
OOISI
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open your mind
#2904539  07/19/04 06:16 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Are we really such an advanced race? if we are than how come mathematics (the main basis of our 'knowledge') has flaws??
If we are so advanced how come we cant comprehend one third of one hundred?
and if you say 33.3 reoccuring is a third of it ... your wrong thats a third of 99.9 reoccuring
this is some basic mathematics and we cannot comprehend it? and most of our knowledge is based on mathematics e.g. physics, chemistry ... there not based upon it but maths contributes a major part of what these subjects are composed of...
if most of mankind (industriously civilized) main sciences are based on this main science (maths; science of numbers) and this main basis for our advancement has such a simple flaw, than what makes us so sure most of our other 'knowledge' is so correct? what if all of our sciences have flaws like this ... that would make them obsolete wouldnt it? now wouldnt that be a shame? lol i exaggerate but consider this simple flaw in our "advanced" race (and no most of sciences are not obsolete i was j/k)
i know this is pretty damn OT and will get moved, but if you truly think we are so intelligent ... answer that problem.

repemon
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2904563  07/19/04 06:52 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


We are not logical machines, like someone on this forum said. Are feelings accurate?

daba
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2904586  07/19/04 07:15 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Quote:
OOISI said:
Are we really such an advanced race?
if we are than how come mathematics (the main basis of our 'knowledge') has flaws??
If we are so advanced how come we cant comprehend one third of one hundred?
and if you say 33.3 reoccuring is a third of it ... your wrong thats a third of 99.9 reoccuring
A basic proof shall show you the answer. An elementary understanding of inifinite limits should be adequate for the answer to your grand flaw in mankind's foundation of understading.
If you cannot comprehend the answer, then do not speak on behalf of mankind. Mathematicians have developed many a method to cope with the enigma you stated. The subsequent comments regarding your dilemma simply aid in the exhibition of your ignorance.
Look at the title of your thread. It is called "open your mind." So please, follow your own instruction. You speak as if you are the only one on this rock. Because you are lacking in some department or the other, everyone must be lacking  this is how you come across to me, which I find insulting. There are plenty of people who will understand me, and therefore understand the solution to what you deem as "man's incapability."
Proof: .9 (repeating) = 1.
.9 (repeating) = .999 ... 9 ...
= lim (n>inf) .999 ... 9 (n number of times)
= lim (n>inf) (1  .000 ... 01 [n1 number of times])
= lim (n>inf) (1  1/10^n) = 1. ;; since (1/10^n) is a convergent geometric series
Does that make sense to you?
Edit: Good. If it does, then logic will tell you why we have advanced in such a logarithmic pattern as of the last generation. You see, our mathematics is NOT flawed, and that is why we can advance at such an alarming rate. If such fundamental teachings were incorrect, then why does the airplane fly? Why does the rocket have the ability to shoot into outer space? Why can I type on this keyboard and look into this monitor?
Please think before you challenge.
Edited by daba (07/19/04 07:33 AM)

OOISI
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Re: open your mind [Re: daba]
#2904625  07/19/04 08:20 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


humans with our technology bring a lot of flaws with our discoveries i.e. the pollution side of transportation
and if we are not logical machines why do we base our sciences on logics doesnt that just contradict itself?
how can 99.9 re occurring = 100.0... to me that statement contradicts itself
if something is infinite (reoccuring) IT NEVER ENDS meaning it will never distribute that 0.0(+infinite 0's)1 please elaborate how
what you said is basically .9 reoccuring = 1.0 but you really didnt explain how!! the only way i can see is if you round it off, but thats cheating, isnt it!
so if something reoccurs infinitely it eventually rounds off? thats basically what your saying , your just saying it with higher vocab
maths claims to have comprehended it not me, so i just stated it
god created numbers, man created maths to understand numbers ... man cant fully comprehend the infinite .
yes planes can fly, rockets shoot and comps work cause of maths, but the margin of error i pointed out, is the cause of them crashing every once a while
........
i have a science for you to my friend
the law of the cosmos says everything has two sides which are the complete opposite (i.e. contradicting itself to exist) thus creating a third side (the third side is the meeting point of the opposites, but opposites never meet)
you understand? good , thats what this post has proven
so you think you can comprehend infinity? and simply at that!!! ...LOL you are the Almighty!!
ok maybe i wasnt open minded on peoples replies , but i knew theyd be contradicting my statement (how ironic)
Edited by OOISI (07/19/04 09:32 AM)

deafpanda
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2904715  07/19/04 09:10 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


