eaten.) You also assume fungi have this enzyme, which they probably don't....

So, again, you're making up enzymes and speculating what they do. The cells don't decide "what is easy" to do -- they have enzymes that do certain things and only act on certain molecules. Biology 101.

--
Micro


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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: micro]
    #2929706 - 07/26/04 08:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Did someone actually isolate a HOase enzyme? I thought it was just postulated.... If so, who actually spent the time and money????

Case and point you're making up enzymes. No one knows what would happen to melatonin -- maybe a new molecule, maybe nothing....




Yes, it has been postulated and therefore i am not "making it up". I never specified a particular enzyme but i think that its a pretty darn good assumption that it is a metabolic process catalyzed by an enzyme. Last time i checked, "dehydroxylase" could be used generically to talk about an enzyme that can either add or remove OH groups. The enzyme in question may not be a dehydroxylase, but it functions as one in this instance. Case and point, I am right, you are wrong. :p


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Offline4hodmt
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: Blue_Apocalypse]
    #2929753 - 07/26/04 08:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

ditto.


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_______

"Trust me, I'm from the future.


Actually I'm not from the future, but I did lived there for a while."

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Invisiblemicro
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Re: PSILOCYBIN DERIVAT THROUGH MELATONIN [Re: Blue_Apocalypse]
    #2933547 - 07/27/04 07:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, it has been postulated and therefore i am not "making it up". I never specified a particular enzyme but i think that its a pretty darn good assumption that it is a metabolic process catalyzed by an enzyme. Last time i checked, "dehydroxylase" could be used generically to talk about an enzyme that can either add or remove OH groups. The enzyme in question may not be a dehydroxylase, but it functions as one in this instance. Case and point, I am right, you are wrong. :p




I apologize -- I was not addressing you, I was addressing 4hodmt about making up enzymes. I understand where you're coming from.

I see how that was confuzing -- I edited my post.

--
Micro


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Any research paper or book for free
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