Home | Community | Message Board


Kratom Eye
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Seeds Store Buy CBD, Cannabis Seeds, Compare CBD   Amazon ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Coir, Hydroponics Supplies, Peat, Perlite, pH Test Strips, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflineSecretSquirrel
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 4
Last seen: 13 years, 6 days
zeolite vs vermiculite / perlite
    #2905721 - 07/19/04 04:58 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

forgive me posting in the advanced section but i do not believe an average cultivator could have an answer to this:

noone has ever heard of vermiculite and perlite in my country, perhaps i can use ceolite!? have you any knowledge to this mineral? will mushrooms like it or? and should i use it instead of vermiculite for substrate or in stead of perlite?
i am kind of broke at the moment to buy vermiculite in the internet, so i hope you will not mind taking time to reply.

here is detailed info on the mineral:

ZEOLITE: any of various hydrous silicates that are analogous in composition to the feldspars, occur as secondary minerals in cavities of lavas, and can act as ion-exchangers; also : any of various natural or synthesized silicates of similar structure used especially in water softening and as adsorbents and catalysts

Zeolite is an inorganic porous material having a highly regular structure of pores and chambers that allows some molecules to pass through, and causes others to be either excluded, or broken down. It is in many ways, the inorganic equivalent of organic enzymes, many of which also have specific sized chambers that trap chemicals within our bodies, holding them where they either break down, or react with specific chemicals.

In nature, zeolites are often formed where volcanic rock of specific chemical composition is immersed in water so as to leach away some of the components. Composition and pore size, of course, depend upon what kind of rock minerals are involved.

Products of manufacturing of rocks containing ceolite may be used for the deep drying of gases, oil products refining from sulphohydrates, etc. as additives for producing rubber and plastics, detergents, fertilizers and mineral cattle feed. It is also possible to employ ceolite for the extraction of nuclear materials out of nuclear reactors.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,123
Loc: my room
Last seen: 25 days, 18 hours
Re: zeolite vs vermiculite / perlite [Re: SecretSquirrel]
    #2906023 - 07/19/04 06:36 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Zeolite is usually used as desiccant. As the cavities in it are rather small, I don't think it would make a good substitute for vermiculite.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMAGnum
veteran

Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: zeolite vs vermiculite / perlite [Re: SecretSquirrel]
    #2906043 - 07/19/04 06:41 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

You've never heard of pearlite or vermiculite but I've never heard of Zeolite. You can always order vermiculite online and wait for it over a week.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleStarter
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
Re: zeolite vs vermiculite / perlite [Re: SecretSquirrel]
    #2906754 - 07/19/04 11:19 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

I posted this in a thread yesterday.

Quote:


You can always try growool if you can't get vermiculite. It holds 1/3 more water than vermiculite. Ratio, 1 part BRF, 2 growool, 1 & 1/3 part water.



You can even replace the contaminant barrier with growool too. They'll colonise like regular vermiculite cakes.



Then crumble and case in coir for a 100% vermiculite free grow. Don't grow as cakes, glass fibers would not be safe to ingest.




If you're looking at an alternative to vermiculite it has to be 1.) inert 2.) hold a lot of water 3.) allow mycelium to move through it. If it can't do that it won't work.


--------------------
Convert Metric and Imperial.


Edited by Starter (07/19/04 11:20 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSecretSquirrel
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 4
Last seen: 13 years, 6 days
Re: zeolite vs vermiculite / perlite [Re: Starter]
    #2906954 - 07/20/04 12:55 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

to Starter: thank you, i shall try to find this grow wool!! but what about zeolite? can i use it instead of perlite then??

for those who have not heard of zeolite - it is mined in sybiria and belorus, this part of the world knows nothing about wermiculite ass it is not found here. and i explained why i have not ordered it online..


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSecretSquirrel
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 4
Last seen: 13 years, 6 days
Re: zeolite vs vermiculite / perlite [Re: SecretSquirrel]
    #2907029 - 07/20/04 01:21 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

to starter: you wrote "Don't grow as cakes, glass fibers would not be safe to ingest" could you please clarify this point - does this mean that mushrooms would contain wool fibres when grown on cakes?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleStarter
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
Re: zeolite vs vermiculite / perlite [Re: SecretSquirrel]
    #2907270 - 07/20/04 02:44 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

to Starter: thank you, i shall try to find this grow wool!!




Growool is sold at hydroponic shops and garden centers. If you can find growool, you're likely to find vermiculite.

However, growool (granulated rockwool) is also found as glass fiber insulation. As long as it is not treated with fire retardants like monoammonium phosphate and is pH neutral (thus horticultural grade), then it will not be toxic to the mushrooms. Glass insulation fiber is cheap. I'm yet to test it, but I can't see why tearing up a slab of it wouldn't work, as long as it's not phytotoxic and is pH neutral. Glass fiber is glass fiber.




Quote:

but what about zeolite? can i use it instead of perlite then??




For a perlite alternative, you can use expanded clay. The Americans call that geolite. You don't use that in making cakes, you use it as a 2" layer in the base of the terrarium as a means to wick up moisture and therefore increase relative humidity for the cakes.