0.9 recurring does not equal one. As the number of digits tend toward infinity, the value tends toward one.
A third of one hundred is best expressed as 100/3. 33.3 recurring is a decimal representation of 100/3. As the number of 3s you write increases, the value tends toward 100/3. This is the best way to think about it, I know it is a bit counterintuitive.
(99.9 recurring)/3 does not equal 33.3 recurring. I can't remember what it does equal Maybe 33.33333332 recurring?

OOISI
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Re: open your mind [Re: deafpanda]
#2904747  07/19/04 09:24 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


[quote/]As the number of digits tend toward infinity, the value tends toward one.[quote/]
how can you get close to something thats infinite , it never ends ... so how can you get close to never ending?, elaborate

deafpanda
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2904799  07/19/04 09:47 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


You can't get *close* per se, but you can get *closer*, as obviously 9.999 is closer to 10 than 9.99. Tend means get closer, not get close.
As I said, this is a crude form of representing a value. It is much better to say 100/3 than 33.3 recurring. It is just the form the number is in that is the problem, not the number itself. It is difficult to explain it any better.
As you say, maths is just man's map of numbers. There are way more incomprehensible branches of maths, like transfinite arithmetic (infinities are not all the same size, apparently). Infinity throws up paradoxes, which is one of the reasons I think the universe must be finite.

ferago2
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2904828  07/19/04 10:06 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Quote:
OOISI said: and if you say 33.3 reoccuring is a third of it ... your wrong thats a third of 99.9 reoccuring
this is some basic mathematics and we cannot comprehend it? and most of our knowledge is based on mathematics e.g. physics, chemistry ... there not based upon it but maths contributes a major part of what these subjects are composed of...
Umm. We have no problems expressing 100/3. At all. You're just used to base 10 numbers (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0). Base 10 is nice because we have 10 fingers and toes, and it's what we've all grown up with, but it's hardly the only numerical system, and not really the most useful. Computers operate in Binary, where everything is 1 or 0, so three is 11, four is 100, and so on. It's a bit difficult to explain different base numbers to people who haven't learned about them before, so I'm not going to, but I'm sure there are helpful webpages out there. As far as 33.33333continuous being an approximation of 100/3, it's not the best humans can do, or a sign of flaws in mathematics or anything along those lines. 100/3 cannot be written as a rational (non infinate) number in base 10. I can't do it, you can't do it, the evil greys who probe people who eat too many mushrooms can't do it, God himself can't do it. This is because of the rules of the system, not because of any mistake or flaw or gap in understanding.
HTH HAND

psyka
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2905471  07/19/04 03:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Quote:
OOISI said:
god created numbers, man created maths to understand numbers ... man cant fully comprehend the infinite .
Nature/God "created" (or rather; is) a geometrical Universe. Man created numbers to explain the nature of that geometry. Atleast thats my theory. I believe infinite is the boundary of our physical interpretation.
Quote:
deafpanda said:
"Infinity throws up paradoxes, which is one of the reasons I think the universe must be finite."
Think of an infinitely expanding fishtank,while the fishtank is expanding the contents inside are continuously trying to fill up the empty space. So yes it is finite, but at the same time limitless.
Edited by psyka (07/19/04 03:15 PM)

ld50negative1
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2905480  07/19/04 03:13 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Quote:
the law of the cosmos says everything has two sides which are the complete opposite (i.e. contradicting itself to exist) thus creating a third side (the third side is the meeting point of the opposites, but opposites never meet)
that's called duality and that's just an idea not a fact

metamind
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2905827  07/19/04 05:45 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


I'm with ferago2.
99.999... is only a decimal representation of 100/3, and is really only useful if you're using a calculator. You'll find that in pure mathematics, things are kept on a fractional level, since accuracy is not an issue that way, and it's much more simple and elegant.

metamind
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2905843  07/19/04 05:49 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


However, if you really want to explore potential "flaws" of mathematics, or any formal system for that matter, then you might consider looking up "Godel's Theorem."

