Home | Community | Message Board


Marijuana Demystified
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineOOISI
Nothingness
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 474
Loc: S.Australia
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
open your mind
    #2904539 - 07/19/04 06:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Are we really such an advanced race?
if we are than how come mathematics (the main basis of our 'knowledge') has flaws??

If we are so advanced how come we cant comprehend one third of one hundred?

and if you say 33.3 re-occuring is a third of it ... your wrong thats a third of 99.9 re-occuring

this is some basic mathematics and we cannot comprehend it? and most of our knowledge is based on mathematics e.g. physics, chemistry ... there not based upon it but maths contributes a major part of what these subjects are composed of...

if most of mankind (industriously civilized) main sciences are based on this main science (maths; science of numbers) and this main basis for our advancement has such a simple flaw, than what makes us so sure most of our other 'knowledge' is so correct? what if all of our sciences have flaws like this ... that would make them obsolete wouldnt it? now wouldnt that be a shame? lol i exaggerate but consider this simple flaw in our "advanced" race (and no most of sciences are not obsolete i was j/k)

i know this is pretty damn OT and will get moved, but if you truly think we are so intelligent ... answer that problem.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinerepemon
journeyman
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 158
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2904563 - 07/19/04 06:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

We are not logical machines, like someone on this forum said. Are feelings accurate? :smile:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedaba
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2904586 - 07/19/04 07:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OOISI said:
Are we really such an advanced race?
if we are than how come mathematics (the main basis of our 'knowledge') has flaws??

If we are so advanced how come we cant comprehend one third of one hundred?

and if you say 33.3 re-occuring is a third of it ... your wrong thats a third of 99.9 re-occuring





A basic proof shall show you the answer. An elementary understanding of inifinite limits should be adequate for the answer to your grand flaw in mankind's foundation of understading.

If you cannot comprehend the answer, then do not speak on behalf of mankind. Mathematicians have developed many a method to cope with the enigma you stated. The subsequent comments regarding your dilemma simply aid in the exhibition of your ignorance.

Look at the title of your thread. It is called "open your mind." So please, follow your own instruction. You speak as if you are the only one on this rock. Because you are lacking in some department or the other, everyone must be lacking -- this is how you come across to me, which I find insulting. There are plenty of people who will understand me, and therefore understand the solution to what you deem as "man's incapability."

Proof: .9 (repeating) = 1.

.9 (repeating) = .999 ... 9 ...
= lim (n->inf) .999 ... 9 (n number of times)
= lim (n->inf) (1 - .000 ... 01 [n-1 number of times])
= lim (n->inf) (1 - 1/10^n) = 1. ;; since (1/10^n) is a convergent geometric series

Does that make sense to you? :alert:

Edit: Good. If it does, then logic will tell you why we have advanced in such a logarithmic pattern as of the last generation. You see, our mathematics is NOT flawed, and that is why we can advance at such an alarming rate. If such fundamental teachings were incorrect, then why does the airplane fly? Why does the rocket have the ability to shoot into outer space? Why can I type on this keyboard and look into this monitor?

Please think before you challenge.


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


Edited by daba (07/19/04 07:33 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOOISI
Nothingness
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 474
Loc: S.Australia
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
Re: open your mind [Re: daba]
    #2904625 - 07/19/04 08:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

humans with our technology bring a lot of flaws with our discoveries i.e. the pollution side of transportation

and if we are not logical machines why do we base our sciences on logics doesnt that just contradict itself?

how can 99.9 re occurring = 100.0... to me that statement contradicts itself

if something is infinite (reoccuring) IT NEVER ENDS meaning it will never distribute that 0.0(+infinite 0's)1 please elaborate how

what you said is basically .9 reoccuring = 1.0 but you really didnt explain how!! the only way i can see is if you round it off, but thats cheating, isnt it!

so if something reoccurs infinitely it eventually rounds off? thats basically what your saying , your just saying it with higher vocab

maths claims to have comprehended it not me, so i just stated it

god created numbers, man created maths to understand numbers ... man cant fully comprehend the infinite .

yes planes can fly, rockets shoot and comps work cause of maths, but the margin of error i pointed out, is the cause of them crashing every once a while :wink:

........

i have a science for you to my friend

the law of the cosmos says everything has two sides which are the complete opposite (i.e. contradicting itself to exist) thus creating a third side (the third side is the meeting point of the opposites, but opposites never meet)

you understand? good , thats what this post has proven  :grin:

so you think you can comprehend infinity? and simply at that!!! ...LOL you are the Almighty!!

ok maybe i wasnt open minded on peoples replies , but i knew theyd be contradicting my statement (how ironic)


Edited by OOISI (07/19/04 09:32 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2904715 - 07/19/04 09:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

0.9 recurring does not equal one.  As the number of digits tend toward infinity, the value tends toward one.

