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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known?
    #2901926 - 07/18/04 10:49 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'd like for this thread to be about America's track record in the fates of the countries that America has meddled in.

Which ones are better off and which ones went to shit because of America?

How is Panama doing now approximately 20 years after we relieved them of Mr. Noriega?

How about the Phillipines? Do they have enough shoes?

Or the old Soviet sattelites?


Just pick one and go with it.


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2901942 - 07/18/04 10:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

soviet sattelites? care ot explain that one?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: shriek]
    #2901963 - 07/18/04 11:12 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What part of it needs clarifying?


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2901969 - 07/18/04 11:19 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

what ytou mean? you mean that usa designed them? i dont know anything about it anyways i just didnt understand where you was going with that one.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: shriek]
    #2901986 - 07/18/04 11:30 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Not space sattelites, I'm talking about all the countries that used to be (unwillingly) members of the Soviet union that have now gained their independance.


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2901992 - 07/18/04 11:33 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

ok gotcha
yeah but that cannot usa alone take responsibility for ?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: shriek]
    #2901997 - 07/18/04 11:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Is there anything that America can take lone responsibility for?


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2902022 - 07/18/04 11:56 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

well i do think its important if we are gonna talk about americas track list that we talk about those things america are in charge of and not say that things that the UN or the NATO (to take an example im not talkin about the situation in old soviet now) does is a part of americas tracklist when its really a part of the "international community" tracklist.


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2902029 - 07/18/04 12:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

here is one i think usa is alone responsible for, the drug on war, specially in south america. have it benefit colombia or bolivia? i will not say so


ok i have been kind of negative towards america latly (not you guys only your gov) so im gonna take another example a more positive one,
my country has benefitet on americas policy for years (im norwegian) in buisness and more. so have most of the western world. But this goes more on buisness and oil than anything else. USAs way to run buisness has benefitet the world greatly. Same with technology. And another thing we in norway are making hillarious huge amounts with money on is americas involvment in the middle east. We are a oil nation and when the oil prices has went up like they have we are getting richer and richer,. so usa benefits me as a individual in many ways.


Edited by shriek (07/18/04 12:29 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: shriek]
    #2902182 - 07/18/04 01:18 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Don't Colombia or Bolivia have some say in the matter?


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2902204 - 07/18/04 01:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

of course, but well i think that you can get many answers to that there. i think it will depends on who you ask. the goverment there or the people who lives up in the mountains.


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OfflineJPZ
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2904344 - 07/19/04 03:14 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:


How about the Phillipines? Do they have enough shoes?






:lol:


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OfflineJPZ
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever known? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2904373 - 07/19/04 03:25 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Panama.  :thumbup:
Colombia.  A mess.
Bolivia.  Ditto
Chile.  Still mighty pissed about the whole CIA/Pinochet thing.  One of the best economies in L America though.  (which isn't saying much)
Nicaragua.  :thumbdown:
Guatemala.  :thumbdown:
El Salvador.  :thumbdown:
Argentina.  :thumbdown:
Cuba.  :thumbdown:
Mexico.  :thumbup: :thumbdown:


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"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up."


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever kno [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2906953 - 07/20/04 12:55 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

many of the sattelites are far worse off now, because they have falled to dicatorship kleptocracies who do not give anything to their populations.

Azerbaijan -  :thumbdown:


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever kno [Re: Positronius]
    #2910184 - 07/20/04 10:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

mmm industrialization.... .. . . . .


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever kno [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2910713 - 07/21/04 01:02 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

We have freed a lot of people on this earth, more than every other nation combined. Once those people are free, it is really up to them. We have also done a lot of things that have pissed people off along the way.

The main reason for past "bad" behavior is the Cold War. The Soviets would try to prop up a corrupt regime, and we would try to prop up a corrupt regime of our own. It was a nessesary evil if you will. Had the Soviets been able to win the cold war, the world would be much worse off.

Now that we have defeated the Soviet Union, our international policy has a much higher moral clarity. Take Iraq for instance. We are fighting right now to free the Iraqi people and install democracy. That is a great and noble goal any way you look at it. When we get some time and distance from this current event, I can't see how history could ever look down at what we are doing today.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever kno [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2910728 - 07/21/04 01:07 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Depends on how it all turns out.

If Iraq goes to shit now history will look back on this as a huge mistake.


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OfflineJPZ
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever kno [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2910801 - 07/21/04 01:29 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I really fail to see how it could turn out right. Seems to me that the middle east is destined to be fucked up for at least another century. Then it will be some other regions turn. Probably Africa. Or any place with a serious water shortage. eg pretty much the whole world.

The US kicked out the most secular leader in the Middle East. They killed a lot of civillians. Their soldiers conduct is unacceptable in many cases ("its war!" they cry. gimme a break) They have installed a (temporary) puppet govt. The first completely uninfluenced election is gonna lead to some absolutely anti-US religious fanatic getting elected. The US should have stuck to its hunt for al-Qaeda.

How will Bush be remembered? The president who made lots of mistakes while giving speeches.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever kno [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2911435 - 07/21/04 08:27 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"Now that we have defeated the Soviet Union, our international policy has a much higher moral clarity"

Rhetorically perhaps that is signalled, but what about in reality?

Besides wasn't beating the 'evil commie red bastards' easily as far up on the moral high ground as removing a secular dictator who breaks less UN resolutions then Sharon?

Everything is just presented in biblical terms, in anti-terrorist terms, in moral terms - it helps make it sound like God's work is being done and the good news is being spread.

It is however, absolute rubbish. Keeping the global power status quo is the only real objective. And anything that needs to be said or done to achieve this for as long as possible will be carried out.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: America: the greatest lesser evil the world has ever kno [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2911445 - 07/21/04 08:37 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

We are fighting right now to free the Iraqi people and install democracy. That is a great and noble goal any way you look at it.




You are fighting to secure control of an area of land which will be the most valuable piece of land on the face of the planet sometime in the next 10-30 years when we begin the downward journey to no more oil. Or is it just coincidental that Iraq is sat on one of the largest oil reserves left on the planet and the US is trying to move in?


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