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Anonymous
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: Trique]
#2906134 - 07/19/04 05:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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What the hell? It has everything to do with them. They vote the god damn things into place. Its up to the government to make laws that govern companies and government welfare to be affordable dont you think?
not at all. it is not the government's job to force some people to provide health coverage for those who cannot afford it.
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Anonymous
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: Trique]
#2906145 - 07/19/04 05:22 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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How do you think all those people make their money? Cheney makes his investing in weapons to kill people, about 90% of those people being harmless and innocent. i can feel the warmth still coming off that one. fresh out of your ass i presume? source please? whoever wrote this list seems upset that "the wealthy", including certain members of bush's cabinet, are benefitting from a tax break. the reality is that all that's happening is that they are being allowed to keep more of their own money. i don't see a problem with that.
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Anonymous
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: Trique]
#2906185 - 07/19/04 05:32 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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There are more than two illegitimate dictatorships in the world. And guess what? The Bush family is BEST friends with the worst of them all. SAUDI ARABIA. The by far have the worst terrorists ex.(9/11, they were saudi militants). saudi arabia is beside the point. the regimes in control of afghanistan and iraq were totalitarian. they ruled not by public mandate, but by force. they were not legitimate governments and deserved no recognition as sovereign states. removing these internal tyrants from power was no more reprehensible than ejecting a foreign invader. the fact that the united states chooses to befriend certain illegitimate governments around the world doesn't preclude it from being hostile to others. or should we be friendly with all of the world's dictatorships?
Edited by mushmaster (07/19/04 05:56 PM)
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,267
Loc: High pride!
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: ]
#2906329 - 07/19/04 06:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
2: Number of nations that Bush has attacked and taken over since coming into the White House
1. both of which were ruled by illegitimate dictatorships, one of which actively and intensively supported and harbored an extensive terrorist network, and neither of which have in reality been "taken over" by the united states.
Bullshit. We took over Iraq. How much do you think will go on there that we don't aprove of?
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9.2: Average number of American soldiers wounded in Iraq each day since the invasion in March last year
1.6: Average number of American soldiers killed in Iraq per day since hostilities began
it's war.
It is war. It's a war that shouldn't have happened because of Bush.
Quote:
10,000: Approximate number of Iraqi civilians killed since the beginning of the conflict
compare that to hussein's average over the same length of time.
So you think Hussein killed 10,000 people each year? No friggin' way.
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45%: Percentage of Americans who believed in early March 2003 that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 11 September attacks on the US
why is this a reflection on the current administration?
Because as it's been discussed many times here, the Bush administration used EXTREMLY deceptive language which caused people to make a direct connection.
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$42,000: Average savings members of Bush's cabinet are expected to enjoy this year as a result in the cuts in capital gains and dividends taxes
great. they are allowed keep more of their own money, as they should be.
$116,000: Amount Vice-President Cheney is expected to save each year in taxes
see above.
He's saying that this could be considered a conflict of interest.
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9: Number of members of Bush's defense policy board who also sit on the corporate board of, or advise, at least one defense contractor
there are 30 members on the defense policy board. 9 of them also "sit on the corporate board of", or advise a defense contractor? is that supposed to be important?
Conflict of interest.
Quote:
There are more than two illegitimate dictatorships in the world. And guess what? The Bush family is BEST friends with the worst of them all. SAUDI ARABIA. The by far have the worst terrorists ex.(9/11, they were saudi militants).
saudi arabia is beside the point
Saudi Arabia is beside the point??? No it's not.
Quote:
the fact that the united states chooses to befriend certain illegitimate governments around the world doesn't preclude the it from being hostile to others if it chooses.
or should we be friendly with all of the world's dictatorships?
Consistancy.
If one of your primary reasons for going to war is because Iraq run by a tyrant then you must be against all countries who are run by tyrants or your point is lost.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: Learyfan]
#2906394 - 07/19/04 06:42 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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1. More and more goes on everyday that we don't approve of. See reopening of al-Sadr's cronies newspaper
2.It's war it should've happened and it should have happened 14 years ago except we thought the UN might get some teeth. Silly us, all they wanted to do was line their pockets.