A third of one hundred is best expressed as 100/3.  33.3 recurring is a decimal representation of 100/3.  As the number of 3s you write increases, the value tends toward 100/3.  This is the best way to think about it, I know it is a bit counter-intuitive.

(99.9 recurring)/3 does not equal 33.3 recurring.  I can't remember what it does equal :smile:  Maybe 33.33333332 recurring?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOOISI
Nothingness
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 474
Loc: S.Australia
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
Re: open your mind [Re: deafpanda]
    #2904747 - 07/19/04 09:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

[quote/]As the number of digits tend toward infinity, the value tends toward one.[quote/]

how can you get close to something thats infinite , it never ends ... so how can you get close to never ending?, elaborate


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2904799 - 07/19/04 09:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You can't get *close* per se, but you can get *closer*, as obviously 9.999 is closer to 10 than 9.99. Tend means get closer, not get close.

As I said, this is a crude form of representing a value. It is much better to say 100/3 than 33.3 recurring. It is just the form the number is in that is the problem, not the number itself. It is difficult to explain it any better.

As you say, maths is just man's map of numbers. There are way more incomprehensible branches of maths, like transfinite arithmetic (infinities are not all the same size, apparently). Infinity throws up paradoxes, which is one of the reasons I think the universe must be finite.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineferago2
gnubie
Registered: 03/02/04
Posts: 136
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2904828 - 07/19/04 10:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OOISI said:
and if you say 33.3 re-occuring is a third of it ... your wrong thats a third of 99.9 re-occuring

this is some basic mathematics and we cannot comprehend it? and most of our knowledge is based on mathematics e.g. physics, chemistry ... there not based upon it but maths contributes a major part of what these subjects are composed of...




Umm. We have no problems expressing 100/3. At all. You're just used to base 10 numbers (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0). Base 10 is nice because we have 10 fingers and toes, and it's what we've all grown up with, but it's hardly the only numerical system, and not really the most useful. Computers operate in Binary, where everything is 1 or 0, so three is 11, four is 100, and so on. It's a bit difficult to explain different base numbers to people who haven't learned about them before, so I'm not going to, but I'm sure there are helpful webpages out there.
As far as 33.33333continuous being an approximation of 100/3, it's not the best humans can do, or a sign of flaws in mathematics or anything along those lines. 100/3 cannot be written as a rational (non infinate) number in base 10. I can't do it, you can't do it, the evil greys who probe people who eat too many mushrooms can't do it, God himself can't do it. This is because of the rules of the system, not because of any mistake or flaw or gap in understanding.

HTH HAND


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2905471 - 07/19/04 03:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OOISI said:
god created numbers, man created maths to understand numbers ... man cant fully comprehend the infinite .





Nature/God "created" (or rather; is) a geometrical Universe. Man created numbers to explain the nature of that geometry. Atleast thats my theory. I believe infinite is the boundary of our physical interpretation.

Quote:

deafpanda said:
"Infinity throws up paradoxes, which is one of the reasons I think the universe must be finite."




Think of an infinitely expanding fish-tank,while the fish-tank is expanding the contents inside are continuously trying to fill up the empty space. So yes it is finite, but at the same time limitless.


Edited by psyka (07/19/04 03:15 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2905480 - 07/19/04 03:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

the law of the cosmos says everything has two sides which are the complete opposite (i.e. contradicting itself to exist) thus creating a third side (the third side is the meeting point of the opposites, but opposites never meet)





that's called duality and that's just an idea not a fact


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemetamind
(FormerlyEnlightened)

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 47
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2905827 - 07/19/04 05:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm with ferago2.

99.999... is only a decimal representation of 100/3, and is really only useful if you're using a calculator. You'll find that in pure mathematics, things are kept on a fractional level, since accuracy is not an issue that way, and it's much more simple and elegant.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemetamind
(FormerlyEnlightened)

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 47
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2905843 - 07/19/04 05:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

However, if you really want to explore potential "flaws" of mathematics, or any formal system for that matter, then you might consider looking up "Godel's Theorem."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMAGnum
veteran

Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2905907 - 07/19/04 06:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dude a third of 100 isn't possible to write in after a decimal point, that is why it is really written and makes full sence as 33 and 1/3

The flaw you speak of is caused by people trying to interperate fractions in 10ths, 100ths, 1000ths and so on.

The reason a third of 100 is considerred 33.3333333333 is because of people estimating and simplifying.