But if you case the cakes you won't need to do that. Cases make their own humidity in a terrarium.


Quote:

for those who have not heard of zeolite - it is mined in sybiria and belorus, this part of the world knows nothing about wermiculite ass it is not found here. and i explained why i have not ordered it online..




I've used zeolite for the veggie garden, it's mined in South Australia and it increases cation exchange. It would be cheaper to use broken terracotta in a terrarium to wick up moisture and increase the relative humidity to cakes, because I recall zeolite being rather expensive regardless of grade milled. Sold at garden centers and hydroponic shops.

Lava rocks are another alternative as well, but they're very heavy. Ideal hydro media for large plants as it acts as "ballast" preventing large plants from tearing loose of their tubs. And yes, you can get lava rock at the hydroponic shop, but cheaper to buy at the landscape yard. Wash it well before you use it and soak over night in a 5% bleach solution.

Bottom line, the heavier a material the more expensive it is because of freight costs so the cheapest (outside of a landscape yard) is perlite.


Quote:

to starter: you wrote "Don't grow as cakes, glass fibers would not be safe to ingest" could you please clarify this point - does this mean that mushrooms would contain wool fibres when grown on cakes?




Yes.

You don't grow as cakes because there will be glass fibers attached to the base of the mushrooms, which you'll find near impossible to remove, unless you cut the mushrooms proud which is wasteful because you'll lose on what you could eat. Needless to say, don't case in growool either!

The solution is to crumble and case the cakes in coir. Coir used, because you couldn't get vermiculite. Then you'll have safe mushrooms without waste and all managed without vermiculite. Coir can come in a loose pre-moistened bag format which is expensive, or better as compressed dry bricks. Dirt cheap.



All up, if you can't find a pH neutral, chemical free glass fiber, or vermiculite, then cakes are out of the game play as far I can see.

I've seen some coir cakes in the shroomery, where coir was substituted for vermiculite and I'm NOT convinced its a good alternative. Coir is not 100% inert and is therefore susceptiable to contamination. It only has, in my opinion, use as a casing layer. Basically, if the substitute cake making material is not on par to the benchmark of vermiculite or better, its crap. So, if you're in that position then start out casing grains which beats cakes by a long fucking shot. You will only need a bag of birdseed or rye and some coir peat to case the bastards. That will save you a lot of running around.

Remember, if you never make a cake in your life and grow cased grains and then onto bulk (all of which can easily be vermiculite, growool, perlite, geolite, lava rock free), hey ya can't complain. :wink:


--------------------
Convert Metric and Imperial.


Edited by Starter (07/20/04 02:46 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSecretSquirrel
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 4
Last seen: 13 years, 6 days
Re: zeolite vs vermiculite / perlite [Re: Starter]
    #2907362 - 07/20/04 03:18 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

hey, starter! i thank you 100000 times for a lot of helpful info!!

i have yet not grown any shrooms, but am about to so began seeking all needed things, and you know what - in eastern europe gardening shops are some 20 years back comparatively to what western ones offer, btw, nobody has heard a single thing about grow wool either, can you believe this!? i hjave even tried the zoo and botanical garden! nevertheless i have got the idea and will post my shroom pictures as they will appear.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleStarter
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
Re: zeolite vs vermiculite / perlite [Re: SecretSquirrel]
    #2907390 - 07/20/04 03:31 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

I suggest you get a pressure cooker and some jars and grow by casing grains. Its actually very easy and highly rewarding. As said, you only need a bag of grain (be it millet, corn or rye) and some coir peat.

There's a number of FAQ's in the shroomery on how to do that on whatever grain you want to grow with.

In addition, if you can't get coir peat and you can only get regular peat (excavated from bog lands) then use lime to raise the pH. That's detailed in the FAQ's too. There's life without cakes, rest assured.


--------------------
Convert Metric and Imperial.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Shop: Original Seeds Store Buy CBD, Cannabis Seeds, Compare CBD   Amazon ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Coir, Hydroponics Supplies, Peat, Perlite, pH Test Strips, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Difference Between Vermiculite & Perlite w/pics
( 1 2 all )
RogerRabbitM 14,417 28 04/17/09 08:34 AM
by Duggstar
* Perlite vs. Vermiculite fredthetree 775 3 10/05/02 02:24 PM
by StS
* vermiculite/perlite or expanded clay? LilMerlin 1,128 1 03/19/02 11:20 AM
by Firestarter
* Can I use Zeolite instead of Perlite? percy_west 934 3 12/20/06 07:43 AM
by percy_west
* Perlite vs. Vermiculite Azazel990 1,138 6 02/22/03 08:43 PM
by deanofmean
* perlite vs vermiculite nenar 859 3 05/23/05 10:11 PM
by deanofmean
* perlite vs. vermiculite mushystuf 778 8 09/22/02 03:32 PM
by tripndicular
* Perlite vs. Vermiculite at bottom of casing death_by_desire 4,695 6 07/12/04 03:57 PM
by doug_E_fresh

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Magash, Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, total, FooMan, 13shrooms, stonesun, cronicr, PussyFart, Tmethyl, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
6,731 topic views. 19 members, 69 guests and 41 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Avalon Magic Plants
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 16 queries.