3. Hussein killed way more than 10k a year. I've seen estimates as high as 100k
4.I certainly wasn't deceived, the language was quite explicit and clear, and correct. If only 45% of the people got the wrong impression, maybe it was because they get their news from the Today show and lightweight, sensationalist sources like that. Or maybe they're just stupid.
5.Almost everyone in government is wealthy. So every time there is a tax cut for the people who pay most of the taxes it's suspicious? It couldn't possibly be because these tax cuts have historicly been positive stimuli for the economy.
6. Defense advisors should know something about defense contractors. 9 out of 30 isn't much.
7. One at a time baby, one at a time.
8. Your cartoon is outdated. The 9/11 commission supported the intelligence that Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake and denied that intelligence was manipulated. It is internally contradictory on those issues and wrong on several others.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,267
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 6 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: zappaisgod]
#2906522 - 07/19/04 07:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
7. One at a time baby, one at a time.
You have way too much confidence in our military. Our troops are already stretched too thin because of Iraq and you think we can go conquer other countries now as well? Will you donate your kids for the cause?
Most everything else you said is debatable or based on opinion.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Anonymous
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: Learyfan]
#2906606 - 07/19/04 08:19 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Bullshit. We took over Iraq. How much do you think will go on there that we don't aprove of? time will tell. the united states has neither the resources nor the resolve to enforce a "takeover" of a nation such as iraq. they'll be fully independent and sovereign within a few years. So you think Hussein killed 10,000 people each year? No friggin' way. it's been 16 months since the invasion. that's 7,500 per year. hussein was in power for about 30 years. i've seen 300,000 ss a low estimate for the number of civilians killed by hussein. this figure represents only political opponents, ethnic undesirables, and the like, which he had murdered. it doesn't include the hundreds of thousands more killed during the two wars he initiated or the economic sanctions that resulted. so yeah, i'd say 10,000 a year easily, and certainly 7,500. He's saying that this could be considered a conflict of interest. but did anyone do anything wrong? perhaps they benefitted from the tax breaks. i'm sure they even supported them. what's the point? was there something wrong about the tax breaks? Conflict of interest. the fact that 9 out of 30 people on the "defense policy board" (you ever heard of that before?) at the pentagon, have ties to defense contractors is inconsequencial. newt gingrich is on the board. so is dan quayle. the DPB is an advisory board at the pentagon. they do not make policy decisions. by their charter, the board is to be made up mostly of individuals in the private sector "with distinguished backgrounds in national security affairs" and " no more than four government officials." only 3 of the 30 are actually on the boards of companies that have recieved defense contracts: Gen. (Ret.) Ronald R. Fogleman * He is a member of the board of directors of several defense-related companies including Rolls-Royce North America, North American Airlines, AAR Corporation and the Mitre Corp. More than $900 million in contracts were awarded in 2000 to companies on whose boards he sits. [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03b] * He served in the United States Air Force (1963-1997). [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] * Currently president and COO of the Bar J Cattle Company. [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] * Chairman and CEO of Durango Aerospace, Inc. [White House Website; Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] * Former member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.[Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] * Has served as a military advisor to the Secretary of Defense, the National Security Council and the President. [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] David Jeremiah, Admiral. *He is serving as a director or advisor for at least five corporations doing business with the Defense Department. In 2002, these five businesses were awarded more than $10 billion worth of contracts with the Pentagon. [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03b] *Admiral (US Navy, Ret. in 1994). (MITRE website) [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] *Member of MITRE. [website] * President of Technology Strategies & Alliances Corporation, a strategic advisory and investment banking firm engaged primarily in the aerospace, defense, telecommunications and electronics industries. (MITRE website) [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] *Former Deputy Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] *Member of a National Reconnaissance Advisory Panel. (MITRE website) *Member of the National Defense Panel. (MITRE website) *Member of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Human Resources. (MITRE website) *In 1994, he served as vice chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff to Generals Powell and Shalikashvili. (MITRE website) [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] * B.A., business administration, University of Oregon. (MITRE website) *Masters, financial management, George Washington University. (MITRE website) *He has been a member of the MITRE Board of Trustees since 1999. (MITRE website) * Jewish Institute of National Security Affairs (JINSA) board member. [website]. Adm. (Ret.) William Owens * Board member of five companies (some of which are listed below), which received more than $60 million in defense contracts during 2002. [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03b] * Current co-chief executive officer and vice chairman of Teledesic LLC. [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] * Board member of Symantec, a technology/internet security company that was awarded more than $60 million in defense contracts in 2002. Pentagon contracts during the previous year had amounted to considerably less - only $95,000. * Former president, chief operating officer and vice chair of Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC). [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] * Former vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. [Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] * Architect of the Revolution in Military Affairs (RMA), an advanced systems technology approach to military operations.[Center for Public Integrity, 3/28/03] source Saudi Arabia is beside the point??? No it's not. it is.... If one of your primary reasons for going to war is because Iraq run by a tyrant then you must be against all countries who are run by tyrants or your point is lost. i am not saying it is a primary, or even secondary reason for it. what i'm saying is that in and of itself, there is nothing worse about overthrowing an internal tyrant than a foreign invader. aggressing against a legitimate government is an immoral act in and of itself. attacking a brutal dictatorship is not. the author of the list seems to believe that it is.