MAGnum
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2905907  07/19/04 06:01 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Dude a third of 100 isn't possible to write in after a decimal point, that is why it is really written and makes full sence as 33 and 1/3
The flaw you speak of is caused by people trying to interperate fractions in 10ths, 100ths, 1000ths and so on.
The reason a third of 100 is considerred 33.3333333333 is because of people estimating and simplifying.
In some mathematical problems, the differance in this estimation is insignificant. Estimating can ruin everything so I personally think it's better to use exact numbers when you can

Huehuecoyotl
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2906021  07/19/04 06:36 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


"Are we really such an advanced race?"
You know of another species on this planet that can lay claim to this? I want to know about it.

kaiowas
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Re: open your mind [Re: daba]
#2906064  07/19/04 06:52 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


"Proof: .9 (repeating) = 1.
.9 (repeating) = .999 ... 9 ... = lim (n>inf) .999 ... 9 (n number of times) = lim (n>inf) (1  .000 ... 01 [n1 number of times]) = lim (n>inf) (1  1/10^n) = 1. ;; since (1/10^n) is a convergent geometric series"
here's another way
x=.9999999...
therfore 10x=9.9999999....
therfore 10xx= 9.999....9999...
simplify 9x=9
therefore x=1
 Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.senior doobie

Deiymiyan
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Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
#2906379  07/19/04 08:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Are we really such an advanced race? If we are so advanced how come we cant comprehend one third of one hundred? and if you say 33.3 reoccuring is a third of it ... your wrong thats a third of 99.9 reoccuring
Seeing that there exist some important gaps... Could it be, that things are NOT as connected as they are thought to be?
By opening up your mind, and still 'seeing'/ perceiving these 'gaps'... Could it mean, that we ARE NOT all One?
Could it be, that only after realizing such things, and becoming more humble, that the race shall, once again, be allowed to advance some important steps further?

Dei Gratia de integro,
Veni Vidi Vici:
In Nomine Domini..

daba
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Re: open your mind [Re: kaiowas]
#2906778  07/19/04 11:36 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Quote:
kaiowas said: here's another way
x=.9999999...
therfore 10x=9.9999999....
therfore 10xx= 9.999....9999...
simplify 9x=9
therefore x=1
I sense the humor, but in your proof, x equals 1 and also .9 (repeating). Thus, x equals .9 (repeating) because x cannot be 1.

daba
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Re: Why can't I understand this enigma? [Re: OOISI]
#2906785  07/19/04 11:38 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Quote:
OOISI said:
what you said is basically .9 reoccuring = 1.0 but you really didnt explain how!! the only way i can see is if you round it off, but thats cheating, isnt it!
I didn't explain how? I just showed you a explicit proof why .9 (repeating) = 1. Because you cannot comprehend it does not mean it is unsolved. "Rounding off" is not necessary to solve this problem, nor was it used in the proof. I used the properties of limits to solve the problem.
You have to have a basic understanding of geometric series and infinite limits. Do you? Then I can explain. If you don't, then pick up a calculus textbook and read it. Come back to me if you need further clarification.
Please study more mathematics before you jump to conclusions. Arithmetic and math you learned in grade school cannot solve what you demand.
Quote:
OOISI said:
Are we really such an advanced race?
Again, just because you do not consider yourself advanced (or those with whom you associate with, for that matter), does not mean the rest of humankind is on par with your mentality. Do not speak for all, please. A more appropriate title for this thread should be, "Why can't I understand this enigma?"
Edit: In fact, I shall do the hard work for you, twice now.
Edited by daba (07/19/04 11:51 PM)

d33p
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Re: Why can't I understand this enigma? [Re: OOISI]
#2906930  07/20/04 12:45 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Hey, daba is asian. Just listen to him fool, he's right.
 I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.
bang bang

daba
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Re: Why can't I understand this enigma? [Re: d33p]
#2907040  07/20/04 01:24 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) 


Quote:
d33p said: Hey, daba is asian. Just listen to him fool, he's right.
Word!

