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OfflineMiscusi
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Religion.. a set of controls?
    #2904144 - 07/19/04 01:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Have you ever considered the fact that religion is nothing but a set of controls to keep one in line. I mean if you read the bible, the koran or any holy book. They all have a set of rules.. one must follow to obtain ever lasting life or what not. For example, christianity, The ten commandments.. Im sure you atleast know them or some of them even if you are not christian. But think about it.. Whats a better way to keep people in line, except to tell them if they sin they are going to burn in a place of eternal fire...?

Thoughts? anyone?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: Miscusi]
    #2904175 - 07/19/04 02:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There is an element of this to some religions. Most modern religions (except fundementalist ones) avoid this perception now...that was back in the day (middle ages) when those ideas flourished to gain political power for the church.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: Miscusi]
    #2904182 - 07/19/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

We have been very effective at transering these controls over to "politics". Both religion and politics are creations of humans...and carry the flaws of humans within them :wink:


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: Miscusi]
    #2904195 - 07/19/04 02:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There is a need for some rules, but shit like abstinance of sex is simply lame. Same with unfounded claims Christians have against drugs. So if my body is a holy temple let there be a holy mushroom within it.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: Miscusi]
    #2904204 - 07/19/04 02:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Nothing but" ? NOTHING BUT?? Is that all you see? If left to our own undisciplined, self-centered, desire-based motives, humankind would not only fail to struggle to transcend our mammalian tendencies, but we would regress to less-than-human beings. Without Compassion as our central identity, we ARE less than human - we are "Centauric" beings (to use a term by Ken Wilbur) - animals from the waist down. Worse and unlike mere mammals, we wax demonic.

Every Sura of the Qu'ran begins with "Allah -the Compassionate, the Merciful." The primary metaphysic of Christianity - the very Essential Being of GOD is "Love" (1 John 4:8) - which means that Ultimate Reality=GOD=Love. The central Sephira of Jewish Kabbala is 'Tiphereth' - Beauty and Compassion.

All you see is control? I see instruction, direction, teaching, counseling, guidance...without which all of humanity goes straight to Hell - in this life and the ones that follow death. Now, there are, and have been terrible abuses of religion at the hands of men (not women for the most part) - but the Truth in religions comes from GOD, not men, and we all have to be smart enough to Know the difference, and so be Transfigured by Truth.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMiscusi
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2904210 - 07/19/04 02:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

All i asked for was your thoughts, Thank you. I respect everyones view, as i wish them to respect mine.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: Miscusi]
    #2904233 - 07/19/04 02:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How did MarkostheGnostic show you disrespect...by answering your question eloquently. You imply you were shown disrespect, but all, I see is respect.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: MAGnum]
    #2904246 - 07/19/04 02:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MAGnum said:
There is a need for some rules, but shit like abstinance of sex is simply lame. Same with unfounded claims Christians have against drugs. So if my body is a holy temple let there be a holy mushroom within it.




When most "religious laws" were created, not much was understood about the risks of drugs and sex...but it was obvious that sometimes drugs killed you, and sometimes sex killed you. Both could do very nasty things to you even if they didn't kill you, so the guys writing the laws said promiscuity was evil and so was substance use. You can't blame them, they did not know why bad things happened in each case...only what the most immediate causes were.

Of course things should be very different these days, we understand much more and so are able (in there) to protect ourselves from STD's and negative drug effects (especially overdoses). We have the potential to educate ourselves on safety.


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OfflineMiscusi
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: trendal]
    #2904318 - 07/19/04 03:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I was not implying that i felt disrespected, I was only stating how i feel, I did not disagree with his view, and respect it., and thanking those who shared there views.


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: Miscusi]
    #2904437 - 07/19/04 04:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Miscusi said:
Have you ever considered the fact that religion is nothing but a set of controls to keep one in line. I mean if you read the bible, the koran or any holy book. They all have a set of rules.. one must follow to obtain ever lasting life or what not. For example, christianity, The ten commandments.. Im sure you atleast know them or some of them even if you are not christian. But think about it.. Whats a better way to keep people in line, except to tell them if they sin they are going to burn in a place of eternal fire...?

Thoughts? anyone?




Duh.

The government was made to control man's physical actions. You kill someone, and you will face the consequences. Religion was made to control man's mental actions. You don't believe the way we do and you'll burn in hell.

You should feature to find quick answers to your inquiries. It works wonders, you know.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: Miscusi]
    #2904478 - 07/19/04 04:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Have you ever considered the fact that religion is nothing but a set of controls to keep one in line.

Yes, along with probably every other person on the planet. It's definately not a novel idea. The real question in my mind is, "Does your average person actually require this type of coercion, phony as it may be, to operate as a responsible member of society?" Sadly, the answer I have come to is yes.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: Miscusi]
    #2904888 - 07/19/04 10:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Have you ever considered the fact that religion is nothing but a set of controls to keep one in line.

Have you ever considered the fact that the internet is nothing but a set of controls to keep one on line.


It's all in your head !!!!!



But sometimes you control it, sometimes you don't ...



Then i considered the fact that reality is nothing but a set of controls to keep me alive.

MAIA


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Religion.. a set of controls? [Re: Miscusi]
    #2905111 - 07/19/04 12:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

...And I expressed no disrespect to you - if that clears things up a bit. Perhaps what was discerned, was my continued surprise (not directed at you specifically) that yet another person seems only to see the negative side of a major force in humanity - namely, religion. C.G. Jung wrote:

"Religion, as the Latin word denotes, is a careful and scrupulous observation of what Rudolf Otto aptly termed the ' numinosum,' that is, a dynamic existence or effect, not caused by an arbitrary act of will. On the contrary, it seizes and controls the human subject, which is always rather its victim than its creator...The numinosum is either a quality of a visible object or  the influence of an invisible presence causing an alteration in consciousness."  (italics mine) Psychology & Religion, p. 4

The 'Religious Experiences' of certain notable individuals such as Jesus, Buddha, Muhammed or Lao Tzu, for example, 'constellated' listeners, followers around themselves. These particular individuals were energized by the " invisible presence" named above, and eventually their followers began to write down the words and personal histories about them. Unfortunately, most of the reports came from an oral tradition passed down for years, not by eye-witnesses of the founders. Moreover, the reporters/recorders often had agendas of their own. Those agendas are what became the bases for the rituals and traditions that grew around the original Religious Experience of the founder, and which began as a means to preserve the Experience but which eventually encrusted those Holy Experiences with false doctrines intended to re-interpret the words of the founder, and rituals and traditions set up to maintain those false doctrines - always in the service of power and control.

Roman Catholicism and much of Sunni and Shiite Islam have been demonstrating this process for centuries with crusades, jihads, inquisitions, heresy hunters and genocide. If these are what you are identifying with religion then you have my 100% agreement. But, we do not have to look at the s**t-encrusted externals of religion and see Only that, anymore than we should judge people by the clothes they wear or the color of their skin (or a book by it cover :smile:  ).  The "numinosum" is THE Experience. It is described variously in various traditions - filtered through culture, previous religious tradition, personal capacities for understanding and other variables. Sometimes, Entheogens can "occasion" a glimpse of The Experience. Sometimes The Experience results in various religious conversions, which makes the convert a 'mystic' or a 'gnostic' adherent of a religion. There are a few of us at the Shroomery.

Religion is not always a bad thing. Sometimes it is Pure Radiance in a person's life.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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