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AhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: fft2]
#2906669 - 07/19/04 08:42 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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awsome post 100% pure gade a work
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JPZ
lost in mexico
Registered: 06/28/04
Posts: 193
Loc: Monterrey
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: ]
#2906981 - 07/19/04 11:04 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushmaster said: So you think Hussein killed 10,000 people each year? No friggin' way.
it's been 16 months since the invasion. that's 7,500 per year. hussein was in power for about 30 years. i've seen 300,000 ss a low estimate for the number of civilians killed by hussein. this figure represents only political opponents, ethnic undesirables, and the like, which he had murdered. it doesn't include the hundreds of thousands more killed during the two wars he initiated or the economic sanctions that resulted. so yeah, i'd say 10,000 a year easily, and certainly 7,500.
Ok. The US estimate that Saddam killed 300000 over 34 years. This works out at 8823.5 a year. The US is cruising at 7500 a year. The difference is 1323.5. In a country they are supposedly liberating. They are only managing to kill 1323 people less a year than a complete nutter. Is this acceptable to you?
source for US stats
-------------------- I do declare, I can float in the air. "If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up."
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Anonymous
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: JPZ]
#2907003 - 07/19/04 11:14 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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even considering the duration of time, what was routine for him was worse than we inflicted through the war to eliminate him. my point is that civilian casualties must be put into perspective.
look... i didn't support the war. i think it was a bad idea even now, though it's gone far better than i thought it would.
there are very good reasons for opposing to the war. accusations about oil, defying the UN, attacking a "sovereign" nation, or killing civilians are not good ones. unfortunately, they are the ones most often cited.
how about simply stating that it was a huge, expensive misallocation of military resources and will do more harm than good on the terrorism front? it was a mistake, but it was a mistake detrimental to americans, and not the iraqis nor anyone else.
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JPZ
lost in mexico
Registered: 06/28/04
Posts: 193
Loc: Monterrey
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: ]
#2907026 - 07/19/04 11:20 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
how about simply stating that it was a huge, expensive misallocation of military resources and will do more harm than good on the terrorism front? it was a mistake, but it was a mistake detrimental to americans, and not the iraqis nor anyone else
I agree. In what way was it detrimental to the US, in your opinion?
I think;
wasted lives. waste of money loss of respect for US in the world (i know everyone's gonna say who cares?)
-------------------- I do declare, I can float in the air. "If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up."
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: JPZ]
#2907212 - 07/20/04 12:24 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Add to that: it will breed many more terrorists, and all of them will want American blood on their hands as they die.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Anonymous
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Re: George W Bush , how does his first term add up? [Re: JPZ]
#2909206 - 07/20/04 03:47 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I agree. In what way was it detrimental to the US, in your opinion? 1. US soldiers have been, and are continuing to be, killed and maimed. (i was perhaps a little too anxious to rip apart each and every line from that list as i possibly could. writing off american casualties and saying, "oh well, it's war", as i did, was ungrounded. those soldiers died for a cause of the sort that US soldiers should not be expected to participate. 2. it has, at least for the time being, turned iraq into a much worse terrorist haven than it was under hussein. it has also given terrorists groups some great new propaganda material. who knows if and when we'll be able to get the situation under control. it has enlarged the terrorist threat more than decreased it. 3. it has already cost the american taxpayer billions of dollars and continues to be very costly.
Edited by mushmaster (07/20/04 04:01 PM)
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