In some mathematical problems, the differance in this estimation is insignificant. Estimating can ruin everything so I personally think it's better to use exact numbers when you can


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2906021 - 07/19/04 06:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"Are we really such an advanced race?"

You know of another species on this planet that can lay claim to this? I want to know about it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: open your mind [Re: daba]
    #2906064 - 07/19/04 06:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"Proof: .9 (repeating) = 1.

.9 (repeating) = .999 ... 9 ...
= lim (n->inf) .999 ... 9 (n number of times)
= lim (n->inf) (1 - .000 ... 01 [n-1 number of times])
= lim (n->inf) (1 - 1/10^n) = 1. ;; since (1/10^n) is a convergent geometric series"


:handth:


here's another way

x=.9999999...

therfore 10x=9.9999999....

therfore 10x-x= 9.999...-.9999...

simplify  9x=9

therefore  x=1

:grin: :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: open your mind [Re: OOISI]
    #2906379 - 07/19/04 08:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Are we really such an advanced race?
If we are so advanced how come we cant comprehend one third of one hundred?
and if you say 33.3 re-occuring is a third of it ... your wrong thats a third of 99.9 re-occuring



Seeing that there exist some important gaps... Could it be, that things are NOT as connected as they are thought to be?

By opening up your mind, and still 'seeing'/ perceiving these 'gaps'... Could it mean, that we ARE NOT all One?


Could it be, that only after realizing such things, and becoming more humble, that the race shall, once again, be allowed to advance some important steps further?


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedaba
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: open your mind [Re: kaiowas]
    #2906778 - 07/19/04 11:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
here's another way

x=.9999999...

therfore 10x=9.9999999....

therfore 10x-x= 9.999...-.9999...

simplify  9x=9

therefore  x=1

:grin: :wink:




I sense the humor, but in your proof,  x equals 1 and also .9 (repeating). Thus, x equals .9 (repeating) because x cannot be 1.


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedaba
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Why can't I understand this enigma? [Re: OOISI]
    #2906785 - 07/19/04 11:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OOISI said:
what you said is basically .9 reoccuring = 1.0 but you really didnt explain how!! the only way i can see is if you round it off, but thats cheating, isnt it!





I didn't explain how? I just showed you a explicit proof why .9 (repeating) = 1. Because you cannot comprehend it does not mean it is unsolved. "Rounding off" is not necessary to solve this problem, nor was it used in the proof. I used the properties of limits to solve the problem.

You have to have a basic understanding of geometric series and infinite limits. Do you? Then I can explain. If you don't, then pick up a calculus textbook and read it. Come back to me if you need further clarification.

Please study more mathematics before you jump to conclusions. Arithmetic and math you learned in grade school cannot solve what you demand.

Quote:

OOISI said:
Are we really such an advanced race?





Again, just because you do not consider yourself advanced (or those with whom you associate with, for that matter), does not mean the rest of humankind is on par with your mentality. Do not speak for all, please. A more appropriate title for this thread should be, "Why can't I understand this enigma?"

Edit: In fact, I shall do the hard work for you, twice now.


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


Edited by daba (07/19/04 11:51 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Why can't I understand this enigma? [Re: OOISI]
    #2906930 - 07/20/04 12:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey, daba is asian. Just listen to him fool, he's right.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedaba
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Why can't I understand this enigma? [Re: d33p]
    #2907040 - 07/20/04 01:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Hey, daba is asian. Just listen to him fool, he's right.




Word! :grin:


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Being Open Minded
( 1 2 all )
gettinjiggywithit 2,650 35 02/11/05 07:17 PM
by Sinbad
* Magic: gullibility vs. open mind vs. intellect
( 1 2 all )
Swami 2,194 37 12/18/05 02:34 AM
by Huehuecoyotl
* The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy
( 1 2 all )
SneezingPenis
1,893 34 04/21/06 11:32 AM
by RedNucleus
* Calling all open minded people
( 1 2 all )
palmersc 2,081 30 07/28/08 09:55 PM
by blewmeanie
* Open Mind / Closed Mind
( 1 2 3 all )
OrgoneConclusion 1,734 45 04/26/09 06:24 PM
by learningtofly
* Open mind vs evidence and reason
( 1 2 all )
AdrianPsy 1,573 30 03/05/09 05:40 PM
by Icelander
* Open-Minded OrgoneConclusion 1,606 14 09/16/07 06:39 AM
by ZShroom
* enter=open minded? hah! spud 521 4 05/21/03 02:58 PM
by Anonymous

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
1,451 topic views. 0 members, 7 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Edabea
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.076 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.